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Reply 40
bret
You can get any ethnic food you want at any time you want. Even the Indian food is as good as anything you’d get in Bradford.


:rofl:
Reply 41
Begoner
When you understand the misery and penury from which many Mexican (and other Hispanic) families escaped, you'll realize why some can be so fervently patriotic. After all, they are leaving impoverished nations plagued by violence to come to the US, where, despite its flaws, they can enjoy a far greater quality of life. Do you expect them to complain after taking such an immense step forward?


I do understand this. But it's the Washington economic consensus and American imperial meddling in Central America which perpetuated the cycle of violence and poverty throughout the hemisphere. Even with the limited education many of these people have, surely they can make the connection.
quadruple_twist
Fair enough with some of your other points, but I very much doubt that this 'guess' is true. BNP represents a tiny minority of British people, and there is a significant amount of anti-Muslim xenophobia in the US too. Also, aren't many white Americans ridiculously prejudiced towards immigrants from South America, especially Mexico? Many American comedies play on the 'lazy Mexican' type and I sometimes wonder how much of it is facetious and how much actually echoes the beliefs of many Americans.


There are racist groups like the KKK in the US, but the KKK isn't a political party. The KKK has maybe 2000 members, tops, and has been completely marginalized. How many tens of thousands of Britons voted for the BNP in the last election?
Reply 43
Made in the USA
There are racist groups like the KKK in the US, but the KKK isn't a political party. The KKK has maybe 2000 members, tops, and has been completely marginalized. How many tens of thousands of Britons voted for the BNP in the last election?


You don't need a political party to propagate racism in the US, since it's completely institutionalized. I bet more rednecks on $15k a year and with no health insurance in WV voted McCain just because he was white than the total number of BNP votes.
bret
You don't need a political party to propagate racism in the US, since it's completely institutionalized. I bet more rednecks on $15k a year and with no health insurance in WV voted McCain just because he was white than the total number of BNP votes.


Whatever, the guy won decisively despite being the least qualified, most pitifully inexperienced, and most radical man ever to run for president. Where is your non-white leader?
Reply 45
Made in the USA
Whatever, the guy won decisively despite being the least qualified, most pitifully inexperienced, and most radical man ever to run for president. Where is your non-white leader?


That's exactly my point. You can have a black fellow as chief executive, but racism still goes to the core of the structure. We had a female Prime Minister for a decade too long. Does this mean sexism is eradicated from UK society? No. Thatcher's behavior was more in the masculine mold than any of her predecessors since Gladstone. Hence the joke she was the only man in that Cabinet. The structure remains untouched, if not reinvigorated.

The fact the black man is Obama--an imperialist, pro-Israel, anti-gay, blame the victim, corporate lackey--rather than Jesse Jackson says it all.
bret

The fact the black man is Obama--an imperialist, pro-Israel, anti-gay, blame the victim, corporate lackey--rather than Jesse Jackson says it all.


Jesse Jackson, the man who, when he was a young waiter, spit into the food of white patrons he hated and then smilingly served it to them? No thanks!

I don't agree with you, but you're not all bad. At least you aren't part of the "World’s Biggest Circle Jerk" in Berlin, listening to Obama. It's nice to see some people across the pond can think for themselves and don't think Obama is Jesus just because the media tells them it's so.
Reply 47
Ive been in California my whole life and I never had Indian food.

Nice article about your experience in California. However, don't generalize America based on California.

Also, I never heard of juicycampus.com. WTF is that?
Reply 48
1. Too long.

2. You lived in California. Everyone in American knows California is different than the rest of our country. Don't generalize my country like that without seeing every state.

3. I would rather have the freedoms I currently can express in America than being watched on CCTV footage all day in my city and have no privacy.

4. You shall not be missed. :smile:

Cyclone33
Ive been in California my whole life and I never had Indian food.

Nice article about your experience in California. However, don't generalize America based on California.

Also, I never heard of juicycampus.com. WTF is that?


It was just a gossip website for college students.
Cyclone33
Ive been in California my whole life and I never had Indian food.

Nice article about your experience in California. However, don't generalize America based on California.

Also, I never heard of juicycampus.com. WTF is that?


One thing that surprised me about his post was that he didn't mention the near-perfect weather. California, despite all its problems, may have the world's best climate. I never tried Indian food in California, but the sushi I tried in El Segundo was out of this world. People who live there take the amazing restaurants for granted. In Miami, the quality of the food and service is absolutely appalling. :puke:
Made in the USA
One thing that surprised me about his post was that he didn't mention the near-perfect weather. California, despite all its problems, may have the world's best climate.


Agreed. On the whole California's climate is perfect, in the winter it pretty much never drops below 18C, and only rains occasionally, it is a nice dry heat. However, in the summer it rarely gets astronomically hot either. On the whole, the tempurature hovers around 28-30, and at max 34-35, it rarely gets into the uncomfortable upper 30s, 40s as experienced in some states.

So yeah, on the weather front California has it right. :top:
Reply 51
bret
I do understand this. But it's the Washington economic consensus and American imperial meddling in Central America which perpetuated the cycle of violence and poverty throughout the hemisphere. Even with the limited education many of these people have, surely they can make the connection.


Those who make the connection and, as a consequence, resent the US, choose not to immigrate there. On the other hand, those who are prepared to let bygones be bygones and seek a better life do immigrate. I'm sure that American Hispanics and Latin American Hispanics have wildly different political views.
Reply 52
quadruple_twist
Also, aren't many white Americans ridiculously prejudiced towards immigrants from South America, especially Mexico? Many American comedies play on the 'lazy Mexican' type...


There might be some degree of racism towards Hispanics in some regions of the US, I suppose, but it's not nearly as pervasive and systematic as racism towards blacks used to be. Most anti-Hispanic sentiment has a basis in economics and sheer ignorance rather than malicious racism (i.e., the belief that Hispanics "steal" American jobs). On the other hand, there is absolutely no racism towards Hispanics in the media -- our comedies have been scrupulously wiped clean of any hint of racism.

I also disagree with your comments on religion: Americans may be more tolerant of other religions than in, say, Northern Ireland, but they are certainly less tolerant of non-religious people: examples include the evolution 'disclaimers' that were put on some textbooks in certain states (which have since been removed, thankfully) and the fact that on any non-cable TV channel, regardless of the time of day, you won't even hear "God-damnit" without it being censored. Religion is still much more prevalent and controlling in the US than in many other Western countries.


I was referring to tolerance on a personal level -- religion does not a play a significant role in relationships between individuals even though it plays a major role on a national scale. After all, America is probably the most religious country you'll find outside the third world -- great care is taken not to offend those with other religious viewpoints (which is why God-damnit is censored and why there is a movement to introduce "intelligent design" into the high school curriculum).
Reply 53
I eat more authenticChinese food (not Panda Express crap) than American food.


Other-types-of food ftw
Cyclone33
I eat more authenticChinese food (not Panda Express crap) than American food.


Other-types-of food ftw


Ever been to Manhattan? Wu Liang Ye, 36 W 48th St, New York 10036; (Between 5th & 6th Ave) has the best Chinese food I've ever eaten in my life. I've never been to China so I can't comment on its authenticity, but man is it delicious.
Reply 55
Made in the USA
Ever been to Manhattan? Wu Liang Ye, 36 W 48th St, New York 10036; (Between 5th & 6th Ave) has the best Chinese food I've ever eaten in my life. I've never been to China so I can't comment on its authenticity, but man is it delicious.


Manhattan is AWESOME. Too bad I didn't get the chance to go to Chinatown.
Cyclone33
Manhattan is AWESOME. Too bad I didn't get the chance to go to Chinatown.


This place isn't in Chinatown, but I'm sure there are lots of amazing places in Chinatown too. New York has spectacular restaurants, and a lot of cities in Cali, and Las Vegas. I hear the italian restaurants in Chicago are amazing too. The only major US city I've been where the food is completely hopeless is Miami. Great Cuban food, but who can eat rice and beans every day?
bret
I noticed a thread on immigrating to the US a couple of days ago, asking which was better, the UK or America. I can't find that thread, but here are my thoughts as someone who's lived and worked in California for two years.

I was sent into exile in California about two years ago, but am quitting my job here and moving back home, even if it means being the laughing stock among my friends and society. The reasons are myriad.

The US cannot compete with the UK with regards life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

For a start, the UK is a much freer society. One can speak the truth about politics (particularly America's role in the world and Israel) without being censured, even by supposed liberals, and we have a free press. Something like the Indy, or even the Guardian, could never be published in the US, since it falls outside of the mainstream. All US newspapers self-censor to avoid upsetting the military-industrial complex and establishment, apart from the neoconservative right, which can publish its racism and homophobia at will.

Civil liberties are virtually non-existent. The police and bureaucracy are so unwieldy that once you've been accused of a misdemeanor or infraction, there's no getting out of it. Get a parking ticket and you were within the lines? The people at the parking bureau can barely speak English and really can't be bothered. Want a driver's license? Wait 6 hours at the DMV. Walk across the street a few feet out of the designated crossing--a stern talking to by a cop in jackboots with a gun, and a $180 fine. And that's even if you're white.

There's no socioeconomic conflict here, as Bismark gloats, but is that a good thing? Is it a good thing that people transfer their frustrations of living in the most unfair, overworked, unmeritocratic and unequal society in the industrialized world onto false categories such as race? For while nobody bitches about the ruling class, who are truly responsible for America's ills, your average working class white is sure to harbor many a racial prejudice.

Americans aren't any dumber than people of other nationalities. There's just a greater percentage of them who don't give a **** about anything outside of their immediate sphere of activity. It’s this mindboggling parochialism which engenders a situation where people without health insurance are happy to wave 6 by 4 flags from their ghetto houses and cry at football game flyovers (this is when warplanes show off the might of empire by flying over the field before the Star Spangled Banner is played—I kid you not). That these people can recollect off the top of their heads the batting averages of every Dodgers player in the last 40 years, but think that Europe is a country and England is near to Canada, is testament to misplaced intellect rather than lack thereof.

Like the Buffalo soldiers who fought in segregated companies in World War II, it’s so tragic to see Mexican families buy into the America dream so completely, when you hear privileged white students from the OC and Malibu joke about how they’d rather get a DUI than use the metro, “cause we speak English and that’s not our mode of transportation”. Many Latinos work 12 hour days, 60 hour weeks with no union benefits or respect, yet fly their flags, plaster “Support the Troops” and “Freedom isn’t Free” stickers on their banged up SUVs, enlist in the military at a rate greater than any other ethnic group, eat artery clogging fast food for every meal, and vote to take away the rights of other oppressed minorities (Prop 8).

It would be unfair to single out only the Mexicans for their apathy. College students, for the most part, are equally unconcerned. Why do so many Americans use TSR? Because a web forum where college-age students can intelligibly debate the issues of the day would never fly in the US. This is what they have in place of TSR: www.juicycampus.com

Oh, and did I mention it’s very religious? Go to plentyoffish.com, an online dating site. Look at, say, Birmingham, and do a random search for people. Chances are just about all of the people will have N/A or non-religious as their religious beliefs status. Now got to Birmingham, AL, and do a similar search. I predict you’ll get 70% Baptist the rest Methodist and Christian-Other. Okay, let’s try the most “liberated” place in America, San Francisco, CA and limit the search to Caucasians to avoid Latino and black piety skewing our results. Bet you still get 60% professing some kind of Christian—if not Protestant—belief. This is not a bad thing in itself. It just means that half of the population you wouldn’t really want to hang out with, since they’d try to convert you, for Americans don’t really go in for Episcopal “live and let live” type religiosity any more. It also means if you’re gay, you’ll end up either living in a homosexual ghetto like West Hollywood or the Castro, or having to hide your sexuality. Same if you’re a sexually liberated woman. Getting the reputation of a slut strikes fear into the heart of every freshman girl on even secular American campuses, and there are plenty of people there to brand you as such. And that binge drinking habit you’ve gotten into. That’s got to go, unless you become part of the Greek subculture. And carrying an open container gets you a $160 fine and a booking.

Whoever said America doesn’t have any culture is incorrect. It’s got fake tits, cars and TV. Only joking. North America has over 400 years of European history and the native narratives are incredibly interesting. Some of it is enlightened, some of it tragic, most of it hypocritical and its historiography shrouded in hyperbole, but it’s there nonetheless, and all educated people should study it. Trouble is, a lot of Americans (perhaps most) don’t give a damn, and this goes back to the apathy. We’re not talking here about the finer points of the incorporation of the California Republic into the Union, which again, I think people living in this part of the world should know about to an extent. No. If I drove along Wilshire Blvd tomorrow and asked 20 people to recite five amendments of the Bill of Rights, I’d be lucky to find 10 who could. I bet I’d even find a few people who didn’t know what the Bill of Rights was. And that’s why Bush was able to ride roughshod over the people’s constitutional rights. How can they defend them when they don’t know what they are? What good is a rich history if it remains the preserve of rich people, who are the only ones who can afford a decent education and are the last to have their rights trammelled in any case?

America is a vast and fascinating country, and you need to go on a road trip from sea to shining sea to even begin to understand America as a literary, social, political and cultural phenomenon. And I thoroughly encourage all young thinking Brits to do so. Most of you will realize how lucky you are to have been born in the country you were, while the odd few might fall in love and immigrate. Good luck to them.

Some good things about California:

You can get any ethnic food you want at any time you want. Even the Indian food is as good as anything you’d get in Bradford.

People are often genuinely excited to talk to you, even if they’re not quite sure where you’re from.

You can surf in the morning on Venice Beach and ski in the afternoon at Big Bear.

People have a real sense of optimism here, even if they live in a slum neighborhood and work long hours.

The diversity. Fewer than a quarter of California residents (including non-citizens) were born in state.

The most stunning coastal highway in the world.

Big British ex-pat community so you can watch the football in an authentic pub with Strongbow and Carling, wishing you were hadn’t been exiled.


Great Post.

This guy in Canada does/once did (?) a TV show called "Talking to Americans," where he would walk down the street somewhere in the US asking random people various (seemingly) common sense questions, such as asking them to find Iraq on a map or something like that, and they would always get the answer wrong. It was hilarious and sad at the same time.
Okay, let’s try the most “liberated” place in America, San Francisco, CA and limit the search to Caucasians to avoid Latino and black piety skewing our results. Bet you still get 60% professing some kind of Christian—if not Protestant—belief. This is not a bad thing in itself. It just means that half of the population you wouldn’t really want to hang out with, since they’d try to convert you


Seriously? You think that everybody who identifies with a religion on a dating site will try to convert you given half the chance?
Reply 59
Good post, nice perspective.

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