Does history really shape the future?

Original post by Noodlzzz

So I guess this a bit of history, psychology and philosophy, but:

If we say we study history to change the future, why does history keep repeating itself? Why haven't we learnt?

Because people have always their conflicts with their interests, values and generations in political affairs and in society. Always! from this perspective the history of the mankind is a struggle of ideas, thoughts and views. And most of these people aren't able to think outside of their own box, in the one hand because they are too lazy and too comfortable and stupid to change their attitudes and in the other hand the people are leading by their fears, a feeling that is mostly a bad adviser.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 3

Napp

People dont learn and the human condition mandates it, be it greed, honour etc. and of course the idea of 'itll be different this time'.

Reply 4

Original post by Napp

People dont learn and the human condition mandates it, be it greed, honour etc. and of course the idea of 'itll be different this time'.

They would not even learn it, even if they are at risk to die out. The surroundings change, the people never.

Reply 5

Napp

Original post by Kallisto

They would not even learn it, even if they are at risk to die out. The surroundings change, the people never.

Ah that old quote by Santiana springs to mind, in so many ways alas

Reply 6

If we want to use Marx's material histography and "correct" for some errors using hindsight, the we can say that at the death of a capitalist mode, it does not birth a communist utopia but instead self perpetuates itself; as the "proletariate" over throw their "bourgeois" oppressors, human greed takes over as they are no longer homogenised via circumstance and therefore private enterprise re-establishes itself. History repeats itself most prevalently in the modern day as we are in a mode of production which constantly self perpetuates and therefore themes within the rise and fall are cycled and recycled again and again in a loop that will never be broken as it is perpetuated by human nature itself

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 7

Original post by Kallisto

Because people have always their conflicts with their interests, values and generations in political affairs and in society. Always! from this perspective the history of the mankind is a struggle of ideas, thoughts and views. And most of these people aren't able to think outside of their own box, in the one hand because they are too lazy and too comfortable and stupid to change their attitudes and in the other hand the people are leading by their fears, a feeling that is mostly a bad adviser

In some ways it hacks back to Plato's cave; even if we know the true reality and recognise the cycle, do we call it out or accept the safe reality of shadows we are given?

Reply 8

Original post by Henryjay

In some ways it hacks back to Plato's cave; even if we know the true reality and recognise the cycle, do we call it out or accept the safe reality of shadows we are given?

I have thought about your question carefully, and I come to the point that it cannot be generalized for all people at all: go out of the cave means to have the courage and the self-confidence to change it by your own and even more for the society. People deal with new experiences based on a new reality differently: the ones who accept it and break new ground and the other ones who ignore it and stay where they are. From this perspective Platon's cave is a good example for how reality influences people based on their attitudes and personality.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 9

Original post by Kallisto

I have thought about your question carefully, and I come to the point that it cannot be generalized for all people at all: go out of the cave means to have the courage and the self-confidence to change it by your own and even more for the society. People deal with new experiences based on a new reality differently: the ones who accept it and break new ground and the other ones who ignore it and stay where they are. From this perspective Platon's cave is a good example for how reality influences people based on their attitudes and personality.

Yea that's really fascinating to think about. The next question after that (and it isn't as big) is what prompts people to take others out of the cave; do you take people out of the cave to support yourself or to guide them to something better: do you follow through informative social influence or normative social influence or are you happy in your own obliviousness

Reply 10

Original post by Henryjay

Yea that's really fascinating to think about. The next question after that (and it isn't as big) is what prompts people to take others out of the cave; do you take people out of the cave to support yourself or to guide them to something better: do you follow through informative social influence or normative social influence or are you happy in your own obliviousness

The majority - that is what I hope for at least - will always try to help people to achieve something better. People with the same considerations and drive engage themselves for support. And we need them to have a new and different view on the surroundings. Changes are not possible without these people! we always need them.

Reply 11

Original post by Kallisto

The majority - that is what I hope for at least - will always try to help people to achieve something better. People with the same considerations and drive engage themselves for support. And we need them to have a new and different view on the surroundings. Changes are not possible without these people! we always need them.

So are we merely homogenised by our surrounding / circumstance; if so does a break in the uniformity of us, say if one person claims something individual (say a surplus) does the situation not then force us to turn to a hierarchical structure as it did with the agricultural revolution, ending primitive communism.

Reply 12

username5997834

16

I think history is studied to get an idea about what it was like living in the past and to learn from the mistakes from it and so that we can live in an improved future

Reply 13

Original post by Purrfect Kitten

I think history is studied to get an idea about what it was like living in the past and to learn from the mistakes from it and so that we can live in an improved future

In this sense people there are never enough people to study the history and to learn from the past. The more the better. I am afraid the majority is too focused on the presence to scrutinize the periods before.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 14

username5997834

16

Original post by Kallisto

In this sense people there are never enough people to study the history and to learn from the past. The more the better. I am afraid the majority is too focused on the presence to scrutinize the periods before.

That's true, but the people that do know about history can help make changes if they see something from the past trying enter into the present

Reply 15

AW_1983

15

Original post by Noodlzzz

So I guess this a bit of history, psychology and philosophy, but:

If we say we study history to change the future, why does history keep repeating itself? Why haven't we learnt?

History doesn't repeat itself. What happens is that History shapes attitudes that still exist when the reasons for their existence are long forgotten. It's a cultural shaper and the usefulness of history is to understand whether these attitudes were formed and should continue based on reflection.

I'll give you a practical example. The UK essentially stopped voting for socialist or social democratic governments in 1979 (depending on your interpretation of what New Labour was). The shapers of these cultural attitudes were shaped in the 1970s by high volumes of strike action, a series of energy crises, an IMF bailout, very high inflation and rising employment. You might see what I'm getting at here!

So as a historian I can look at the current situation in the UK - the energy crisis, increasing strike action and very high inflation - and think maybe in the 1970s the wrong cultural attitudes were formed. Perhaps high inflation is the result of low productivity rather than excessive government spending for example? Or a population glut (then, a larger than average generation entering the workforce in large numbers, now that same generation retiring and emerging from a pandemic with lots of cash but little in the way of productivity). Or maybe inflation is driven by energy crises regardless of which type of government is in power.

So I can use history to re-evaluate and refine, dismiss the attitudes that have been proven wrong and move forward with a more open mind.

Reply 16

Original post by Noodlzzz

So I guess this a bit of history, psychology and philosophy, but:

If we say we study history to change the future, why does history keep repeating itself? Why haven't we learnt?

Because fundamentally history's purpose is not to change the future. It is the study of the past. There is a reason historical works are criticised for taking a nomothetic approach - it undermines the history written. To attempt to extract deeper laws at any level infringes on the temporal validity of the example or lesson; no example in history can be fully learned from as the conditions under which that situation unfolded is unique - situations that are far too complex to generalise to a lesson. The past is dynamic, we study it to understand it and how we got to where we are: we do not study history to apply it to the future.

That is not to say history cannot advise the present eg: if we treat the loser too harshly animosity may develop leading to future issues, but it cannot and should not be used to change the future. If we bar ourselves by the past we restrict and constrict ourselves believing outcomes may be the same in the present conditions as they were then. Thus I would infer it is down to the applicability of the past being utilised but in any case, great scepticism must be employed.

Reply 17

joseph254

3

Through the study of history we can develop a feel for the way in which society will develop in the future.History helps one to understand the immerse complexity of our world and therefore enables one to cope with the problems and possibilities of the present and future

Reply 18