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The Manchester United Thread XV

OP

Since signing for Manchester City in August 2011, Sergio Agüero has 56 goals & 23 assists in 93 games. In the same period, Wayne Rooney has 59 goals and 32 assists in 96 games.

He has had a great career so far but you cant help but feel a little disappointed. He could have been so much more! I think due to Ronaldo, Rooney suffered. He was forced out to the wing and other positions to accomodate Ronaldo. Fergie curbed the fire inside of Rooney aswell, i preferred the Rooney of old who was agressive and played with fire in his belly. He used to blast past players and with power and those rocket shots (the goal against Newcastle was glorious).

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Reply 3981

Juan Mata

Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce

He has had a great career so far but you cant help but feel a little disappointed. He could have been so much more! I think due to Ronaldo, Rooney suffered. He was forced out to the wing and other positions to accomodate Ronaldo. Fergie curbed the fire inside of Rooney aswell, i preferred the Rooney of old who was agressive and played with fire in his belly. He used to blast past players and with power and those rocket shots (the goal against Newcastle was glorious).

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Agree to an extent, but I think he's underrated now and overrated when looking back. He's a different player now because he's had to change his style as you said, but arguably more efficient. The years when everyone talks about him being exciting (04-05, 05-06, 06-07) he got 41 goals in 100 games, and more assists too I'm sure. In his last 3 seasons he's got 56 in 90. And he was more exciting back then, but also less reliable.

Someone posted a video a few days ago of him at Euro 2004, his best international tournament. He kept losing the ball. Poor first touches, sloppy passing etc. But in England we overhype young players that appear from nowhere and excite us, then jump on the bandwagon against them at the first sign of decline.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 3982

WeOnlyLiveOnce

OP

14

Original post by Juan Mata

Agree to an extent, but I think he's underrated now and overrated when looking back. He's a different player now because he's had to change his style as you said, but arguably more efficient. The years when everyone talks about him being exciting (04-05, 05-06, 06-07) he got 41 goals in 100 games, and more assists too I'm sure. In his last 3 seasons he's got 56 in 90. And he was more exciting back then, but also less reliable.

Someone posted a video a few days ago of him at Euro 2004, his best international tournament. He kept losing the ball. Poor first touches, sloppy passing etc. But in England we overhype young players that appear from nowhere and excite us, then jump on the bandwagon against them at the first sign of decline.

Yeah fair enough but then again that was a young Rooney. Imagine he kept progressing in that style, we would have had such an explosive talent. I believe he was less relaible due to age not style, well thats my opinion. Although, Rooney will go down as one of the greatest talents England have produced.

Fully agree on the last part. Remember when Townsend had an amazing game in an England shirt, people were hyping him left right centre :rofl:

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Reply 3983

SirMasterKey

18

Original post by Rk2k14

An example of Ronaldo training would be Ferdinand's comment on how Ronaldo was the first one at training, and the last to leave.

Not sure how literal that is. I'm pretty sure that the same thing was said about Giggs? Unless they arrived and left together they can't both have been first and last to leave. Pretty sure it is used as an expression for players who work very hard everyday in training and are one of the first there and last to leave.

Leaves an intersting question actually. Who was the last player to arrive to training and first to leave? :holmes:

Reply 3984

Dirtybit

20

AS Monaco are still interested in signing Rooney:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/wayne-rooney/11144856/Monaco-drop-largest-hint-yet-that-they-are-determined-to-take-Manchester-United-captain-Wayne-Rooney-to-France.html

The answer to our prayers.....

We should sell him and RVP in the near future and build our forwards around Pacey attacking players, preferably German too :coma:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 3985

Kenan and Kel

19

I'd only be okay with Rooney leaving if Rafael is made captain. Or Jones. Or De Gea.

Reply 3986

doobucks

16

Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce

Fully agree on the last part. Remember when Townsend had an amazing game in an England shirt, people were hyping him left right centre :rofl:

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I said that the hype would die down in jan and it did. :sogood:

Original post by Juan Mata

Someone posted a video a few days ago of him at Euro 2004, his best international tournament. He kept losing the ball. Poor first touches, sloppy passing etc. But in England we overhype young players that appear from nowhere and excite us, then jump on the bandwagon against them at the first sign of decline.
Agree, it's just hipster to hate on Rooney tbh. I was of the line of dropping him as I thought you'd play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, now you're playing the diamond then as long as Rooney plays as the striker then he's the first name on the teamsheet.

09-10 Rooney was his best, 11/12 was good as well but he started to lose a small bit of his pace then. Still believe that he disrupted the balance of the team and isn't good enough to build a system around, but with Mata in the hole and Rooney up front with somebody else negates that problem.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 3987

Rk2k14

17

Original post by Kenan and Kel

I'd only be okay with Rooney leaving if Rafael is made captain. Or Jones. Or De Gea.

Its only a matter of time Madrid go for De Gea. I'm scared :frown:

Reply 3988

Rk2k14

17

Keane's autobiography went on sale yesterday (accidentally) at a local Tesco. Damn, I could have got it and shared some juicy stuff with you guys :biggrin:

Reply 3989

Manchester United

18

Original post by Juan Mata

Agree to an extent, but I think he's underrated now and overrated when looking back. He's a different player now because he's had to change his style as you said, but arguably more efficient. The years when everyone talks about him being exciting (04-05, 05-06, 06-07) he got 41 goals in 100 games, and more assists too I'm sure. In his last 3 seasons he's got 56 in 90. And he was more exciting back then, but also less reliable.

Someone posted a video a few days ago of him at Euro 2004, his best international tournament. He kept losing the ball. Poor first touches, sloppy passing etc. But in England we overhype young players that appear from nowhere and excite us, then jump on the bandwagon against them at the first sign of decline.

That exactly. Ronaldo and Messi used to pick the ball up at the half way line and run around players for fun. They now understand that it's usually more productive to look for a pass and get into an attacking position. They've essentially optimised efficiency (although one could argue that some of Ronaldo's free-kicks are not efficient). Rooney has done the same but to a lesser extent. He understands that charging around the pitch isn't worth the effort unless the rest of the team joins in.

Players like Hazard, Januzaj and Sterling have a long way to go in terms of efficiency - which is expected. I think it's something that comes with experience. I think Bale has become so much more efficient at Real Madrid. He seems to understand when to pass (when Ronaldo and Benzema are in a good position) and when to shoot.

Reply 3990

doobucks

16

Hazard has become much more efficient the past season. He offers a different dimension to the team. He's not really a Ronaldo like finisher so he's not going to be hitting 30 yard rockets regularly like Bale/Ronaldo and Mourinho's tactics require him to track back a lot so he's not as effective attacking wise when he's playing as an auxiliary LB. Like Messi does nowadays Hazard conserves his high intensity sprints in an attacking sense which is why you often see him slow down the play if there is no space in behind and wait for support. Hazard doesn't often get into a goalscoring position(due to tactics) but when he does he will score. If anything Hazard is like the Messi who played at RW(not as good ofc)

Sterling well he'd be more efficient if he could finish like Aguero, simple as that he misses too many sitters and/or takes a touch too many instead of shooting. His general play has little to no problems. Sterling has to drop deep and run at players because if he doesn't how will he receive the ball when Gerrard and co are being pressed?

Januzaj or Willian are better comparisons.

Original post by Juan Mata

Since signing for Manchester City in August 2011, Sergio Agüero has 56 goals & 23 assists in 93 games. In the same period, Wayne Rooney has 59 goals and 32 assists in 96 games.

Bare in mind that Sergio Agüero has had problems with his fitness. If you were to go via goals and assists per 90mins King Agüero would blow Rooney out the water.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 3991

YoungAdviser

2

Original post by jam277

If you were to go via goals and assists per 90mins King Agüero would blow Rooney out the water.

Aguero (6482): Scores every 115 minutes, Assists every 281 minutes, combined every 82 minutes
Rooney (7799): Scores every 132 minutes, Assists every 243 minutes, combined every 85 minutes

Awkward.

There are issues comparing how often players score like that's people who come on late (Hernandez) or those with poor fitness and go off early are likely to look better. You seem to imply that Agueros fitness should be taken into account, if it was it would actually make him look worse, given when he scored ans gets taken off when City are doing fine, Rooney isnt6 being taken off, therefore Agueros stats look better on a minutes played basis.

Whichever way you look at it, in any way, Rooney is right up there with Aguero, even more-so when you consider position and role differences, no point being ignorant about it.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 3992

doobucks

16

Original post by YoungAdviser

Aguero (6482): Scores every 115 minutes, Assists every 281 minutes, combined every 82 minutes
Rooney (7799): Scores every 132 minutes, Assists every 243 minutes, combined every 85 minutes

Awkward.

There are issues comparing how often players score like that's people who come on late (Hernandez) or those with pootr fitness and go off early are likely to look better.

Whichever way you look at it, in any way, Rooney is right up there with Aguero, even more-so when you consider position and role differences, no point being ignorant about it.

Fair play I guess. Didn't expect Rooney's per 90 to be so good. Was more thinking of just goals in general where Aguero does better per 90. Even though I said assists thought that would have been around the same.

But regardless Rooney's contribution has been good. can't argue.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 3993

WeOnlyLiveOnce

OP

14

Original post by Rk2k14

Its only a matter of time Madrid go for De Gea. I'm scared :frown:

He will never join Real Madrid. His grandfather is an Atletico supporter and so are his parents. The liklihood of him joining RM is the liklihood of Giggs joining City. It never happend and im certain it wont happen with DDG

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Reply 3994

So Instinct

20

Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce

He will never join Real Madrid. His grandfather is an Atletico supporter and so are his parents. The liklihood of him joining RM is the liklihood of Giggs joining City. It never happend and im certain it wont happen with DDG

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Not really that simple and still happens often.

E.g. LFC have players in their team who grew up supporting Everton, famous ones being Steve McManaman, Fowler, Owen (who's father also played for Everton), Gerrard (who has pictures as a child in a Everton kit) and Carragher (who to this day still has Everton shares), more current would be Lallana.

Reply 3995

WeOnlyLiveOnce

OP

14

Original post by So Instinct

Not really that simple and still happens often.

E.g. LFC have players in their team who grew up supporting Everton, famous ones being Steve McManaman, Fowler, Owen (who's father also played for Everton), Gerrard (who has pictures as a child in a Everton kit) and Carragher (who to this day still has Everton shares), more current would be Lallana.

Agree that its not that simple but none of those players played for Everton before joining Liverpool. DDG is Atletico through and through and played for them before he moved to United. Its unlikely he'll want to play for Real.

Reply 3996

sevchenko

15

Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce

Agree that its not that simple but none of those players played for Everton before joining Liverpool. DDG is Atletico through and through and played for them before he moved to United. Its unlikely he'll want to play for Real.

Doubt that's true tbh he's never said he wouldn't ever play for Real. It's pretty hard to resist the lure of being future number 1 for Real Madrid and Spain, they're an Spanish footballing institution bit like Bayern.

Reply 3997

Juan Mata

Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce

He will never join Real Madrid. His grandfather is an Atletico supporter and so are his parents. The liklihood of him joining RM is the liklihood of Giggs joining City. It never happend and im certain it wont happen with DDG

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Giggs was at City brah

Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce

Agree that its not that simple but none of those players played for Everton before joining Liverpool. DDG is Atletico through and through and played for them before he moved to United. Its unlikely he'll want to play for Real.

If Real want him, they'll get him.

Original post by jam277

I said that the hype would die down in jan and it did. :sogood:

The Townsend hype was absolutely ridiculous, everyone calling for him to go to the World Cup etc. I would say i'm glad it's gone away, but as soon as some young English winger has 1 good game, he'll be talked about as the English Gareth Bale.