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High Resolution NMR Spectra

I'm a bit confused about the splitting of the peaks due to the hydrogens on the adjacent carbons. I understand what happens when there are none, one, two and three, and kind of why this happens, but the book i am using doesn't explain it all. What happens when you have a molecule like butane? If you were measuring the absorption from one of the hydrogens on the second carbon, then there would be two hydrogens adjacent on one side (carbon 3), and 3 hydrogens adjacent on the other side (carbon 1). So would it be spilt into triplets or quadruplets or something completely different?

Any help would be great. I think the example of butane isn't very good for explaining terms but its the simplest one I can think of that would have this problem.

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Reply 1
Now butane is a symmetric molecule thus you would only get 2 peaks. The CH2's would appear as a sextet and the 2 CH3's would appear as a triplet (next to 2 Hydrogen's). This is because both CH3's are in the same proton environment and the same goes for the CH2's.

Edited
Reply 2
My friend, you have just come across the greatest of evils in A level chemistry...
Reply 3
Also, I must add, exam boards tend not to set any molecule with more than 3 carbons attached together but they may ask you for something which has 8 carbons with oxygens in the middle somewhere.
Reply 4
sohanshah
Also, I must add, exam boards tend not to set any molecule with more than 3 carbons attached together but they may ask you for something which has 8 carbons with oxygens in the middle somewhere.


Yeah I have looked and they won't ask about this, but as they didn't even mention it in the book (even to say that I didn't need to know it), I wanted to find out. So does sextet mean 6 peaks?
Reply 5
Edit to the last post. Of course! 3 hydrogens on carbon 1 and 2 hydrogens on carbon 2. Therefore 2 + 3 = 5. N + 1 rule = 6. If that isn't right then my head might explode.
marshey
Edit to the last post. Of course! 3 hydrogens on carbon 1 and 2 hydrogens on carbon 2. Therefore 2 + 3 = 5. N + 1 rule = 6. If that isn't right then my head might explode.


Better get the bandages and savlon out...

the hydrogens are split by adjacent hydrogens. If there are two adjacent protons then it splits the signal into 3 peaks.

To understand why you need to look at the possible spin states that the 2 adjacent protons can adopt. If they are both spinning 'up' then this is one environment. If they are both spinning down' then this is another. If they have different spins (one up and one down) then this is the third. Each of these different spin combinations provides a different magnetic anvironment for the measured hydrogens. Three environments = triplet.

The simplest case is splitting by a single proton, in for example CH3CHCl2

The measured signal from the CH3 is split by the adjacent CH into a doublet. This is because the CH proton can adopt two different spin states (up or down) each of which provides a different magnetic environment for the CH3 protons. One of the environments will increase the applied external magnetic field and the other spin state opposes and decreases the external field. Hence, two signals.

The CH proton is split into four signals by the four possible combined spin states of the CH3 protons. (up,up,up: up,up,down: up,down,down: down,down,down). Each of the combined spin states providing a different local magnetic field that adds to (or subtracts from) the external applied field strength.

In the case of CH3-CH2-CH2-CH3 the two CH3 groups are totally equivalent as are the two CH2 groups. This behaves like a double CH3-CH2 group in terms of splitting. The CH2 protons are split by the CH3 into a quartet. The CH3 protons are split by the CH2 protons into a triplet.

The integrals under the peaks gives the ratio of protons being measured - in this case 3:2

The size of the split peaks can be obtained from Pascal's triangle.
For a doublet the peak height ratio is 1:1. If its a triplet the peaks are in a ratio of 1:2:1
For a quartet the ratio is 1:3:3:1

Another useful observation is that the multiplets generally increase slightly in height towards the group that splits them.
Reply 7
charco
Better get the bandages and savlon out...

the hydrogens are split by adjacent hydrogens. If there are two adjacent protons then it splits the signal into 3 peaks.

To understand why you need to look at the possible spin states that the 2 adjacent protons can adopt. If they are both spinning 'up' then this is one environment. If they are both spinning down' then this is another. If they have different spins (one up and one down) then this is the third. Each of these different spin combinations provides a different magnetic anvironment for the measured hydrogens. Three environments = triplet.

The simplest case is splitting by a single proton, in for example CH3CHCl2

The measured signal from the CH3 is split by the adjacent CH into a doublet. This is because the CH proton can adopt two different spin states (up or down) each of which provides a different magnetic environment for the CH3 protons. One of the environments will increase the applied external magnetic field and the other spin state opposes and decreases the external field. Hence, two signals.

The CH proton is split into four signals by the four possible combined spin states of the CH3 protons. (up,up,up: up,up,down: up,down,down: down,down,down). Each of the combined spin states providing a different local magnetic field that adds to (or subtracts from) the external applied field strength.

In the case of CH3-CH2-CH2-CH3 the two CH3 groups are totally equivalent as are the two CH2 groups. This behaves like a double CH3-CH2 group in terms of splitting. The CH2 protons are split by the CH3 into a quartet. The CH3 protons are split by the CH2 protons into a triplet.

The integrals under the peaks gives the ratio of protons being measured - in this case 3:2

The size of the split peaks can be obtained from Pascal's triangle.
For a doublet the peak height ratio is 1:1. If its a triplet the peaks are in a ratio of 1:2:1
For a quartet the ratio is 1:3:3:1

Another useful observation is that the multiplets generally increase slightly in height towards the group that splits them.


Thanks a lot, that's explained why spin-spin splitting happens, but I still don't really understand why the CH2 in your example are only affected by the CH3? Why aren't they effected by the hydrogens on the other CH2 which is the other adjacent carbon?
marshey
Thanks a lot, that's explained why spin-spin splitting happens, but I still don't really understand why the CH2 in your example are only affected by the CH3? Why aren't they effected by the hydrogens on the other CH2 which is the other adjacent carbon?


because they are in identical environments... it is the same reason why the protons on one CH3 group do not split one other. The position of each protons is identical so they all experience the same magnetic field and produce the same signal.

There is no way to differentiate between any of the -CH2-CH2- protons - they are all the same distance from other groups, at the same angle, and the same magnetic field strength. etc etc
Reply 9
Take a look at an nmr spectrum for butane:

lol google isn't always your friend - at A-level you are taught the n+1 rule so you would be expected to write;

CH3 = triplet as its next to 2 protons
CH2 = sextet as its next to 5 protons

the reason why the 'real' spectrum doesn't match the rule is because the CH2 and CH3 are not quite equal, giving these 'mulitplets' plus the 'long range' couplings involved :smile:
EierVonSatan
lol google isn't always your friend - at A-level you are taught the n+1 rule so you would be expected to write;

CH3 = triplet as its next to 2 protons
CH2 = sextet as its next to 5 protons

the reason why the 'real' spectrum doesn't match the rule is because the CH2 and CH3 are not quite equal, giving these 'mulitplets' plus the 'long range' couplings involved :smile:

Sure but I've already said that above :biggrin:
sohanshah
Sure but I've already said that above :biggrin:


you said the CH3's would give a quadruplet :p:
Reply 13
sohanshah
Sure but I've already said that above :biggrin:


Ok thanks for your help guys. So the CH2 is sextet but isn't really effected by the other CH2 group because they are in the same environment, therefore it is only the protons in the CH3 group that effect it? And is this a general rule meaning that it spin-spin splitting will not be any more than into quadruplets?
EierVonSatan
you said the CH3's would give a quadruplet :p:

****. So I did :|
marshey
Ok thanks for your help guys. So the CH2 is sextet but isn't really effected by the other CH2 group because they are in the same environment, therefore it is only the protons in the CH3 group that effect it? And is this a general rule meaning that it spin-spin splitting will not be any more than into quadruplets?

The CH2 group will produce a sextet as I said. 3+2=5 plus 1 from n+1 = 6.

What was being said above I think was that there will only be 2 peaks because of this symmetry :smile:
Reply 16
sohanshah
The CH2 group will produce a sextet as I said. 3+2=5 plus 1 from n+1 = 6.

What was being said above I think was that there will only be 2 peaks because of this symmetry :smile:


OK! Sorry for the questions but as I said, there isn't anything in the book about this. So sextet (normally), would produce peaks of 1:5:10:10:5:1?
marshey
OK! Sorry for the questions but as I said, there isn't anything in the book about this. So sextet (normally), would produce peaks of 1:5:10:10:5:1?


yes :yep:
Reply 18
Sweet. And so in an organic molecule you can only have a singlet to septet if you had two CH3 groups attached to it.

Thank god for that, finally understood it. Thanks for the help everyone.
marshey
Sweet. And so in an organic molecule you can only have a singlet to septet if you had two CH3 groups attached to it.


you can get a septet from CH3-CHR- CH3 (where R is anything)

but we can go higher HC(CH3)3 would give a decet (ten peaks) :biggrin:

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