The Arsenal Thread XI

Original post by jilebinator

nope. has to be a buy.

(before i get sued, this is a joke bet)

I'm going to enjoy my £50 worth of Tsr money.

My bet is that, he'll only buy if he gets rid of a key player.

Reply 3061

username129099

15

Original post by Overmars

As I said, he has got his team 5 points clear in the league. Long way to go but it'd be utterly stupid to judge him on these head-to-head games against Barcelona as opposed to their current position in the league.

I think you are giving him a bit too much credit. We already know Real and Barca can take apart the rest of the league, 49 and 47 GD compared to 9 as the closest team, they are clear 1st and 2nd in the league, there is no debate to be had there. Barca have lost 1 and drawn 5 which leaves them 1 more loss and 1 more draw to equal their record last season. When Real and Barca have played this season its been clear who are superior team, I don't think Mourinho has improved the team in comparison to Barca. He's doing better against the rest of the teams and Barca have dropped points rather than had them taken, it poor play against the rest of the teams by Barca rather than a change in power. The general view seems to be even if Real win the league, everyone know its speaks more about the weakness of the rest of the league rather than superiority of Real over Barca.

Reply 3062

Bear_Grylls

19

Original post by Complex Simplicity

How are you in the red mate?

I really hope Arsene will surprise us with a deadline day flurry of signings.

Haha I always post sarcastic replys which people take seriously and neg me, I got about 15 negs for saying Walcott was underrated and a superstar in another topic (anyone who sees my posts here will know how crap i think he is)

But alas,

I honestly dont think we will sign anyone, Upfront, his signing was Henry, in midfield he will use the old "wilshere will be like a new signing" and defensivly he was looking for a lb to loan..but that looks like it wont be happening either

:colone:

Reply 3063

Original post by jam277

Weird, because the barca team of 2010 is basically the barca team now, only difference is that fabregas and sanchez are playing instead of ibrahimovich and henry. There isn't much of a difference between that barca team that faced inter and this one. I wouldn't even say that messi has improved, he's just been doing the same thing he did since he won his first ballon d'or, just that he was already the best anyway and is now in a different role for barca.

Also, at madrid, he has a considerably better ATTACKING team, mourinho isn't known for attacking. At chelsea he had the best defence in the world at the time, the 05 team consisted of ferreira, terry, carvalho and gallas and conceded 15 goals in the whole season. At inter he had the best defence at the time with lucio and samuel in their primes and an inform maicon, zanetti does the job at 38 years old as well.

Can you say the same for madrid, marcelo and ramos(too attacking), carvalho(too old), pepe(too temperamental but still their best defender) Mourinho isn't one to work at a team like that with egos as big as himself.

I remember that Barcas team against Inter at the Nou Camp was quite weak. From a quick google search, they had Milito, Toure, Keita and Ibrahimovic playing. They now have David Villa, Sanchez, Fabregas, Iniesta, Abidal and Puyol all relatively fit to play (aside from Villa). We also have to appreciate that this new Barca in terms of cohesion is miles ahead. They play fluently and with ease. I doubt that Inter team or Chelsea team would trouble this new Barcelona team.

Marcelo is rated as one of the better LBs. Ramos is rated as a world class RB and even Pepe as much as I hate him is rated highly. If they are that poor defensively, then why not sign some CBs? He has the funds.

Reply 3064

Original post by Overmars

As I said, he has got his team 5 points clear in the league. Long way to go but it'd be utterly stupid to judge him on these head-to-head games against Barcelona as opposed to their current position in the league.

The difference is, when they face each other in the CL, Barca will win it. As a result, even if Madrid win La liga, Barca's Champions league trophy will eclipse it.

Reply 3065

Original post by doggyfizzel

I think you are giving him a bit too much credit. We already know Real and Barca can take apart the rest of the league, 49 and 47 GD compared to 9 as the closest team, they are clear 1st and 2nd in the league, there is no debate to be had there. Barca have lost 1 and drawn 5 which leaves them 1 more loss and 1 more draw to equal their record last season. When Real and Barca have played this season its been clear who are superior team, I don't think Mourinho has improved the team in comparison to Barca. He's doing better against the rest of the teams and Barca have dropped points rather than had them taken, it poor play against the rest of the teams by Barca rather than a change in power. The general view seems to be even if Real win the league, everyone know its speaks more about the weakness of the rest of the league rather than superiority of Real over Barca.

You can only beat what's in front of you. And he's doing that. You can always side with one side over the other in these sorts of silly "they weren't good, the other team were crap" arguments. I've heard it said far too much that Mourinho keeps losing to Barca. My point was that he's beating them in the only thing that counts. The league table is, and always will be, the best method of deciding the best team. I believe Barcelona are the more talented team but if they're not consistent enough to win the league, it doesn't matter.

Reply 3066

Original post by Darth Vader 7

The difference is, when they face each other in the CL, Barca will win it. As a result, even if Madrid win La liga, Barca's Champions league trophy will eclipse it.

For me, winning the CL doesn't prove you're the best. Winning the league does. But I do think that Barcelona are the more talented side ability-wise. Long way to go and you can only judge based on what is happening. Any bullish 'x will beat y' comments I tend to ignore.

Reply 3067

Original post by Darth Vader 7

I remember that Barcas team against Inter at the Nou Camp was quite weak. From a quick google search, they had Milito, Toure, Keita and Ibrahimovic playing. They now have David Villa, Sanchez, Fabregas, Iniesta, Abidal and Puyol all relatively fit to play (aside from Villa). We also have to appreciate that this new Barca in terms of cohesion is miles ahead. They play fluently and with ease. I doubt that Inter team or Chelsea team would trouble this new Barcelona team.

Marcelo is rated as one of the better LBs. Ramos is rated as a world class RB and even Pepe as much as I hate him is rated highly. If they are that poor defensively, then why not sign some CBs? He has the funds.

Marcelo is too attacking, not disciplined enough for a defensive minded coach, he's a better version of bosingwa, Ramos is not good defensively when in the RB position, would rather have ivanovic or sagna against barcelona. Pepe is a good CB, but can lose his cool which is a problem, as you have seen before. He did buy varane as a long term replacement for carvalho and albiol can do a good job against all the smaller teams.

I reckon they could, the milan vs inter match a few weeks ago consisted of 90 mins of domination from milan, 1 counter attack by inter and a 1-0 win, with a team as good defensively as that chelsea team or inter in 2010, they could do the job.

One thing I do agree with you, barcelona have improved. In terms of strength in depth, they lacked it in midfield and on the wings, they lack a defence in depth tbh. Bartra and muniesa are good but haven't got a good run in the side, so you don't know how they'll do. Plus abidal is starting to get on, well I don't know from his recent performances but before it looked like he was getting on.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 3068

Original post by Overmars

For me, winning the CL doesn't prove you're the best. Winning the league does. But I do think that Barcelona are the more talented side ability-wise. Long way to go and you can only judge based on what is happening. Any bullish 'x will beat y' comments I tend to ignore.

Exactly, liverpool got the double over chelsea last season, we came 2nd, they came 6th.

Reply 3069

username129099

15

Original post by Overmars

You can only beat what's in front of you. And he's doing that. You can always side with one side over the other in these sorts of silly "they weren't good, the other team were crap" arguments. I've heard it said far too much that Mourinho keeps losing to Barca. My point was that he's beating them in the only thing that counts. The league table is, and always will be, the best method of deciding the best team. I believe Barcelona are the more talented team but if they're not consistent enough to win the league, it doesn't matter.

I'm not saying he's not doing well, you can only beat the teams you play, but no one ever though Madrid were anything less than the second best team in La Liga.

My point is, do you or anyone else for that matter, think Madrid are a better team than Barca this year? No their not, its a hollow victory, and one which will do little to please the Madrid fans or dishearten the Barca fans, unless there is any improvement in their head to heads. Its more a reflection of the point La Liga will have got to where Madrid's aim is thrash the rest of the league, something they have been capable of doing for a long time, and hoping Barca slip up along the way.

If Barca win the CL, the Copa Del Rey, and come second in the league beating Real both ends, everyone knows which the best team in La Liga is. La Liga is such a two horse race, that the rest of the results count for next to nothing in terms of prestige. For Mourhino's reign to be a success he needs to beat Barca, on the pitch, not over the course of other fixtures.

Reply 3070

Original post by Overmars

For me, winning the CL doesn't prove you're the best. Winning the league does. But I do think that Barcelona are the more talented side ability-wise. Long way to go and you can only judge based on what is happening. Any bullish 'x will beat y' comments I tend to ignore.

Surely it does? winning the league proves you have good squad depth but winning the Champions league proves you can continuously beat the top teams in the world. Also winning the league can only give you a status in that respected country and is hardly transferable when comparing to teams around Europe.

I would say Barca > Madrid simply because they have won 5 times, drew 3 and only lost once against Mourinho's Madrid. In all those matches, Barcelona have absolutely dominated Madrid and Mourinho has changed tactics every single match but Pep stayed true to the Barca way and have prevailed almost every time.

Reply 3071

Original post by jam277

Exactly, liverpool got the double over chelsea last season, we came 2nd, they came 6th.

We all know that Liverpool tend to win against big teams and are an exception to an extent. They are a poor team in the league and it has been proven by their lack of a Premier league trophy. Liverpool winning a match against any big team doesn't really give any proof as to how good or bad they are in more recent times.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 3072

Kevmeister

Original post by Darth Vader 7

We all know that Liverpool tend to win against big teams and are an exception to an extent. They are a poor team in the league and it has been proven by their lack of a Premier league trophy. Liverpool winning a match against any big team doesn't really give any proof as to how good or bad they are.

Football did NOT begin in the 92/93 season.

Reply 3073

Original post by Kevmeister

Football did NOT begin in the 92/93 season.

Oh just be quiet. We are talking about the recent Liverpool team. Why do you continue to just troll and interject completely irrelevant facts. I fully well know that the league didn't start in 1992.

Reply 3074

Kevmeister

Original post by Darth Vader 7

Oh just be quiet. We are talking about the recent Liverpool team. Why do you continue to just troll and interject completely irrelevant facts. I fully well know that the league didn't start in 1992.

Its hardly ****ing irrelevant - so are you telling me that you say 'oh, we've won 10 First Div trophies, and 3 Premier Leagues'. Do you ****.

And by the by, Liverpool have come a lot closer in recent seasons than Arsenal.

Reply 3075

Original post by doggyfizzel

I'm not saying he's not doing well, you can only beat the teams you play, but no one ever though Madrid were anything less than the second best team in La Liga.

My point is, do you or anyone else for that matter, think Madrid are a better team than Barca this year? No their not, its a hollow victory, and one which will do little to please the Madrid fans or dishearten the Barca fans, unless there is any improvement in their head to heads. Its more a reflection of the point La Liga will have got to where Madrid's aim is thrash the rest of the league, something they have been capable of doing for a long time, and hoping Barca slip up along the way.

If Barca win the CL, the Copa Del Rey, and come second in the league beating Real both ends, everyone knows which the best team in La Liga is. La Liga is such a two horse race, that the rest of the results count for next to nothing in terms of prestige. For Mourhino's reign to be a success he needs to beat Barca, on the pitch, not over the course of other fixtures.

I have been watching a fair bit of La Liga and I think the notion that the quality of the league is poor is completely false and naive. The quality of football is absolutely superb. And it's why Spain, as a nation, are dominating football. I read recently a stat by Orbinho that placed Mata, Silva and Arteta the best for chance creation in the league. It's no coincidence.

And we're in agreement. As I've kept saying -- Barcelona are the more talented team and have greater ability. IMO, as I've said in other threads, they're probably the best team in history. The very fact that Real Madrid's players aren't better but can still win the league is a reflection on Mourinho's ability as a manager.

This is not a debate about who is better -- Real Madrid or Barcelona. It's about the manager. And who can argue another time when -- over the course of 38 games -- the best team hasn't won the league? Some decent logic would give a lot of credit to the manager for that.

Reply 3076

Original post by Darth Vader 7

Oh just be quiet. We are talking about the recent Liverpool team. Why do you continue to just troll and interject completely irrelevant facts. I fully well know that the league didn't start in 1992.

Liverpool did beat united 4-1 in the 09 season, yet united won the league.
Basically, there are bogey teams, chelsea can lose to liverpool and aston villa twice, but we're still gonna be above them at the end of the season.

Reply 3077

Original post by Darth Vader 7

Surely it does?

The adage 'the league table never lies' exists for a reason. There have been plenty of examples or debate about the best team in Europe not winning the Champions League. How many times have you heard much debate about the best team in the country not winning the league? The league is the bread and butter and has always been the true barometer.

About the rest -- I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but I think people are confused with what I'm saying. Player vs player, Barcelona are the better team ability-wise. Agreed. IF another team can win the league despite this, surely praise has to go to the manager? Consistency is a massively important factor. The most important, in fact.

Reply 3078

Brienza13

anybody else agree?

he is paid 6 million pounds a year to buy average players for a team competeing with City, Man United, Chelsea, Liverpool exc!

his policy of buying building a team around young players have failed!! most have left or turned out to be very average.

why should he be given anymore time when United, Chelsea, City are only going to carry on spending whilst Arsenal will continue to fall backwards due to Arsene's failure to buy quality players.

How many World Class players has be bought since they last one the League....?

Sack him now!

Reply 3079