PhD Abroad - Imperial or Durham better for application?

I think Imperial is much more internationally renowned than Durham and for that reason alone I think it would be the better option if you're thinking about studying abroad afterward.

Why do you think that?

Imperial is ranked fifth in the international league tables (not that it matters so much), it is also internationally renowned for being an institute of excellence when it comes to science.

Outside of the UK, Durham is what you might refer to in football as a "nobody". If Durham were to step onto the pitch in a Champions League match, the opposition fans would be chanting "Who are ya!? Who are ya!?".

You know the truth, stop showing favoritism.

Right, so you're using the THES world ranking (one league table) to show how respected/well known their physics departments are? You don't see a flaw in that? That it's a general ranking (not physics specific) and takes into account things like percentage of international students for crying out loud.

That's gnoring the world class research that Durham produces, that, in some areas of physics, it's amongst the best in the world. Not to mention the international links it has. It's one of the strongest names aroun in astrophysis and astronomy. Which, for me, it all really comes down to research area. It's not favourtisim at all. I'm not saying, "omgodz, Durham ftw". I don't have anywhere near the knowledge and experienced required to say "university x is better known" and you certainly haven't.

There are a number of universities who produce as much, if not more, world class research as Imperial does and who are well known internationally.

Imperial is ranked fifth in the international league tables (not that it matters so much), it is also internationally renowned for being an institute of excellence when it comes to science.

Outside of the UK, Durham is what you might refer to in football as a "nobody". If Durham were to step onto the pitch in a Champions League match, the opposition fans would be chanting "Who are ya!? Who are ya!?".

You know the truth, stop showing favoritism.

What?! You're an idiot.

Your analogy is very flawed. The equivalent of the fans would be university students abroad, who may not know much about Durham. However, that's not who's going to be considering the OP's application. In your analogy, the people that matter would be the managers and the experts, who would be VERY well aware of the 'Durham' team.

OP's application will be considered by faculty heads and Physics professors, who will have a VERY good idea how good Durham is. In fact, we have a few exchange and year abroad schemes running with universities such as a few in the Ivy League.

Durham is a quality university, there is no doubt whatsoever about that. It is also the best in the UK (and possibly beyond) for astrophysics. Durham also has beautiful architecture and it's in a lovely location close to Newcastle when you feel like socialising. Durham is seen as one of the best universities in the UK and there is no doubt that it produces graduates of the highest quality.

(The above is what you'd want to hear, now let's get to the point).

Any university which is a domestic powerhouse, but doesn't carry the same weight abroad produces a certain type of student. These students often have light coloured skin and come from the rural areas of the country. They live in big houses and have wealthy parents. Once they graduate, they do not make the most of their earnings. They are spoilt people, they are snobs.

Imperial on the other hand attracts and produces the right kind of hard working students. They go abroad unlike their cousins from Durham and they succeed.

Imperial is one of the best universities in the UK for physics. Follow your head, not River's who will flow and flow and will eventually reach the sea where he will be one of many.

Listen to what 0404343m has said and take note. It's good advice.

Now, can we actually get back on topic and stop it with the insults and sillyness. Danke.

Hi Mith,
Clearly I want you to go to Imperial </bias>
To be honest with you, I'd be more concerned about where I'm living, and the 'feel' of the department.
I declined Durham, because even though I love the city, it's too hilly for me, and also too far from home, which is a factor for me, as my grandmother's pretty ill right now, so if she did pass away, I'd need to get back to her quickly. Obviously, you're going to have different priorities, but keep them in mind.
Where did you most feel 'at home'? Could you live in London for four years?
Because, to be honest with you, both universities are awesome and so close to each other league table and prestige wise, that I'd pick where I wanted to be.
But, you know, your choice. And I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm sure you've thought of it before, but perhaps you could visit them again on a 'normal' day, go have coffee in the coffee shop past the Physics dept of Imperial etc, and just see if you think you could fit in there, and would like it.

My 2 cents, Jess

Yeah this is the problem, from my experiences I felt far more 'at home' in Durham, but this was because when I went there it was a much smaller visit day and I was with proper students and went out that night with them and things, then at Imperial it was a very structured open day type thing .

Also, I have to make a decision by monday so visiting them again isn't really possible .

If you only like being told what you want to hear, don't ask for advice. Sometimes it ain't all about telling you how great things are, it doesn't work that way. You WILL need a strong academic record. Regardless of where you go, this is the FIRST consideration. Plenty of Russell/1994 Group students are knocked back because of their 2:1. Three years before you so much as look at a university question is slightly premature to be worrying about the PhD- you'll be up against a lot of very talented students at both universities, and only the top 1/6 of them have any realistic chance of PhD study. The sad fact is, I know many people who would quite like to get involved in research- but while straight Bs would have them in the top third of the year, they don't have a hope of getting in. Supervisors take on a couple of students at most, popular project places are like hens teeth- its not being condescending, its being realistic.

Objectively, you shouldn't care about the University in this instance. It matters, but not much. Read what I said earlier- big departments have big international presences- they usually take part in big European/World collaborations. AAU, IRUN, Coimbra, Universitas 21, IARU, LERU etc. What your teachers or parents think of prestige here might mean nothing abroad. I use Loughborough again- its a very good university, but a league table which ranks things like dropout rates/student satisfaction will not even register on an admissions tutors thoughts at Northwestern. They want to know what the department is like- if it has some world renowned academics, then the league table means nothing.

Durham and Imperial are very good universities. But lets cross the first hurdle before we think about the last. You will need top references and top grades. Go where you think you'll be best suited to achieveing those grades, otherwise you have very little chance of getting in, regardless of the name on the degree.