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Could Socialism work in the UK?

Sorry if this has been asked before but I was curious as to how Socialism could work in the UK and benefit everybody (big business and the people?) I like the idea of heavily taxing BIG businesses and using this money to help the poorer people, invest in NHS, schools etc. However, I do not see how this could work? Since, business could just leave the UK and operate elsewhere, meaning we lose their business. (Sorry if this is a stupid question! I'm just curious! :colondollar:)

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It was tried, and failed miserably. You sound like a child who is new to politics and is now going through the salutary left-wing phase that most young people go through.

Don't worry, you'll get over it soon enough.
Original post by The Dictator
It was tried, and failed miserably. You sound like a child who is new to politics and is now going through the salutary left-wing phase that most young people go through.

Don't worry, you'll get over it soon enough.


Well said !!
Original post by The Dictator
It was tried, and failed miserably. You sound like a child who is new to politics and is now going through the salutary left-wing phase that most young people go through.

Don't worry, you'll get over it soon enough.


lol, fair enough :s-smilie:

so, what are your opinions? because mainstream government doesn't seem to benefit people equally..
Original post by Toxic_Legends
lol, fair enough :s-smilie:

so, what are your opinions? because mainstream government doesn't seem to benefit people equally..


The government's job is not to arbitrarily re-arrange the way the world works just so everyone can have their slice of the pie. It is the government's job to defend people's right to life, liberty, property and self-ownership. Not to hand them free goodies.
Socialism is an ambiguous term.

Communism would work by buying said businesses with tax money and borrowed money.
The state-owned businesses would then proceed to produce everything for free in a money-less system. It would be free because everyone would be 'paid' by the produce of the industry.


^^^It'd be a devastating socio-economic upheaval.

Socialism can work, easily. Communism? Maybe not.
Original post by The Dictator
The government's job is not to arbitrarily re-arrange the way the world works just so everyone can have their slice of the pie. It is the government's job to defend people's right to life, liberty, property and self-ownership. Not to hand them free goodies.


Of course 'its not their job' is not the same as 'it can't be done'.
Original post by RayApparently
Of course 'its not their job' is not the same as 'it can't be done'.


Which it can't. Because all previous attempts have been miserable failures and have ended up impoverishing the people at large. The very people they were meant to help.
Original post by The Dictator
Which it can't. Because all previous attempts have been miserable failures and have ended up impoverishing the people at large. The very people they were meant to help.


But the OP highlights a crucial difference between those attempts and the future. In the UK, where we have massively advanced infrastructure and institutions like the NHS and welfare state already in place it is easily conceivable that Socialism (no Communism per say) could work here.

After all, many things were considered impossible (heavier than air flight, emancipation of the slaves, UKIP winning a national election)... before they were done.
Original post by RayApparently
But the OP highlights a crucial difference between those attempts and the future. In the UK, where we have massively advanced infrastructure and institutions like the NHS and welfare state already in place it is easily conceivable that Socialism (no Communism per say) could work here.

After all, many things were considered impossible (heavier than air flight, emancipation of the slaves, UKIP winning a national election)... before they were done.


The past can help to explain the future. And what we know throughout human history is that we are all at heart self-interested individuals. As such, the only logical expression of humanity will be a capitalist-type society, not a socialist-type one. For one thing, it is very unlikely that people will voluntarily pay for the well-being of all, and it would be downright honest to suggest that perhaps this socialist paradise you wish for could only be implemented through violence and extortion, which does little to put clear blue water between yourself and the feudal lords of old.
Original post by The Dictator
The past can help to explain the future.


I agree.

And what we know throughout human history is that we are all at heart self-interested individuals. As such, the only logical expression of humanity will be a capitalist-type society, not a socialist-type one. For one thing, it is very unlikely that people will voluntarily pay for the well-being of all, and it would be downright honest to suggest that perhaps this socialist paradise you wish for could only be implemented through violence and extortion, which does little to put clear blue water between yourself and the feudal lords of old.


Very little.


But it is possible.


Heck capitalism itself was on the verge of collapsing before Keynesian economics came around. I am confident we are yet to see the final version (or anywhere close to the final version) of society.
Original post by RayApparently
I agree.



Very little.


But it is possible.


Heck capitalism itself was on the verge of collapsing before Keynesian economics came around. I am confident we are yet to see the final version (or anywhere close to the final version) of society.


And Keynesian economics proved a washout too.
Original post by The Dictator
And Keynesian economics proved a washout too.


Errr... no.

You've heard of the global financial crisis right? It turns out monetarism can stab you in the back. Big time.
Original post by RayApparently
Errr... no.

You've heard of the global financial crisis right? It turns out monetarism can stab you in the back. Big time.


Wasn't pure monetarism. That was corporatism and a result of the use of quasi-Keynesian economics (Ponzi schemes, fiat currency etc) which led to inflation, boom and bust.
Original post by The Dictator
Wasn't pure monetarism. That was corporatism and a result of the use of quasi-Keynesian economics (Ponzi schemes, fiat currency etc) which led to inflation, boom and bust.


And it obviously wasn't pure Keynesianism either.

See the circles forming?
Original post by RayApparently
And it obviously wasn't pure Keynesianism either.

See the circles forming?



Pure Keynesianism would have been even worse.
Please just get rid of advertising and consumerism. I'll be happy at that point.
But yeah - a greater 'social' focus on equality would be great; more financial support for those who need it. Shouldn't be homeless people.
Original post by The Dictator
Pure Keynesianism would have been even worse.


That is massively debatable. Not to mention that Keynesianism saved capitalism after the WW2.
Keynesianism's fall from grace wasn't even due to a flaw in its logic, it was circumstance that 'neo-liberals' lept on.


Jeez, imagine a 100% free market. That's a thought to keep one up at night...


(loling at how this thread is just us debating)
Original post by hellodave5
Please just get rid of advertising and consumerism. I'll be happy at that point.
But yeah - a greater 'social' focus on equality would be great; more financial support for those who need it. Shouldn't be homeless people.


Might want to start with the folks at TSR. You realise that in merely using TSR you are advertising for it?
Original post by RayApparently
That is massively debatable. Not to mention that Keynesianism saved capitalism after the WW2.
Keynesianism's fall from grace wasn't even due to a flaw in its logic, it was circumstance that 'neo-liberals' lept on.


Jeez, imagine a 100% free market. That's a thought to keep one up at night...


(loling at how this thread is just us debating)


I wonder what that would be like :biggrin:

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