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Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? - Mk II
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Original post by Good bloke
You should just accept that Andy Murray is sick of Salmond's antics, which have obviously embarrassed and angered him personally.
It'll be interesting to see how much Salmond tries to politicise the Commonwealth Games.
Murray's comment about supporting anyone other than England was an obvious joke. That his mother supports the SNP tells us nothing about Murray's own beliefs (or even that his mother necessarily supports independence).
It'll be interesting to see how much Salmond tries to politicise the Commonwealth Games.
Murray's comment about supporting anyone other than England was an obvious joke. That his mother supports the SNP tells us nothing about Murray's own beliefs (or even that his mother necessarily supports independence).
Oh yeah, and in answer to your comment, "how much Salmond tries to politicise the Commonwealth Games"? Not at all.
Original post by godd
We have to look at the country as a whole, we are much stronger together than apart. We don't want to become someone the world shuns because we don't have the power we used to have.
I can't see how this benefits the UK or Scotland. This is like splitting up the United States into 50 states, no one would give a damn about the new 50 independent countries then.
I can't see how this benefits the UK or Scotland. This is like splitting up the United States into 50 states, no one would give a damn about the new 50 independent countries then.
Who cares? The world doesn't shun countries such as Denmark, Norway etc. I don't care about other countries "giving a damn" about us, I just want to live in a fairer society.
Original post by Mechie
Who cares? The world doesn't shun countries such as Denmark, Norway etc. I don't care about other countries "giving a damn" about us, I just want to live in a fairer society.
Denmark and Norway hold no gravitas on the world stage. The same will happen to the UK if we split up. Then the UK will have absolutely no say on the EU.
You want a fairer society? Go to North Korea.
UK will most likely be out of the G8 as well if this goes ahead.
Original post by godd
Denmark and Norway hold no gravitas on the world stage. The same will happen to the UK if we split up. Then the UK will have absolutely no say on the EU.
Good. Who cares if they "hold gravitas on the world stage"? They have fairer, happier societies, and that's the sort of place I want my country to be.
You want a fairer society? Go to North Korea.
Nice, you do know North Korea is about the most unfair society in the world?
UK will most likely be out of the G8 as well if this goes ahead.
I think by my last post you should have got that I don't particularly care about power on the world stage. I want to live in a nice country, not one with loads of power, lol.
Yes
Just so they'll stop the ****ing moaning
Just so they'll stop the ****ing moaning
Original post by godd
We have to look at the country as a whole, we are much stronger together than apart. We don't want to become someone the world shuns because we don't have the power we used to have.
I can't see how this benefits the UK or Scotland. This is like splitting up the United States into 50 states, no one would give a damn about the new 50 independent countries then.
I can't see how this benefits the UK or Scotland. This is like splitting up the United States into 50 states, no one would give a damn about the new 50 independent countries then.
Not really.
Its like 8% of the population breaking away. eg California, or New York and Massachusetts. I'm pretty sure people would still give a damn about them and the rest.
Would the rUK really have much less power if it only had 92% of its current population, and 89% of its current GDP?
I think it would be good for the world if Britain had less influence. The country has about 0.89% of the world's population and yet has the sixth highest military spend in the world and it has spent my entire adult life fighting illegal wars.
Also, what good has it been being powerful for the vast majority of us? We live in a country with houses that even young professionals can't afford and we have an enormous public debt that is going to drag us down for decades. Being powerful is only useful for a few politicians, people like David Cameron who can go to the G8 and act against our interests and in favour of his rich donors; it's done nothing for us.
It's interesting you talk about Norway because whilst they might not be in the G8 they have one of the highest (if not the highest) standards of living in the world. Australia, also not in the G8, is right up there as well. This isn't a matter of socialism or conservatism but simply the result of countries looking out for their citizens (and without Britain's negative influence in Europe, the EU could make our lives a lot better to). Britain in contrast, because of the high cost of living, has pretty much the worst standard of living in Western Europe.
Scottish independence won't just be good for Scotland, it will be good for the vast majority of English people too. Wrestle power from British politician's hands and let them start acting for the people who elect them rather than massaging their egos by bombing the Middle East.
Also, what good has it been being powerful for the vast majority of us? We live in a country with houses that even young professionals can't afford and we have an enormous public debt that is going to drag us down for decades. Being powerful is only useful for a few politicians, people like David Cameron who can go to the G8 and act against our interests and in favour of his rich donors; it's done nothing for us.
It's interesting you talk about Norway because whilst they might not be in the G8 they have one of the highest (if not the highest) standards of living in the world. Australia, also not in the G8, is right up there as well. This isn't a matter of socialism or conservatism but simply the result of countries looking out for their citizens (and without Britain's negative influence in Europe, the EU could make our lives a lot better to). Britain in contrast, because of the high cost of living, has pretty much the worst standard of living in Western Europe.
Scottish independence won't just be good for Scotland, it will be good for the vast majority of English people too. Wrestle power from British politician's hands and let them start acting for the people who elect them rather than massaging their egos by bombing the Middle East.
Original post by godd
Denmark and Norway hold no gravitas on the world stage. The same will happen to the UK if we split up. Then the UK will have absolutely no say on the EU.
You want a fairer society? Go to North Korea.
UK will most likely be out of the G8 as well if this goes ahead.
You want a fairer society? Go to North Korea.
UK will most likely be out of the G8 as well if this goes ahead.
Yeah, and their populations are so so annoyed about it. They hate their high standard of living.
The rUK would still be massive compared to Denmark. Why would the UK have much less say than today in the EU?
Original post by Boab
Even the Daily Mail is panicking lol
Even the Daily Mail is panicking lol
I don't see why. This big swing you are wittering about takes the Survation figure for the no lead back to 1% better than it was at the beginning of July, with the no vote up 2% and the yes vote up 1% from that time.
You didn't mention the identical swing against independence at the publication of the intervening poll.
The no campaign is leading.
(edited 9 years ago)
The UK will still have a population of over 55 million. Scotland only accounts for about 8% of the population. The only reasons Cameron wants to keep the Union are:
1) He's a Tory, so he's expected to;
2) Oil (which almost all belongs to Scotland under international law, regardless of what anyone says).
1) He's a Tory, so he's expected to;
2) Oil (which almost all belongs to Scotland under international law, regardless of what anyone says).
I think the climax of this will be massively underwhelming for Scottish people.
I'd rather they didn't vote for independence but two great things will come out of it if the vote does go that way:
1. Alex Salmond's ego and the pride Scotland would go down the drain after they fail
2. Labour would lose 40+ seats so consequently reducing their chances of getting into power again
1. Alex Salmond's ego and the pride Scotland would go down the drain after they fail
2. Labour would lose 40+ seats so consequently reducing their chances of getting into power again
Original post by Boab
Even the Daily Mail is panicking lol
Even the Daily Mail is panicking lol
So all he had to do was repeat 'sovereign will of the Scottish people' and that has actually persuaded people?
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Original post by Good bloke
I don't see why. This big swing you are wittering about takes the Survation figure for the no lead back to 1% better than it was at the beginning of July, with the no vote up 2% and the yes vote up 1% from that time.
You didn't mention the identical swing against independence at the publication of the intervening poll.
The no campaign is leading.
You didn't mention the identical swing against independence at the publication of the intervening poll.
The no campaign is leading.
Problem is that less than 50% No in any poll is not comfortable by any stretch of the imagination. What all the polls are showing that whoever does win is not going to win by much and huge numbers will be left disappointed by the outcome.
This is what years of Salmond's divisive BS and weak campaigning from BT has done.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Midlander
So all he had to do was repeat 'sovereign will of the Scottish people' and that has actually persuaded people? Posted from TSR Mobile
More to the debate than that.
The YES position has consistently been that the more people that engage in a debate, whether that be on TV or at town halls etc etc, the more turn to YES.
Whatever reason for that, it does appear to be showing in the narrowing of the polls...
53/47 in a poll from the Daily Mail - changed days from Mature Students 67/33 claims.
Three weeks to go, more and more people will engage in the debate, and there is still plenty of undecideds to be persuaded.
Original post by The Right
I'd rather they didn't vote for independence but two great things will come out of it if the vote does go that way:
1. Alex Salmond's ego and the pride Scotland would go down the drain after they fail
2. Labour would lose 40+ seats so consequently reducing their chances of getting into power again
1. Alex Salmond's ego and the pride Scotland would go down the drain after they fail
2. Labour would lose 40+ seats so consequently reducing their chances of getting into power again
Why would they fail?
Since the economy is Scotland is stronger than that of the rUK at the very least they're likely to 'fail less than the rUK'.
Original post by Boab
More to the debate than that.
The YES position has consistently been that the more people that engage in a debate, whether that be on TV or at town halls etc etc, the more turn to YES.
Whatever reason for that, it does appear to be showing in the narrowing of the polls...
53/47 in a poll from the Daily Mail - changed days from Mature Students 67/33 claims.
Three weeks to go, more and more people will engage in the debate, and there is still plenty of undecideds to be persuaded.
The YES position has consistently been that the more people that engage in a debate, whether that be on TV or at town halls etc etc, the more turn to YES.
Whatever reason for that, it does appear to be showing in the narrowing of the polls...
53/47 in a poll from the Daily Mail - changed days from Mature Students 67/33 claims.
Three weeks to go, more and more people will engage in the debate, and there is still plenty of undecideds to be persuaded.
It isn't helped that by virtue of being those supporting a 'No' vote Better Together and unionists are immediately carrying a perception of negativity. People want to believe in bright futures and positivity and so people who put it under scrutiny appear to be the Scrooges of the debate when in actuality they are trying to get answers which will provide a more realistic impression of independence.
Just the other day we had a Scottish business leader trying to claim that Westminster charged Scottish businesses for help breaking into foreign markets but let English ones do so for free. Why say something like that if not to create antagonism towards your neighbours? It is the 'us and them' type rhetoric which is characteristic of all nationalists (by that I mean worldwide) and one which I fear will go unchecked in an independent Scotland.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Midlander
It isn't helped that by virtue of being those supporting a 'No' vote Better Together and unionists are immediately carrying a perception of negativity. People want to believe in bright futures and positivity and so people who put it under scrutiny appear to be the Scrooges of the debate when in actuality they are trying to get answers which will provide a more realistic impression of independence.
Yes there is a help for YES there. Kind of obliterated by the MSM being almost entirely camped on the NO side though!
But you're right, it is passion and hope that will carry YES through. It simply can't, or at least, hasn't, been replicated on the NO side.
You might dislike the girl in this video, but it is the passion from grassroots campaigners like this that are turning the undecideds around...
[video]http://www.frequency.com/video/lanarkshire-lass-kat-boyd-making-very/188474244?cid=5-9852[/video]
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Midlander
Just the other day we had a Scottish business leader trying to claim that Westminster charged Scottish businesses for help breaking into foreign markets but let English ones do so for free. Why say something like that if not to create antagonism towards your neighbours?
Erm, if it's true, he has every right to say it, because it would be a farcical situation.
Original post by Boab
Yes there is a help for YES there. Kind of obliterated by the MSM being almost entirely camped on the NO side though!
But you're right, it is passion and hope that will carry YES through. It simply can't, or at least, hasn't, been replicated on the NO side.
You might dislike the girl in this video, but it is the passion from grassroots campaigners like this that are turning the undecideds around...
[video]http://www.frequency.com/video/lanarkshire-lass-kat-boyd-making-very/188474244?cid=5-9852[/video]
But you're right, it is passion and hope that will carry YES through. It simply can't, or at least, hasn't, been replicated on the NO side.
You might dislike the girl in this video, but it is the passion from grassroots campaigners like this that are turning the undecideds around...
[video]http://www.frequency.com/video/lanarkshire-lass-kat-boyd-making-very/188474244?cid=5-9852[/video]
MSM?
Posted from TSR Mobile
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