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*Closed* - Work Experience and Voluntary Work [Part 1 of 2]
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Original post by theatrical
I would ask if you could shadow the FY1 or one of the SHOs on your consultant's firm - far more useful than sitting in on clinics or in theatre (both are usually a complete waste of time even for medical students); it'll give you an idea of what you'll actually be doing for the first 5 or so years after you graduate and, in my opinion, if you can talk about that in your PS and interviews it'll be quite impressive.
QFT
Original post by theatrical
I would ask if you could shadow the FY1 or one of the SHOs on your consultant's firm - far more useful than sitting in on clinics or in theatre (both are usually a complete waste of time even for medical students); it'll give you an idea of what you'll actually be doing for the first 5 or so years after you graduate and, in my opinion, if you can talk about that in your PS and interviews it'll be quite impressive.
I see you're a Manchester medic, I'm working at Wythenshawe and doing the shadowing.there
I hadn't considered asking that, but it sounds like an excellent idea so I'll see if I can sort it 
Most students mistakelnly try to learn medicine during their placements. This is not what you are there for, as there will be plenty of time for studying later. Instead pay attention to what doctors do and how this impacts on the doctor, patient and other members of the healthcare team. Interviewers expect a realistic understanding of medicine not somebody ready to work as a doctor.
Have fun
Have fun
Original post by theatrical
I would ask if you could shadow the FY1 or one of the SHOs on your consultant's firm - far more useful than sitting in on clinics or in theatre (both are usually a complete waste of time even for medical students)
Original post by digitalis
QFT
You guys don't like clinics? Why not? I find they are great for seeing cases, examining patients and observing management plans, and communications skills as well from the pre-med perspective. Repetitive sometimes, but what isn't?
Well done on getting this work experience man! Sounds awesome.
I really don't think you need to worry about really intricate details of the whole set-up. I think being able to recount what you learnt about the skills required to perform well in theatre is of most importance (team work, communication, patience etc). I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who got three days in a GP practice and two days in A&E as the entirety of their work experience, which was comparatively minimal when considering some people who did a good two months overall of work experience.
Still, have fun and I hope you enjoy your time there!
I really don't think you need to worry about really intricate details of the whole set-up. I think being able to recount what you learnt about the skills required to perform well in theatre is of most importance (team work, communication, patience etc). I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who got three days in a GP practice and two days in A&E as the entirety of their work experience, which was comparatively minimal when considering some people who did a good two months overall of work experience.
Still, have fun and I hope you enjoy your time there!
Some of my work experience also involved shadowing doctors into consultations and into theatre; my personal statement only contained a proper description from the former, nothing was mentioned regarding the surgeries themselves. To be fair, I've always felt that there isn't much that can be achieved from just shadowing. Of course, without a doubt, it gives you a brilliant insight but that's just about it... an insight. You're not given the opportunity to explore for yourself. It's like a linear quest in which you just follow a certain doctor for a two week period (dependent on how long you shadowed for). However, one role that I feel has really taught me a lot would have to be my voluntary role as a patient companion at my local hospital. It's incredibly basic; I clean up (the dishes, the patients' tables), get them tea and fresh water and finally, the two most important aspects, listening and observing. By asking them a simple question such as "How are you today *name*? Would you like a nice cup of tea?" I'd somehow end up chatting to them for the next hour and a half and they really open up to you. You meet so many different personalities and some of them have some astonishing stories, at times you truly realise how distressed and vulnerable some are. None of them want to be in a hospital (not because the staff are horrible or it's a generally bad environment) but because it's not home and nothing can replace that feeling of warmth and security. By merely just listening to them, I've learnt more about myself and the people I'll be treating on in the future; also, I've made sure that their stay is as comfortable and joyful as it can get. Finally, the act of observing. You know how there are some scenes in Scrubs in which J.D would just stand there and the world will just fast-forward around him. Well, it's somewhat like that. I'd see the patients laying in their beds, the nurses who would rush from one end to another (and I must say, they're honestly one of the most hard-working people I have ever seen and the things they do put so many occupations to shame), I'd watch the cleaners, the porters, the physiotherapists all doing their part and finally the doctors, treating their patients. One thing that made me truly sad and brought me down to Earth would be the fact I've always had a relatively distorted view of what a doctor does. I've always imagined that I'd have an infinite amount of time to just talk to my patients; to get to know them genuinely. But from what I've gathered, doctors just don't have the time.
Conclusion: What I'm trying to say is that a lot of these so called 'work experiences' tend to be static and linear. I suggest you find a voluntary role that's dynamic and would give you the opportunity to observe and listen. I wish you all the luck!
Conclusion: What I'm trying to say is that a lot of these so called 'work experiences' tend to be static and linear. I suggest you find a voluntary role that's dynamic and would give you the opportunity to observe and listen. I wish you all the luck!
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by nexttime
You guys don't like clinics? Why not? I find they are great for seeing cases, examining patients and observing management plans, and communications skills as well from the pre-med perspective. Repetitive sometimes, but what isn't?
The OP is an applicant, not a medical student. Examining patients etc will not happen.
I'll throw in my reasons as a medical student though: yes, you do get the odd clinic where you are a little more involved, but experience tells me that more often than not you get parked in some awkward corner of the room for half the day and never spoken to, let alone get involved. They are ideal for consultants who have no interest in teaching as they can 'fire and forget' about you in the corner whilst under the guise of teaching you all of the things you mentioned. More often than not, clinics are busy, booked full and frantic. By the third patient they are running late, which then impacts on the stress level of whoever is in the clinic and then that impacts on their free time and ability to teach.
By their nature, having a separate room where you see patients then present to someone (the best case scenario for being in clinic) is onerous on the clinic team. You need an extra room and it is a waste of time overall as you have to go off, see the patient, spend 5-10 mins presenting/being questioned and then the doctor has to go off and do the entire thing again (usually quicker if a consultant). It's not really popular with the patients (they may seem pleased to see you initially, but I am of the view that this is because they don't really know what you are...often they aren't pleased to have to repeat their extremely detailed history that you have been drilled down to in your half an hour or whatever with the patient as well as being examined a second time by the doctor)
I specifically avoided clinics during med school. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen patients by myself in clinic and done the whole presenting lark. I find my time was much better utilised doing my own thing on the wards, seeing acutely ill patients in A&E, AMU, SAU and the like. Everything else is a waste of time IMO...there is tiny value in clerking old patients on the ward. Their presentation has changed, they have been clerked many times before, their signs have changed, their history starts to get muddled with time etc.
TL;DR: The main problem is what I bolded. There is too much observing and not enough doing. You can observe all day along, but it is very different from doing things yourself as I'm sure you will agree.
Original post by digitalis
I specifically avoided clinics during med school.
I specifically avoided clinics during med school.
The only clinics of the remotest use were antenatal clinics to practice examing pregnant abdos prior to OSCEs. The rest, apart from the odd rare example (I went to a single clinic before finals, examined a guy with neurofibromatosis and then got the same patient in the OSCE
), were a complete waste of time. I quickly realised in 3rd year that clinics should be avoided whenever possible.(edited 11 years ago)
Thanks everyone, all very good advice I definitely appreciate how easy it can be to drift off on shadowing experience and just try and learn medicine, but I think I've learnt from that in the past and will make every opportunity to make this experience one of learning about patient and wider-healthcare staff interaction. Thanks for your help
I definitely appreciate how easy it can be to drift off on shadowing experience and just try and learn medicine, but I think I've learnt from that in the past and will make every opportunity to make this experience one of learning about patient and wider-healthcare staff interaction. Thanks for your help Original post by digitalis
Yeah, but they also won't get the 'full' experience shadowing an F1 or whatever - its all going to be observing. At least in clinics you'll see a lot more patients and a lot less form-filling. Both would be valuable though, of course.
I'll throw in my reasons as a medical student though: yes, you do get the odd clinic where you are a little more involved, but experience tells me that more often than not you get parked in some awkward corner of the room for half the day and never spoken to, let alone get involved. They are ideal for consultants who have no interest in teaching as they can 'fire and forget' about you in the corner whilst under the guise of teaching you all of the things you mentioned. More often than not, clinics are busy, booked full and frantic. By the third patient they are running late, which then impacts on the stress level of whoever is in the clinic and then that impacts on their free time and ability to teach.
I can honestly say that i've found that is the minority of the time, and even when it does happen, listening to case presentations of diseases you have not come across, or even those you have, is useful. And asking questions invariably yields and answer - they don't completely ignore you.
The opposite side is that you get to examine every patient that comes in, with detailed feedback being provided by a senior in that subject, and brief discussions of the case between patients an opportunities to ask questions. I'd say that extreme is as common as being totally ignored. And you learn/ask about which teachers are useful to go with as well, maximising the good teaching.
By their nature, having a separate room where you see patients then present to someone (the best case scenario for being in clinic) is onerous on the clinic team. You need an extra room and it is a waste of time overall as you have to go off, see the patient, spend 5-10 mins presenting/being questioned and then the doctor has to go off and do the entire thing again
They don't do the entire thing again though. They listen to your presentation, ask a few questions about past problems etc, focus on a couple of salient features with the patient, quick exam, done. Much quicker.
Med students doing this kind of thing are a logistical burden but should save a good deal of time overall. Admittedly, i have only done this twice though.
I specifically avoided clinics during med school. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen patients by myself in clinic and done the whole presenting lark. I find my time was much better utilised doing my own thing on the wards...
I specifically go to clinics! Doing my own thing on the ward is just far far slower, far more repetitive, and a far inferior learning experience imo. I know you'll say 'get involved more' or something, but fact is a lot of the time staff aren't around, patients are ill, eating, with visitors, in pain, confused... just as time in clinics can be less useful with a bad consultant, time on the wards can be very wasteful too. And on the wards you can perform 100 exams but without good feedback on whether you are doing/finding the right thing it is of limited value.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by amber109
its not even june 2012 yet...
What do you mean?
Original post by nexttime
Yeah, but they also won't get the 'full' experience shadowing an F1 or whatever - its all going to be observing. At least in clinics you'll see a lot more patients and a lot less form-filling. Both would be valuable though, of course.
Well, it shouldn't be like that. We are apprentice doctors, not work experience students on observerships.
I can honestly say that i've found that is the minority of the time, and even when it does happen, listening to case presentations of diseases you have not come across, or even those you have, is useful. And asking questions invariably yields and answer - they don't completely ignore you.
Again, it shouldn't be like that. Trusts and consultants as their agents receive a small fortune in SIFT funding for the teaching of medical students. You shouldn't have to put up with being 'incompletely' ignored.
The opposite side is that you get to examine every patient that comes in, with detailed feedback being provided by a senior in that subject, and brief discussions of the case between patients an opportunities to ask questions. I'd say that extreme is as common as being totally ignored. And you learn/ask about which teachers are useful to go with as well, maximising the good teaching.
You certainly do not get to examine each patient in most clinics.
They don't do the entire thing again though. They listen to your presentation, ask a few questions about past problems etc, focus on a couple of salient features with the patient, quick exam, done. Much quicker.
Med students doing this kind of thing are a logistical burden but should save a good deal of time overall. Admittedly, i have only done this twice though.
*You* may think you are doing a favour and speeding things up, but in all honesty, you are not. You are just slowing the clinic down. That seemingly 'brief' H&E that the consultant does is exactly what he would do on his own having not listened to your clerking.
I specifically go to clinics! Doing my own thing on the ward is just far far slower, far more repetitive, and a far inferior learning experience imo. I know you'll say 'get involved more' or something, but fact is a lot of the time staff aren't around, patients are ill, eating, with visitors, in pain, confused... just as time in clinics can be less useful with a bad consultant, time on the wards can be very wasteful too. And on the wards you can perform 100 exams but without good feedback on whether you are doing/finding the right thing it is of limited value.
Well, learn as you see fit...I just think the value of wards greatly increased the nearer I got to the end of medical school. Clinics are safe, comfortable and dull...not really what I wanted.
Well, it shouldn't be like that. We are apprentice doctors, not work experience students on observerships.
I can honestly say that i've found that is the minority of the time, and even when it does happen, listening to case presentations of diseases you have not come across, or even those you have, is useful. And asking questions invariably yields and answer - they don't completely ignore you.
Again, it shouldn't be like that. Trusts and consultants as their agents receive a small fortune in SIFT funding for the teaching of medical students. You shouldn't have to put up with being 'incompletely' ignored.
The opposite side is that you get to examine every patient that comes in, with detailed feedback being provided by a senior in that subject, and brief discussions of the case between patients an opportunities to ask questions. I'd say that extreme is as common as being totally ignored. And you learn/ask about which teachers are useful to go with as well, maximising the good teaching.
You certainly do not get to examine each patient in most clinics.
They don't do the entire thing again though. They listen to your presentation, ask a few questions about past problems etc, focus on a couple of salient features with the patient, quick exam, done. Much quicker.
Med students doing this kind of thing are a logistical burden but should save a good deal of time overall. Admittedly, i have only done this twice though.
*You* may think you are doing a favour and speeding things up, but in all honesty, you are not. You are just slowing the clinic down. That seemingly 'brief' H&E that the consultant does is exactly what he would do on his own having not listened to your clerking.
I specifically go to clinics! Doing my own thing on the ward is just far far slower, far more repetitive, and a far inferior learning experience imo. I know you'll say 'get involved more' or something, but fact is a lot of the time staff aren't around, patients are ill, eating, with visitors, in pain, confused... just as time in clinics can be less useful with a bad consultant, time on the wards can be very wasteful too. And on the wards you can perform 100 exams but without good feedback on whether you are doing/finding the right thing it is of limited value.
Well, learn as you see fit...I just think the value of wards greatly increased the nearer I got to the end of medical school. Clinics are safe, comfortable and dull...not really what I wanted.
..
(edited 11 years ago)
digitalis
Well, it shouldn't be like that. We are apprentice doctors, not work experience students on observerships.
For that part, i was referring to what the OP should do. Obv we get more involved, in both clinics and wards. The work experience student is just going to be watching people whatever they are doing though. Personally, i'd rather be in clinic than on a ward with nothing in particular going on.
Again, it shouldn't be like that. Trusts and consultants as their agents receive a small fortune in SIFT funding for the teaching of medical students. You shouldn't have to put up with being 'incompletely' ignored.
Do you feel the 'small fortune' is spent on you when you're taking histories off of demented patients on the ward? Or putting cannulas in?
You certainly do not get to examine each patient in most clinics.
No, but it happens sometimes. It would be rare that you wouldn't even be able to have a 10 second listen/feel of a presenting sign, certainly.
*You* may think you are doing a favour and speeding things up, but in all honesty, you are not. You are just slowing the clinic down. That seemingly 'brief' H&E that the consultant does is exactly what he would do on his own having not listened to your clerking.
I don't think so - it focused questioning and examination right down. Not having to listen to the full ramble by the patient would probably be the most time saving affect.
Well, learn as you see fit...I just think the value of wards greatly increased the nearer I got to the end of medical school. Clinics are safe, comfortable and dull...not really what I wanted.
As you become closer to graduating you should certainly start acting more like an F1. For now though, i want to see diseases, signs and get feedback on my examinations, and i'm finding clinics are one of the best ways of doing that.
I have a 4 month break from college and I was wondering how many people sucessfully get work experience placements at local hospitals etc? How do I go about getting some w.e of my own?
thanks!
thanks!
Original post by kimsiclez
What do you mean?
cos you said: "I have been working in Boots as a Healthcare Advisor every Saturday since October 2012"
i assume you meant october 2011?
Original post by MasonM
I have a 4 month break from college and I was wondering how many people sucessfully get work experience placements at local hospitals etc? How do I go about getting some w.e of my own?
thanks!
thanks!
Check out the TSR Medicine Wiki: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Medicine_Work_Experience
How would a work experience placement in a hospital relate to my education?
We haven't covered much in science as I've only studied up to GCSE. I am intrigued after learning the basics and I'm looking forward to learning further in depth about the science involved in medicine.
I am not really sure how else I can relate my education to this work experience placement, any ideas guys?
Many thanks in advance!
We haven't covered much in science as I've only studied up to GCSE. I am intrigued after learning the basics and I'm looking forward to learning further in depth about the science involved in medicine.
I am not really sure how else I can relate my education to this work experience placement, any ideas guys?
Many thanks in advance!
Original post by amber109
cos you said: "I have been working in Boots as a Healthcare Advisor every Saturday since October 2012"
i assume you meant october 2011?
i assume you meant october 2011?
Whoops, I didn't even realise that! Don't know what time warp I slipped into there, thanks!
Original post by kimsiclez
Whoops, I didn't even realise that! Don't know what time warp I slipped into there, thanks!
lol thats alright
Hi,
Was wondering if any volunteers have trouble with having conversations to flow without awkward silences in between..? Because I do and I really want to fix that :/
Was wondering if any volunteers have trouble with having conversations to flow without awkward silences in between..? Because I do and I really want to fix that :/
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