The Manchester United Thread XIII

Original post by fadhli

dude. dont troll here please.

How exactly is that trolling? Lambert would get a profit on all of those players.

Reply 7081

sevchenko

15

Original post by Wilfred Little

How exactly is that trolling? Lambert would get a profit on all of those players.

Argeed, I'm sure Okore's 4 appearance for Villa made his value sky rocket :tongue:

Reply 7082

username1315644

Original post by Wilfred Little

How exactly is that trolling? Lambert would get a profit on all of those players.

Not a dig, but profit from players is a small club thing. How many players to Real or Bayern make a profit on? The aim is to hold players for the peak years. Could we have sold, Nani or Valencia for a profit in 2010-11 time, I would think so, but we aim to keep those players then not sell them.

Reply 7083

Original post by sevchenko

Argeed, I'm sure Okore's 4 appearance for Villa made his value sky rocket :tongue:

About the only one you could dispute. Chelsea were in for him, one of the highly rated young defenders in Europe tbh.

Can't dispute the others. Didn't even add Lowton or Westwood.

I'm not sure why people are so bothered about me pointing out Fergie's transfers were terrible toward the end :laugh:

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Original post by Fizzel

Not a dig, but profit from players is a small club thing. How many players to Real or Bayern make a profit on? The aim is to hold players for the peak years. Could we have sold, Nani or Valencia for a profit in 2010-11 time, I would think so, but we aim to keep those players then not sell them.

Man Utd pride themselves on being a club that doesn't buy ready made superstars though.

Reply 7084

username1315644

Original post by Wilfred Little

Man Utd pride themselves on being a club that doesn't buy ready made superstars though.

Not really, that's Arsenal. How many academy products have we had make it since 92.

Reply 7085

Original post by Fizzel

Not really, that's Arsenal. How many academy products have we had make it since 92.

Not buying ready made superstars =/= only using academy players.

Reply 7086

asr11

11

Original post by hayles101

I really like it. Can't wait to get it at the end of the Summer.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I'm thinking of getting the new kit for the first time in years lol.

Reply 7087

username1315644

Original post by Wilfred Little

Not buying ready made superstars =/= only using academy players.

Well I meant we generally buy ready made players. Players like Rooney we already on the up, we didn't turn him into a top player, same with Ronaldo. We don't buy ready made superstars because £30m doesn't buy you a ready made superstar for the most part.

Regardless it not something the club prides themselves on, you're mentioning is the first I've heard of it.

Reply 7088

Original post by Wilfred Little

And if my auntie had a cock she'd be a man.

Fantastic. :tongue:

Original post by Wilfred Little

Some of Ferguson's purchases toward the end :biggrin:

Tosic - £14m
Nani - £14m
Anderson - £17m
Hargreaves - £17m
Kagawa - £14m
Berbatov - £30.75m
Young - £17m
Zaha - £15m
Jones - £17m
Valencia - £16m
Smalling - £10m
Bebe - £7.5m

= Best part of £190m.

I think only really De Gea and van Persie can be considered successes tbh.

I have to agree with you Wilf. Scary to read this. I think we bought really poorly in the latter years of Ferguson, but we were able to win trophies with the players we had, so largely he avoided criticism for it. But I think too often (and perhaps because of the financial situation at the club), we went for cheap alternatives, rather than the big expensive available players of the day. It shows, you need to be the very best to work at this club. It's worth paying 30-40M per player because usually they will be the right player. But even then, you could argue, and I certainly would argue, that Berbatov was poor. I'd hope Jones and Smalling will go on to be a success, but they haven't yet.

Some folks will always defend United, they'll defend every player and signing. I'm not one of them. I'll be this club fiercest critic when required. Too often we've bought poorly and your list highlights it.

This is why I advocate signing the big players. Vidal, Reus, Hummels. Even if 40M each, just get it done. More likely to work than a cheaper alternative.

Original post by hayles101

I really like it. Can't wait to get it at the end of the Summer.

Yes I like it as well Hayley. I get tired of listening to people moan about the kits. Generally over the last few years, all of our home kits have been decent.

Reply 7089

Original post by Wilfred Little

Man Utd pride themselves on being a club that doesn't buy ready made superstars though.

Manchester United have a number of 'traditions', which I've argued that if we continue to pursue will lead the club to ruin. I've glad the nonsense of 'sticking with our managers' and 'only hiring British managers' has gone out the window with the managerial change. United should be no different from Chelsea or City, we should be buying the 30-40M ready made superstars and changing managers regularly. All of these are lesser evils than not having success.

Reply 7090

Original post by Fizzel

Well I meant we generally buy ready made players. Players like Rooney we already on the up, we didn't turn him into a top player, same with Ronaldo. We don't buy ready made superstars because £30m doesn't buy you a ready made superstar for the most part.

Regardless it not something the club prides themselves on, you're mentioning is the first I've heard of it.

I think it definitely is something the club prides themselves on, the exceptions were van Persie, Berbatov and Veron, the latter frequently being used by United fans as an example of how the club rarely buy top players, instead buying prospects.

Original post by Eboracum

I have to agree with you Wilf. Scary to read this. I think we bought really poorly in the latter years of Ferguson, but we were able to win trophies with the players we had, so largely he avoided criticism for it. But I think too often (and perhaps because of the financial situation at the club), we went for cheap alternatives, rather than the big expensive available players of the day. It shows, you need to be the very best to work at this club. It's worth paying 30-40M per player because usually they will be the right player. But even then, you could argue, and I certainly would argue, that Berbatov was poor. I'd hope Jones and Smalling will go on to be a success, but they haven't yet.

Some folks will always defend United, they'll defend every player and signing. I'm not one of them. I'll be this club fiercest critic when required. Too often we've bought poorly and your list highlights it.

This is why I advocate signing the big players. Vidal, Reus, Hummels. Even if 40M each, just get it done. More likely to work than a cheaper alternative.

Evening Eboracum, hope you and your family are doing well.

Have to say that was a fair assessment. Agree with every word.

Reply 7091

Manchester United

Original post by hayles101

I really like it. Can't wait to get it at the end of the Summer.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I'm getting it ASAP.

Januzaj 44 :biggrin:

Perhaps I should wait, to make sure he will actually be #44 next year. I'd give him #7, pile the pressure on. That's what he needs.

Reply 7092

Original post by Wilfred Little

Evening Eboracum, hope you and your family are doing well.

Have to say that was a fair assessment. Agree with every word.

Evening Wilf. All fine thanks. Hope you are your family are well. And I have to say I've read a few of your posts over the last day or two and I find myself constantly agreeing with you on a number of topics, including non-United related.

We've just allowed the standard of the squad to drop probably since our 2002/2003 winning team, but certainly since our 2007/2008 double winning side. Players like Nani, Ashley Young, Berbatov and Phil Jones can in no way be considered a success given what came before them. Berbatov I was looking for another van Nistelrooy. Nani I was looking for a player to be 90% as good and consistent as Ronaldo. Phil Jones I was thinking in 3/4 years he'd be as good as Ferdinand/Terry in their peak. After all, we're Manchester United, and we paid big money for them so why not expect this?

We were able to win trophies because we had really good players in other positions that carried them. In his peak Vidic was the best defender in Europe, van Nistelrooy was the best striker in the PL, we had Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, and then van Persie in 2013. But if you took these out we'd struggle.

If I was manager, I'd get rid of: Cleverley, Ashley Young, Anderson, Nani and then also Hernandez and Kagawa would also be available for the right cost. You'd have to give Fellaini another year, but I'm expecting him to be a massive failure.

I'd bring in three players in the next month: a CDM top priority whatever the cost. We need a player like Yaya Toure, we haven't replaced Roy Keane yet, and he left in 2006 for pete's sake. We need a winger, as none of Valencia, Young and Nani are good enough, and we need at least one defender maybe 2. Thomas V at Arsenal is ok, but if he arrives we need somebody else as well.

Just get it done Van Gaal. I won't settle for anything less than first next year. To finish 4th and then celebrate would be a travesty for the biggest club in the world.

Always a pleasure Wilf.

Reply 7093

Original post by Eboracum

I'd bring in three players in the next month: a CDM top priority whatever the cost. We need a player like Yaya Toure, we haven't replaced Roy Keane yet, and he left in 2006 for pete's sake. We need a winger, as none of Valencia, Young and Nani are good enough, and we need at least one defender maybe 2. Thomas V at Arsenal is ok, but if he arrives we need somebody else as well.

Just get it done Van Gaal. I won't settle for anything less than first next year. To finish 4th and then celebrate would be a travesty for the biggest club in the world.

Always a pleasure Wilf.

This has to be a concern for you. Rio and Vidic gone and no replacement. You were linked with Garay a while back, what's going on with that? Who are your defenders now? Just Jones, Evans and Smalling?

You can forget about signing Vlaar by the way :mad:

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Reply 7094

jam278

10

Original post by Fizzel

Well I meant we generally buy ready made players. Players like Rooney we already on the up, we didn't turn him into a top player, same with Ronaldo. We don't buy ready made superstars because £30m doesn't buy you a ready made superstar for the most part.

Regardless it not something the club prides themselves on, you're mentioning is the first I've heard of it.

You buy ready made players, but they're generally youngsters. Bayern are a special case. They only get ready made superstars on the cheap, they're essentially Juventus with an extra 50M to spend each year. Honestly think Bayern has the same amount of pull as Chelsea and City. We are slightly less stringent with our wages than Bayern and are willing to pay transfer fees. If you look at the profile of player Bayern buy, how many of them are superstars and if they are were they the main man for a team around their pulling level? Ribery was in France, Robben was an outcast, Gotze was for a smaller club, Martinez, Mandzukic, Lewandowski etc. They're just a team with a good homegrown midfield and a lot of balance in the side. They're not in the same league as Madrid and Barca, despite their success on the field in recent seasons.

Madrid and Barca will buy players during their peak years(Suarez, Bale, Ronaldo etc.) or get a man who's highly coveted before anybody else has the chance(Neymar/Isco).

Reply 7095

Original post by Wilfred Little

This has to be a concern for you. Rio and Vidic gone and no replacement. You were linked with Garay a while back, what's going on with that? Who are your defenders now? Just Jones, Evans and Smalling?

You can forget about signing Vlaar by the way :mad:

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It's a massive concern for me Wilf, because simply put: we haven't signed the right players to address our areas of concern. Last season I plant 60% of the blame on the manager, and we've addressed that by upgrading, but 40% of the blame was because of a poor squad, and it hasn't been addressed. I feel big problems lie in midfield as I argued, but you are correct, defence is a massive issue.

The key point is this: there is never a good time to get the perfect signing. It's like asking out a hot girl. There is never a good time, romantic, nice light breeze, nobody around. You have to create that opportunity for it to be the right time. And it's the same with top players. You have to go to the best clubs and persuade the best players to leave. It's not easy, but it's what's required to get to the top.

I was in favour of Ferdinand leaving, because I felt for several years he was passed his best. When you can't win a sprint race with Edin Dzeko your time at United is probably up. I'd have kept Vidic for another year or two ideally, but in reality there was always going to be a painful time to change. And unfortunately, none of Smalling, Jones and Evans have delivered to the required standard. They are backups at best at this time.

So he's got to go out and get defenders. One minimum, ideally two. I think he got the best out of a Dutch squad that tbh wasn't the third best international squad at the World Cup, he's just a good manager. Vlaar was probably better for Netherlands than for Villa, I heard Villa fans slagging him off. I wouldn't fancy him. Same with Garay, he was sold by Madrid a while ago because he wasn't considered good enough. I'd go for Vermaelen and Hummels. Of course, you could make a case for a new RB as well, Coleman? But that would be another 30M.

I'm incredibly concerned Wilf. We need five players minimum this Summer. And the combination of Van Gaal and Manchester United should have as much pull as anyone. Your views?

Reply 7096

Endless Blue

19

Original post by Eboracum

The key point is this: there is never a good time to get the perfect signing. It's like asking out a hot girl. There is never a good time, romantic, nice light breeze, nobody around. You have to create that opportunity for it to be the right time. And it's the same with top players. You have to go to the best clubs and persuade the best players to leave. It's not easy, but it's what's required to get to the top.

When you can't win a sprint race with Edin Dzeko your time at United is probably up.

Both bits are brilliant.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 7097

iamu

8

Original post by hayles101

I really like it. Can't wait to get it at the end of the Summer.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Looks cheap. Wasn't a fan of last season kit either.

Can't wait until Adidas start making our kits tho, hnnng

Reply 7098

Manchester United