The Student Room Group
Reply 1
impervious
Could someone give me a hand with the following vector quesion please?

I need to simplify: (xy).(xy)+(x+y).z(x+z).y(x-y).(x-y)+(x+y).z-(x+z).y where x,y,zx,y,z are vectors.
But I am a bit confused as what to do. Help appreciated.


For the dot product, (a+b).(c+d)=a.c+b.c+a.d+b.d(a+b).(c+d) = a.c + b.c + a.d + b.d i.e. you can just multiply out the brackets.
Reply 2
Zygroth
For the dot product, (a+b).(c+d)=a.c+b.c+a.d+b.d(a+b).(c+d) = a.c + b.c + a.d + b.d i.e. you can just multiply out the brackets.

Cheers, I had done that originally but when i came back to it it just didn't seem right.
You wouldn't mind still though perhaps doing a couple of steps of it for me, once its multiplied out I am not quite sure what to do...
impervious
Cheers, I had done that originally but when i came back to it it just didn't seem right.
You wouldn't mind still though perhaps doing a couple of steps of it for me, once its multiplied out I am not quite sure what to do...

Post your working?

Note that x.y = y.x and things like that too.
Reply 4
impervious
Could someone give me a hand with the following vector quesion please?

I need to simplify: (xy).(xy)+(x+y).z(x+z).y(x-y).(x-y)+(x+y).z-(x+z).y where x,y,zx,y,z are vectors.
But I am a bit confused as what to do. Help appreciated.


For vectors, it's easier if you see it as column vectors. So your equation would translate to
(1,-1,0).(1,-1,0) + (1,1,0).(0,0,1) - (1,0,1).(0,1,0)

Note that for dot products, the answer would always be in scalar form, meaning it'll end up as a numerical answer.

(1,-1,0).(1,-1,0) = 1x1 + (-1)x(-1) + 0x0 = 1 + 1 + 0 = 2
Similarly,
(1,1,0).(0,0,1) = 0
(1,0,1).(0,1,0) = 0

So
(xy).(xy)+(x+y).z(x+z).y(x-y).(x-y)+(x+y).z-(x+z).y
= (1,-1,0).(1,-1,0) + (1,1,0).(0,0,1) - (1,0,1).(0,1,0)
= 2 + 0 + 0
= 2
mJ01991
For vectors, it's easier if you see it as column vectors. So your equation would translate to
(1,-1,0).(1,-1,0) + (1,1,0).(0,0,1) - (1,0,1).(0,1,0)

Note that for dot products, the answer would always be in scalar form, meaning it'll end up as a numerical answer.

(1,-1,0).(1,-1,0) = 1x1 + (-1)x(-1) + 0x0 = 1 + 1 + 0 = 2
Similarly,
(1,1,0).(0,0,1) = 0
(1,0,1).(0,1,0) = 0

So
(xy).(xy)+(x+y).z(x+z).y(x-y).(x-y)+(x+y).z-(x+z).y
= (1,-1,0).(1,-1,0) + (1,1,0).(0,0,1) - (1,0,1).(0,1,0)
= 2 + 0 + 0
= 2

I was presuming (I think fairly) that x, y, z were just general vectors, not the standard basis vectors, which are normally called i, j, k.

On another note, please read the sticky at the top of the forum, specifically what it says about posting full solutions. :smile:
Reply 6
Simplify: (xy).(xy)+(x+y).z(x+z).y(x-y).(x-y)+(x+y).z-(x+z).y where x,y,zx,y,z are vectors.

So you get:
xxxyyx+yy+xz+yz(xy+zy) xx -xy -yx +yy + xz+yz -(xy +zy)
xxxyyx+yy+xz+yzxyzy xx -xy -yx +yy + xz +yz -xy -zy
Now to simplify this because dot product was used these are now scalars?
Initially I assumed yx-yx = (xy)=xy-(-xy) = xy but now I am not so sure...

Simplifying the above assuming these are scalars would give me:
xx+yy2xy+xz+xy xx +yy -2xy + xz + -xy
yy+x(x2y+z+y) yy+ x(x -2y + z + -y)
impervious
Initially I assumed yx-yx = (xy)=xy-(-xy) = xy but now I am not so sure...

As I said earlier, x.y = y.x. The dot product is commutative. And yes, these are all just scalars (but that shouldn't make any difference to how you approach them).
Reply 8
generalebriety
As I said earlier, x.y = y.x. The dot product is commutative. And yes, these are all just scalars (but that shouldn't make any difference to how you approach them).

Right, see I wasn't sure if (xy).(xy)(x-y).(x-y)
was (x×x)(x×y)(y×x)+(y×y)[br] (x \times x) -(x \times y )- (y \times x )+ (y \times y)[br]
i.e. the cross product of each vector.
I have only ever used dot products on column vectors before now.
impervious
Right, see I wasn't sure if (xy).(xy)(x-y).(x-y)
was (x×x)(x×y)(y×x)+(y×y)[br] (x \times x) -(x \times y )- (y \times x )+ (y \times y)[br]
i.e. the cross product of each vector.
I have only ever used dot products on column vectors before now.

You can treat x and y as if they are column vectors, for all it matters.
Reply 10
generalebriety
You can treat x and y as if they are column vectors, for all it matters.

i just can't get my head round that for some reason... Sorry to be a pain but you couldn't perhaps tell me if the multiplication i done above is then correct?
impervious
i just can't get my head round that for some reason... Sorry to be a pain but you couldn't perhaps tell me if the multiplication i done above is then correct?

Yeah, the multiplication you did was fine, that's why I didn't correct it.
Reply 12
generalebriety
Yeah, the multiplication you did was fine, that's why I didn't correct it.

Thanks for the help.

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