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SN1 reaction

i was told that the the ascending order of the compound undergo SN1 reaction is C6H5CH(Cl)CH3 < (CH3)3 CCl < C6H5C(CH3)2 Cl... it's a past year question . I am sure tha ans is correct. Can someone explain why? Generally , the most reactive is the compound (CH3)3 CCl , Am i right? this is because the (CH3)3 C+ is surrounded by three electron donating group , so it stabilise the carbonium ion formed.

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Reply 1
anyone can answer?
It looks to me like you've explained it yourself.

The least reactive compound has a Chlorine bounded to a carbon which is directly connected to a phenyl group. When the Chlorine is removed, the carbocation formed will be stabilised by the positive inductive effect of the phenyl ring and it's delocalised pi-system consisting of six electrons.

The second compound has the carbon bonded to three methyl groups. It will form a tertiary carbocation - a carbocation stabilised by the positive inductive effect of three methyl groups. This offers less stability than a phenyl group so this species would be more reactive.

The most reactive compound will produce a primary carbocation - a carbocation bounded to a single methyl group. The positive inductive effect here is smaller and therefore the carbocation is less stable and more reactive.
Reply 3
Original post by mobius323
It looks to me like you've explained it yourself.

The least reactive compound has a Chlorine bounded to a carbon which is directly connected to a phenyl group. When the Chlorine is removed, the carbocation formed will be stabilised by the positive inductive effect of the phenyl ring and it's delocalised pi-system consisting of six electrons.

The second compound has the carbon bonded to three methyl groups. It will form a tertiary carbocation - a carbocation stabillised by the positive inductive effect of three methyl groups. This offers less stability than a phenyl group so this species would be more reactive.

The most reactive compound will produce a primary carbocation - a carbocation bounded to a single methyl group. The positive inductive effect here is smaller and therefore the carbocation is less stable and more reactive.

for the C6H5C(CH3)2 Cl. , why the reactivity of SN 1 reaction is more reactive than (CH3)3 CCl ??? why u say that the phenyl exerts positive inductive effect? why the phenyl isn't exert negative inductive effect? since the pi electron will be delocalised into the benzene ring , making the partial positive charge on C atom more positive , so the reaction will go backward, the C6H5C(CH3)2 + ion react more likely with the nucelophile Cl- ...., thus making the reactivity lower......
(edited 9 years ago)
Positive inductive effect is the idea of electron density being fed towards a region of positive charge, thus stabilising it. 6 pi-electrons in a phenyl ring constitutes a large positive inductive effect.
Reply 5
Original post by mobius323
Positive inductive effect is the idea of electron density being fed towards a region of positive charge, thus stabilising it. 6 pi-electrons in a phenyl ring constitutes a large positive inductive effect.

What do you mean by electron density is being fed towards region of positive charge? What's the region of positivew charge?? i still cant understand why phenyl exerts POSITIVE inductive effect???
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 6
In an SN1 reaction the compound C6H5C(CH3)2 Cl forms the positively charged intermediate C6H5C(CH3)2+. The extra stabilisation of this intermediate provided by the phenyl ring, as described earlier, (compared to (CH3)3) makes its formation more favourable.
Reply 7
Original post by Kemmist
In an SN1 reaction the compound C6H5C(CH3)2 Cl forms the positively charged intermediate C6H5C(CH3)2+. The extra stabilisation of this intermediate provided by the phenyl ring, as described earlier, (compared to (CH3)3) makes its formation more favourable.

i still cant understand why phenyl exerts POSITIVE INDUCTIVE EFFECT ?????
Reply 8
Original post by mobius323
Positive inductive effect is the idea of electron density being fed towards a region of positive charge, thus stabilising it. 6 pi-electrons in a phenyl ring constitutes a large positive inductive effect.

the electron in the phenyl already delocalised into the benzene ring , how can it exerts POSITIVE INDUCTIVE EFFECT???
Reply 9
I think I understand now your confusion.

The positive inductive effect is used to describe the electron releasing effect of groups via sigma bonds. It's effect is usually explained by different groups on a phenyl ring. Hence the confusion (I think!). It doesn't have to be on a phenyl ring.

Ther phenyl group feeds electrons towards the positive charge on the carbon via the sigma bond therefore there is a positive inductive effect. It's an inductive effect FROM the phenyl TOWARDS the carbon atom. Remember this is where the + charge is, not on the ring. i.e. C6H5C+

Another way of thinking this. Imagine two phenyl bonded together via one bond. Each phenyl ring would have a positive inductive effect on the other, stabilising any positive charges formed on either ring.
Original post by Kemmist
I think I understand now your confusion.

The positive inductive effect is used to describe the electron releasing effect of groups via sigma bonds. It's effect is usually explained by different groups on a phenyl ring. Hence the confusion (I think!). It doesn't have to be on a phenyl ring.

Ther phenyl group feeds electrons towards the positive charge on the carbon via the sigma bond therefore there is a positive inductive effect. It's an inductive effect FROM the phenyl TOWARDS the carbon atom. Remember this is where the + charge is, not on the ring. i.e. C6H5C+

Another way of thinking this. Imagine two phenyl bonded together via one bond. Each phenyl ring would have a positive inductive effect on the other, stabilising any positive charges formed on either ring.

Do u mean the phenol is releasing electron to the positive charge C ?
Reply 11
Yes exactly ('phenyl').
Original post by Kemmist
Yes exactly ('phenyl').

So the phenyl can be electron donating and electron withdrawaing???? When to use electron donating or withdrawing??
Reply 13
Original post by wilson dang
So the phenyl can be electron donating and electron withdrawaing???? When to use electron donating or withdrawing??


When is it election withdrawing? Do you have an example?
Original post by Kemmist
When is it election withdrawing? Do you have an example?

Benzene ring as electron withdrawing group.... It withdrawing electron from COOH in benzoic acid, making strong acid .... So that o-h bond easier to break
Reply 15
Well done, good example!

This is not due though to a negative inductive effect.

Think about what forms when the acid looses the H+. What can happen to the resulting charge?
Reply 16
I think this induction effect is confusing things and leading us (or me) the wrong way.

The phenyl containing compound most readily reacts via SN1 because the resulting + ion is best stabilised.

Why is is best stabilised? The pi system of the phenyl ring can interact with carbon cation dispersing the the charge and stabilising it. This pi interaction is not an inductive effective, which uses sigma bonds. This is why phenyl gives greater stabilisation over CH3.

The pi electron system is also involved in the benzoic acid example you gave. it's effectively a 'charge disperser'.

I hope that makes more sense.
Original post by Kemmist
I think this induction effect is confusing things and leading us (or me) the wrong way.

The phenyl containing compound most readily reacts via SN1 because the resulting + ion is best stabilised.

Why is is best stabilised? The pi system of the phenyl ring can interact with carbon cation dispersing the the charge and stabilising it. This pi interaction is not an inductive effective, which uses sigma bonds. This is why phenyl gives greater stabilisation over CH3.

The pi electron system is also involved in the benzoic acid example you gave. it's effectively a 'charge disperser'.

I hope that makes more sense.

I still confused. Can you explain it in a more simple manner?
Reply 18
Original post by wilson dang
I still confused. Can you explain it in a more simple manner?


C6H5C(CH3)Cl is most likely to react via SN1 as it contains Ph and this is the best stabilising group/electron donator in C+ intermediate.

As you pointed out, Ph can act as electron donator with neighbouring + charge and electron withdrawer with neighbouring - charge.
Original post by Kemmist
C6H5C(CH3)Cl is most likely to react via SN1 as it contains Ph and this is the best stabilising group/electron donator in C+ intermediate.

As you pointed out, Ph can act as electron donator with neighbouring + charge and electron withdrawer with neighbouring - charge.

So , this is a special case which phenyl has more significant + inductive effect than - inductive effect?

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