The Student Room Group

White student stabbed in racist attack. Police refuse to call it a racist attack.

Scroll to see replies

Original post by sophus18x
This seems like pure ignorance.
I pride myself, as a white person, that I am able to live in such a multicultural country. Yes I understand that there are issues between the races but for such a bold statement as 'Islam has no place in the UK' is the sort of things that ignite such racial abusive behaviours.

Islam is simply a religion, so do Jews, Hindus etc therefore have no place in the UK as well then?


Don't be naive to think Islam is just a religion
Original post by Chlorophile
Yet another example of someone exploiting a disgusting crime to support their xenophobic attitudes towards society. The problem here is the fact that a boy was stabbed, not that there's some kind of "cover up" by the "police of political correctness" that you've no doubt convinced yourself runs this country.



Yet another example of someone exploiting a disgusting crime to support their xenophobic attitudes towards society.

That’s completely false. The point the OP is making is that this was a clear cut racist hate crime, but yet the police refuse to label it as such. They do this because at the end of the year and you have to start adding up the crimes it could be a game changer.

The police are guilty of covering up the realities about life in britian. When channel 4 made an undercover mosque documentary the police called a press confrence and decided that they must bring charges against channel 4 for editing the show to make it appear that the speakers were saying things they never said. This was outragous behaviour by the police, who later appoloigized to channel 4. The reason why the police tried to sabotarge the show is because they do not wanat regular people knowing what goes on in mosques.

West Midlands Police then complained to Ofcom that the programme had been subject to such an intensity of editing that those who had been featured in the programme had been misrepresented (creating an unfair, unjust and inaccurate perception of both some speakers and sections of the Muslim community within the West Midlands); the footage had been edited in a way that resulted in material being broadcast in a form so altered from the form originally delivered that it was “sufficient to undermine community cohesion”; and the programme was “likely to undermine feelings of public reassurance and safety of those communities in the West Midlands for which the Chief Constable has a responsibility”.
On 15 May 2008 when the matter came to the High Court, West Midlands Police and the Crown Prosecution Service apologised to the makers of the documentary for accusing them of distortion and agreed to a payment of £100,000. The statement, released to the media by West Midlands Police, after the High Court hearing, said they now accepted there had been no evidence that Channel 4 or the documentary makers had "misled the audience or that the programme was likely to encourage or incite criminal activity".
It added that the Ofcom report showed the documentary had "accurately represented the material it had gathered and dealt with the subject matter responsibly and in context". The police statement concluded: "We accept, without reservation, the conclusions of Ofcom and apologise to the programme makers for the damage and distress caused by our original press release." The same statement was later posted on the Crown Prosecution Service website.
Kevin Sutcliffe, deputy head of current affairs at Channel 4, said the apology was a vindication of the programme team in exposing extreme views. "Channel 4 was fully aware of the sensitivities surrounding the subject matter but recognised the programme's findings were clearly a matter of important public interest. "The authorities should be doing all they can to encourage investigations like this, not attempting to publicly rubbish them for reasons they have never properly explained," he said. Channel 4 boss Julian Bellamy said they had had no choice but to pursue action when the police and CPS refused to withdraw their remarks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercover_Mosque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercover_Mosque
undercover mosque http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2515587181120245843


So muslims were teaching muslims islam in major UK mosques and the police accused channel 4 is "distortion".

So the same applies to racist crimes against white people, the police fear of a backlash so to protect their own interests they turn a blind eye to white people/children being abused and beaten.

Somali Muslims stamped on a white womans head while racially abusing the woman in a unprovoked attack. The judge let them walk seen as though they were Muslims and not used to getting drinking:

A gang of Somalian women who repeatedly kicked a young woman in the head walked free from court after a judge heard they were "not used to being drunk" because they were Muslim.
The four women - three sisters and their cousin - were told the charge of actual bodily harm, which carries a maximum sentence of five years, against 22-year-old care worker Rhea Page would normally land them in custody.
However, the judge handed the women suspended sentences after hearing that they were not used to alcohol because their religion does not allow it. She said: "I had gone for a drink after work and then I met my boyfriend for a couple more before heading home.
"We didn't want to stay out too late so we went to get a taxi and all of a sudden I heard these women shouting abuse at me.
"We were just minding our own business but they kept shouting 'white bitch' and 'white slag' at me.
"When I turned around one of them grabbed my hair - she literally wrapped her fingers in my hair - then threw me on the ground. That's when they started kicking me.
"They were taking turns to kick me in the head and back over and over. I was lying on the ground the whole time, crying and screaming. It was terrifying. I thought they were going to kill me. "I honestly think they attacked me just because I was white. I can't think of any other reason." Sentencing, Judge Robert Brown said: "This was ugly and reflects very badly on all four of you. Those who knock someone to the floor and kick them in the head can expect to go inside, but I'm going to suspend the sentence."
During the hearing, James Bide-Thomas, prosecuting, said Ambaro Maxamed, who started the violence, had called Miss Page a "white bitch" during the incident.
However, the women, who are all Somalian Muslims, were not charged with racial aggravation.
"They're Somalian Muslims and alcohol or drugs isn't something they're used to." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8937856/Muslim-women-not-used-to-drinking-walk-free-after-attack-on-woman.html


So "drinking" is not allowed in islam, but whatr about 'stamping on the heads of 'white kaffirs', thats islam isnt it?

(i challenge anyone who denies my claim to debate my claim that attacking white kaffirs is 100% authentic islam).

Who thinks that if non muslims in a muslim country who launch an unprovoked (or even provoked) attack against muslims will be allowed to walk away?


The problem here is the fact that a boy was stabbed, not that there's some kind of "cover up" by the "police of political correctness" that you've no doubt convinced yourself runs this country.

Have you erver heard of “hate crimes”? A hate crime is not that a victim has been hurt, a hate crime is the motivation for the attack. You only want to look at the fact that a boy was stabbed, but bizaarely you want to ignore the racial factors which appear to have been the motivation for the attack. Why would you do that? only you know.
Original post by capitalismstinks
This is a good point. I think it's because white people have no legitimate anti-racism groups on their side -- which is outrageous considering how many human rights and anti-racism organisations there are.

The only people speaking out at the moment are extremist groups. Which puts a lot of white people off from getting involved.

The power structure clearly is not on white peoples side, so i suppose its up to white people themselves to organise their own anti-racist, anti-violence movements.



It's not that, it's because we're afraid of being called hypocrites.
Reply 63
Has the victim said anything about this being a racially motivated attack? Let's refrain from making assumptions. Whites, being the majority in Britain are just going to be more likely to be a victim of any crime. That's just a matter of fact. Depending on where they are at the time, they may be attacked by another white person or even an ethnic minority.
It's not the best parallel, but if a straight man got attacked by a group of gays, in close proximity to a gay bar, it would make sense to assume that the crime was motivated by his sexuality. Although when I'm reverse it's a lot more convincing and sensible.
Better to maintain the lie that mass immigration and multiculturalism are a blessing for this country.
Original post by Chlorophile
Yet another example of someone exploiting a disgusting crime to support their xenophobic attitudes towards society. The problem here is the fact that a boy was stabbed, not that there's some kind of "cover up" by the "police of political correctness" that you've no doubt convinced yourself runs this country.

and yet when an Asian is stabbed for being Asian you'll start whining about it like a left-wing bitch?
Original post by Chlorophile
Today, The Guardian wrote an article on how UKIP (and its supporters) are capitalising on the Rotherham sex scandal to gain votes and popularity from people looking for scapegoats. You fit this description perfectly. You are making up a problem.

I wouldn't tell anyone they're being racist for only focussing on a particular type of prejudice - that's not racism, and I'm not calling you racist (on the basis of this anyway). However, contrary to racism against black people and Islamophobia, racism against white people is an incredibly marginal problem. It's not the large scale issue you're pretending it is.

What a ****ing surprise...... So is it true all- Guardian readers hate Britain?

Guardian- the only paper which could criticise The Tower of London poppy display and claim we should "get over it".

In the 40/50s we hung communists......
Original post by Time Tourist
Better to maintain the lie that mass immigration and multiculturalism are a blessing for this country.

This.
Original post by Truths
Whites, being the majority in Britain are just going to be more likely to be a victim of any crime. That's just a matter of fact.


Not really... if you have fewer ethnic minorities than white people technically speaking it's easier for those ethnic minorities to be more likely to be the victim of an attack.

Say for example you have a population of 100 with only 20% being ethnic minorities. 1 person from each group is a victim of racism. That mean a white person has a 1 in 80 chance of being a victim while an ethnic minority has a 1 in 20 chance, basically being 4 times more likely of being a victim.

Looking at reality around 87,000 ethnic minorities suffer racist crimes, with around 49,000 being violent with 4,00 being wounded. However white people suffered 92,000 but with 77,000 being violent crimes while 20,000 were wounded.

It's weird, statistically, yes an ethnic minority is more likely to suffer racism, but they're also statistically more likely to engage in racist behaviour against white people.

Basically a lower proportion of white people are racist, if it was even the same you would see a much higher rate of racist crimes against ethnic minorities.

People who say only the minority of racist crimes affect white people need to wake up.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Chlorophile
If your agenda were anti-racism, you'd be focussing your attention on the extreme levels of prejudice of the British public against Muslims
This may not be a bun-fight I want to get involved in, but why is it an either/or?

If racism is more or less a universal human phenomenon then we should expect and condemn it from all races. If racism is considered a white-only phenomenon, then this seems to undermine the case for racial equality: if white Brits can be afflicted by some original sin that makes them uniquely worse than other races, why not blacks, asians, or the French?

I am not going to deny that there are racist incidents against white people but they are vastly outnumbered - to a ridiculous extent - by racist incidents by white British people against people of other nationalities.

Perhaps, but his claim is that racist incidents directed against the white British population often aren't defined as such. If that claim is true then how do we know the relative proportions?
Original post by Chlorophile
I am not going to deny that there are racist incidents against white people but they are vastly outnumbered - to a ridiculous extent - by racist incidents by white British people against people of other nationalities.


Not statistically true. Ethnic minorities are the most likely to receive and also commit racist crimes + attacks.

More racist crimes, attacks and attacks that result in wounds are committed against white people more than any other ethnic group combined.
Original post by DanB1991
Not really... if you have fewer ethnic minorities than white people technically speaking it's easier for those ethnic minorities to be more likely to be the victim of an attack.

Say for example you have a population of 100 with only 20% being ethnic minorities. 1 person from each group is a victim of racism. That mean a white person has a 1 in 80 chance of being a victim while an ethnic minority has a 1 in 20 chance, basically being 4 times more likely of being a victim.

Looking at reality around 87,000 ethnic minorities suffer racist crimes, with around 49,000 being violent with 4,00 being wounded. However white people suffered 92,000 but with 77,000 being violent crimes while 20,000 were wounded.

It's weird, statistically, yes an ethnic minority is more likely to suffer racism, but they're also statistically more likely to engage in racist behaviour against white people.

Basically a lower proportion of white people are racist, if it was even the same you would see a much higher rate of racist crimes against ethnic minorities.

What seems more likely to me is that most racist crimes happen in places where there's a close balance between the numbers of different races, or else substantial areas dominated by one race close by other such areas dominated by other races.

To commit a racist crime people need to feel that they have somewhere safe to retreat to, but they also need an available victim. Whites don't commit much racist crime in white areas because there aren't many non-whites to attack, and non-whites don't commit much racist crime in white areas because they cannot flee into a community of sympathisers who will protect them. There are a few such areas that are equivalent for non-whites, e.g. Tower Hamlets.

So racist crime probably occurs in a few 'battleground areas' where whites and non-whites are roughly evenly distributed. This would explain a roughly equal number of offences in your statistics, although not the disproportionate amount and level of violence used by non-whites.
Original post by Observatory
What seems more likely to me is that most racist crimes happen in places where there's a close balance between the numbers of different races, or else substantial areas dominated by one race close by other such areas dominated by other races.

To commit a racist crime people need to feel that they have somewhere safe to retreat to, but they also need an available victim. Whites don't commit much racist crime in white areas because there aren't many non-whites to attack, and non-whites don't commit much racist crime in white areas because they cannot flee into a community of sympathisers who will protect them. There are a few such areas that are equivalent for non-whites, e.g. Tower Hamlets.

So racist crime probably occurs in a few 'battleground areas' where whites and non-whites are roughly evenly distributed. This would explain a roughly equal number of offences in your statistics, although not the disproportionate amount and level of violence used by non-whites.


Problem in that theory compared to common belief white people are more racist, there would be more racist crimes committed by white people.

Also your theory of people needing somewhere safe to retreat to contradicts your first paragraph, that would result in more crimes in white dominated area's.

Tbh no in depth study regarding racism or even theoretical model concerning racism has been made, apart from theories concerning london, but that's londoncentricity for you.

You be interesting to see racist crime rate of somewhere like london or leicester compared to a white dominated city or town.
Reply 73
Original post by DanB1991
Not really... if you have fewer ethnic minorities than white people technically speaking it's easier for those ethnic minorities to be more likely to be the victim of an attack.

The phrasing of this is all wrong. There are so many factors that result in ethnic minorities facing so many hate crimes. It's more than just numbers.
But for crime in general, most offenders are not motivated by race. Victims (with no relations to the offender) tend to be the easiest most accessible people, and in most regions in the UK, these people are white. Because white people are everywhere. It's not rocket science.


Original post by DanB1991
Say for example you have a population of 100 with only 20% being ethnic minorities. 1 person from each group is a victim of racism. That mean a white person has a 1 in 80 chance of being a victim while an ethnic minority has a 1 in 20 chance, basically being 4 times more likely of being a victim.


Lol. That's not even real math.


Original post by DanB1991
Looking at reality around 87,000 ethnic minorities suffer racist crimes, with around 49,000 being violent with 4,00 being wounded. However white people suffered 92,000 but with 77,000 being violent crimes while 20,000 were wounded.

Even if those statistics were true, they still show that minorities suffer race crimes at higher rates. White people are the majority, so their quantity will be larger, but once you measure these crimes by population, whites suffer disproportionately less.


Original post by DanB1991
It's weird, statistically, yes an ethnic minority is more likely to suffer racism, but they're also statistically more likely to engage in racist behaviour against white people.

Basically a lower proportion of white people are racist,


According to who?

Original post by Truths
The phrasing of this is all wrong. There are so many factors that result in ethnic minorities facing so many hate crimes. It's more than just numbers.
But for crime in general, most offenders are not motivated by race. Victims (with no relations to the offender) tend to be the easiest most accessible people, and in most regions in the UK, these people are white. Because white people are everywhere. It's not rocket science.


Yes, but then if white people were equally likely to attack an ethnic minority you would actually see more attacks from ethnic minorities than white people



Original post by Truths
Lol. That's not even real math.


Point was to show how the smaller population can be statistically more likely to suffer racist abuse even though less is committed against them.


Original post by Truths
Even if those statistics were true, they still show that minorities suffer race crimes at higher rates. White people are the majority, so their quantity will be larger, but once you measure these crimes by population, whites suffer disproportionately less.


Kind of what I was saying, White people suffer more racist crime, but due to their population are less likely to experience it.

The point your missing is, if both sides were equally as likely as committing racist crimes you would see more overall racist crimes against ethnic minorities than white people.



Original post by Truths
According to who?



Well at least less racist in terms of actually going out and committing racism to someone's face (which equals a reportable crime).... also a piece undertaken not too long ago that the amount of racist between different ethnic minorities was shockingly high.

You are allowed to look at research and draw your own conclusions using logic

(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by DanB1991
Problem in that theory compared to common belief white people are more racist, there would be more racist crimes committed by white people.

Fine, you won't get much disagreement from me here. I think people are intrinsically all about as racist as one another, while there is much more social pressure on whites not to express racism than on non-whites. On the other hand, historically most non-whites have lived in white-dominated areas; this is changing however.

Also your theory of people needing somewhere safe to retreat to contradicts your first paragraph, that would result in more crimes in white dominated area's.

It would reduce the cost to whites of committing racist crimes, yes. However it would not increase the availability of victims. We would not expect to see the most racist crimes in rural Cornwall simply because there is hardly anyone there to victimise! They are two counter-acting mechanisms that, I propose, tend to result in most racist crime occurring in the most diverse areas.

It is also possible that the police should be regarded more as a white institution than a non-white one, if they are not able to operate as effectively in non-white areas, which in this model means that whites are much less safe fleeing into their community after committing racist crimes than non-whites. This might explain an imbalance in victimisation.

Tbh no in depth study regarding racism or even theoretical model concerning racism has been made, apart from theories concerning london, but that's londoncentricity for you.

London is probably a reasonable model, since it's a majority minority city. If immigration is not stopped then London is what the whole country will become. One thing that is striking is that London is quite a lot like an American city in terms of the extremities of its wealth and success, and its criminal no-go ghettos. Perhaps there are more studies in America.

You be interesting to see racist crime rate of somewhere like london or leicester compared to a white dominated city or town.

No doubt much lower, but again, what is the key factor? Fewer non-whites to commit racist crimes, or fewer non-whites for whites to attack?

From my own limited reading the key problem in interpreting all racial victimisation studies is normalisation: different normalisations can show almost any trend you want. I've never seen a study that normalises based on the relative availability of victims and safety of attackers, possibly because it's very difficult to do.
Original post by Observatory
Fine, you won't get much disagreement from me here. I think people are intrinsically all about as racist as one another, while there is much more social pressure on whites not to express racism than on non-whites. On the other hand, historically most non-whites have lived in white-dominated areas; this is changing however.


Tbh I think intrinsically, yes your right. However socialisation plays a big factor. There are certain ethnic groups I do think are more prone to racism than others purely due to cultural and social factors.

Original post by Observatory
It would reduce the cost to whites of committing racist crimes, yes. However it would not increase the availability of victims. We would not expect to see the most racist crimes in rural Cornwall simply because there is hardly anyone there to victimise! They are two counter-acting mechanisms that, I propose, tend to result in most racist crime occurring in the most diverse areas.

It is also possible that the police should be regarded more as a white institution than a non-white one, if they are not able to operate as effectively in non-white areas, which in this model means that whites are much less safe fleeing into their community after committing racist crimes than non-whites. This might explain an imbalance in victimisation.


I think mild racist tendencies are much more common in rural area's (from personal experience) however not to the extent a person would partake in a racist attack, I agree it mostly happens in more urban and ethnically diverse area's, albeit possibly for a different reason to yourself.

It's a pretty interesting idea, however looking at an area which is roughly 50-50 in terms of white's and ethnic minorities(preferable one ethnic group, albeit would be very hard to find an example) would be ideal.

I personally think racist incident are more likely to occur on "home turf" anyway which would be at odds with your "escape theory" aka people more likely to commit a racist crime or attack if they have somewhere to escape to.

Again your issue saying more white people are injured due to difficulty escaping or police response, however such area's often have a high patrol rate by the police. Also how come ethnic minorities have a 5x lower injury rate? Surely if they were attacked in a white dominated area, which still have certain area's dominated by whites, they would have a similar injury rate. Would you suggest most racist crimes (whites and all groups) usually happens in area's dominated by ethnic minorities?

Original post by Observatory
London is probably a reasonable model, since it's a majority minority city. If immigration is not stopped then London is what the whole country will become. One thing that is striking is that London is quite a lot like an American city in terms of the extremities of its wealth and success, and its criminal no-go ghettos. Perhaps there are more studies in America.


America has shown examples, albeit at the moment you don't really have any single ethnic group in built up area's. For example a lot of the white population are very likely to commit racist crimes against each other. By comparison white by English definition means British or Irish, with every-other group being covered in ethnic minority.

Original post by Observatory
No doubt much lower, but again, what is the key factor? Fewer non-whites to commit racist crimes, or fewer non-whites for whites to attack?

From my own limited reading the key problem in interpreting all racial victimisation studies is normalisation: different normalisations can show almost any trend you want. I've never seen a study that normalises based on the relative availability of victims and safety of attackers, possibly because it's very difficult to do.


Well the whole "Fewer non-whites to commit racist crimes, or fewer non-whites for whites to attack" question would presume all groups are equally as racist. I would think personally ethnic minorities would be less likely to commit a racist attack due to alienation.

However I feel there would be fewer than average attack according to population size seeing you then have other issues, for example area's with lower amounts of different ethnicities tend to have much less tension, not simply just less opportunity. Also the form of racism in such area's is likely very different to other area's due to lack of tension.

Also if your theory is correct you would have a much similar rates of racist crimes seeing the vast majority of ethnic minorities will live where their ethnicity is already established, usually in urban area's. Generally even where you have whites not having a 50%+ majority it is around 40-50%, you would see very similar rates of racism.

Generally speaking there's roughly only a 6% difference in the entire country, however it does not account for the drastic difference in violent attacks and injuries and you would still expect ethnic minorities to be higher as they do not have a 50%+ population share in the vast majority of places.

In conclusion you would have to look where racist crimes occur (in a fairly precise manner), why they occur and then get onto numerical data.

However looking at base figures regarding racist crimes, it seems hard to support the common idea white people don't have an issue with racist crimes being committed against them, seeing at the moment most racist crimes are committed against them.
Reply 77
Why do the British media refer to Middle Easternes as "Asians"'? It is misleading.
Reply 78
Original post by zgb1
Why do the British media refer to Middle Easternes as "Asians"'? It is misleading.


They are generally ignorant of where people are from and their differences, this goes for the general British population. I find the opposite true in mainland Europe. Never been confused for anything but what I am, Indian (besides British citizen) in European countries.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 79
Original post by Ggmu!
They are generally ignorant of where people are from and their differences, this goes for the general British population. I find the opposite true in mainland Europe. Never been confused for anything but what I am, Indian (besides British citizen) in European countries.

Posted from TSR Mobile


They should learn the difference. I think it is insulting for the Chinese or Indians to be equalised with the Middle East.

In Europe when somebody says "Asian" it means people from China, Japan or Thailand. Indians are always refered as a separate group.

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending