Would you be in favour of affirmative action for university admissions?
The United State Supreme Court is now considering two cases that could result in a ruling that it is unconstitutional for universities to consider race or ethnicity in admissions decisions.
What do you think? Should the UK also adopt a similar policy, for example by giving a boost to the a level grades of BAME people?
What do you think? Should the UK also adopt a similar policy, for example by giving a boost to the a level grades of BAME people?
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No, class/wealth is a far bigger issue in the uk than race.
Why should someone who’s BAME but a millionaire get a boost but someone who’s white but lives in poverty not? I can assure you the latter has faced more challenges.
We have contextual offers which look at your background more than anything and yes there is intersectionality between race and class however the former should not be a sole decider.
Realistically your race should have nothing to do with it, it should be based on your own merit given the circumstances you have faced and challenges hence contextual offers.
There’s already grants and scholarships for BAME students which again I’m not sure I agree with, financial help should be there to those that need it, the amount of melanin in your skin should not factor into that decision.
Why should someone who’s BAME but a millionaire get a boost but someone who’s white but lives in poverty not? I can assure you the latter has faced more challenges.
We have contextual offers which look at your background more than anything and yes there is intersectionality between race and class however the former should not be a sole decider.
Realistically your race should have nothing to do with it, it should be based on your own merit given the circumstances you have faced and challenges hence contextual offers.
There’s already grants and scholarships for BAME students which again I’m not sure I agree with, financial help should be there to those that need it, the amount of melanin in your skin should not factor into that decision.
No, I don't support affirmative action within any country.
Selection for competitive degree places needs to be entirely based upon: past academic performance, employment, funding, self employment history & achievements, references, health, study capabilities, communication skills and other qualifications achieved.
I do support eligibility requirements for at least half of all courses leading to a degree or diploma award.
Like requiring that all home applicants to be resident uk citizens; without criminal records and native english language speakers who have been primarily based within the uk for at least the last 15-20 years.
Selection for competitive degree places needs to be entirely based upon: past academic performance, employment, funding, self employment history & achievements, references, health, study capabilities, communication skills and other qualifications achieved.
I do support eligibility requirements for at least half of all courses leading to a degree or diploma award.
Like requiring that all home applicants to be resident uk citizens; without criminal records and native english language speakers who have been primarily based within the uk for at least the last 15-20 years.
No. we're not the US and we already offer a lot of help. How are you supposed to explain with a straight face to professions that a grade is based on circumstance over ability without diluting everything?
no. privilege is not divided the same way in the uk as in the us, and more importantly the us has a far less meritocratic university admissions process that necessarily requires heavy handed measures such as affirmative action
Absolutely not. Admissions should be based purely on ability and race shouldn't be considered at all.
Race shousljt be a factor in these things and I’d be in support of candidates not even having to declare it, or at least the info being withheld during selection process.
Original post by Andrew97
Race shousljt be a factor in these things and I’d be in support of candidates not even having to declare it, or at least the info being withheld during selection process.
But a name can give much away and allow bias. As can an address, or school or university details.
I guess all applications should be completely anonymous with no personal information. Simply qualifications and type of experience.
Original post by WADR
But a name can give much away and allow bias. As can an address, or school or university details.
I guess all applications should be completely anonymous with no personal information. Simply qualifications and type of experience.
I guess all applications should be completely anonymous with no personal information. Simply qualifications and type of experience.
Yeah I’d support that.
if you go with affirmative action you could end up causing racist incidents
Original post by Andrew97
Yeah I’d support that.
Interviews might be a bit difficult though. And what's the point of spending time, money and effort on good schools and universities if you can't gain an advantage from it?
if you go with affirmative action you could end up causing racist incidents
I don't think we should avoid addressing racial inequality just because some racist snowflakes might get their panties in a bunch.
Original post by WADR
Interviews might be a bit difficult though. And what's the point of spending time, money and effort on good schools and universities if you can't gain an advantage from it?
I don't think we should avoid addressing racial inequality just because some racist snowflakes might get their panties in a bunch.
I don't think we should avoid addressing racial inequality just because some racist snowflakes might get their panties in a bunch.
Well yeah it would have to be worked out, that’s my ideal situation but as you say it’s not exactly 100% practical. I’d argue that thr good schools will come across in other ways than just the name
you also don’t address racial inequality but discrimination against a certain group to prop somebody else up.
What a revolting idea. What is it with people in this day and age having such a fetish for discrimination, be it for or against people, based on their race and/or genitals?
Aside from being grossly unfair to everyone else it is really impressively infantilizing for those its aimed at. In what the op notes, its expressly telling blacks that by dint of their ethnicity theyre not competent enough to get into university on their own merit. Now, correct me if im wrong but that seems to be about as racist as you can get shy of breaking out the white hoods.. if any type of discrimination is called for (and it isn't) surely it should be on postcodes, given thats what dictates most students educational background thanks to the catchment areas. Someone from an SW1 code is going to almost inevitably have gone to a better school than some dumpster fire in stepney green - skin colour not really having much of a bearing on it.
Well... unless youre one of those deeply divisive hard left/right sorts who is unable to see the world without those particular tinted glasses..
Aside from being grossly unfair to everyone else it is really impressively infantilizing for those its aimed at. In what the op notes, its expressly telling blacks that by dint of their ethnicity theyre not competent enough to get into university on their own merit. Now, correct me if im wrong but that seems to be about as racist as you can get shy of breaking out the white hoods.. if any type of discrimination is called for (and it isn't) surely it should be on postcodes, given thats what dictates most students educational background thanks to the catchment areas. Someone from an SW1 code is going to almost inevitably have gone to a better school than some dumpster fire in stepney green - skin colour not really having much of a bearing on it.
Well... unless youre one of those deeply divisive hard left/right sorts who is unable to see the world without those particular tinted glasses..
Original post by Napp
What a revolting idea. What is it with people in this day and age having such a fetish for discrimination, be it for or against people, based on their race and/or genitals?
Aside from being grossly unfair to everyone else it is really impressively infantilizing for those its aimed at. In what the op notes, its expressly telling blacks that by dint of their ethnicity theyre not competent enough to get into university on their own merit. Now, correct me if im wrong but that seems to be about as racist as you can get shy of breaking out the white hoods.. if any type of discrimination is called for (and it isn't) surely it should be on postcodes, given thats what dictates most students educational background thanks to the catchment areas. Someone from an SW1 code is going to almost inevitably have gone to a better school than some dumpster fire in stepney green - skin colour not really having much of a bearing on it.
Well... unless youre one of those deeply divisive hard left/right sorts who is unable to see the world without those particular tinted glasses..
Aside from being grossly unfair to everyone else it is really impressively infantilizing for those its aimed at. In what the op notes, its expressly telling blacks that by dint of their ethnicity theyre not competent enough to get into university on their own merit. Now, correct me if im wrong but that seems to be about as racist as you can get shy of breaking out the white hoods.. if any type of discrimination is called for (and it isn't) surely it should be on postcodes, given thats what dictates most students educational background thanks to the catchment areas. Someone from an SW1 code is going to almost inevitably have gone to a better school than some dumpster fire in stepney green - skin colour not really having much of a bearing on it.
Well... unless youre one of those deeply divisive hard left/right sorts who is unable to see the world without those particular tinted glasses..
How strange that you call a well-intentioned, if possibly flawed, means of addressing systemic and institutional racism as "revolting".
When added to all your other posts on a variety of such issues, your agenda has become all too clear.
We shall not be corresponding again.
Original post by ALEreapp
No, class/wealth is a far bigger issue in the uk than race.
Why should someone who’s BAME but a millionaire get a boost but someone who’s white but lives in poverty not? I can assure you the latter has faced more challenges.
Why should someone who’s BAME but a millionaire get a boost but someone who’s white but lives in poverty not? I can assure you the latter has faced more challenges.
Agreed. The college I work at uses postcode as an indicator of depravation rather than any other identifiable metric.
Original post by ALEreapp
Why should someone who’s BAME but a millionaire get a boost but someone who’s white but lives in poverty not?
Not sure if that's how it works in practice.
Original post by WADR
Not sure if that's how it works in practice.
If we give favour to people based on skin colour alone that is exactly how it works.
It’s better to just avoid it and make skin colour irrelevant to applications.
Original post by ALEreapp
If we give favour to people based on skin colour alone that is exactly how it works.
It’s better to just avoid it and make skin colour irrelevant to applications.
It’s better to just avoid it and make skin colour irrelevant to applications.
But that isn't how it works in practice. You can't get a job as a surgeon just because you're black. You have to be suitably qualified and experienced.
And millionaires don't qualify for scholarships, etc. and won't be struggling to find a job in the first place.
The whole point of affirmative action is to redress an imbalance caused by discrimination based on skin colour. Ignoring race only helps those who don't suffer discrimination based on race.
(edited 1 year ago)
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