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Should we apologise for slavery?

OP

katebushfan

Everyone seems to be pretty narrow minded and missing the point in this thread. Of course the UK should apologise for slavery, as a formality. The governments KNOW our generation has nothing to do with it, but that's not the point. People suffer as a direct result of slavery hundreds of years ago, many countries can't and won't develop because they're still being exploited due to the UK's actions of the past. It's not something that's over. It IS something that needs an apology.

YOU do not give the apology, the government does.

And yet, the government consists of our elected representatives - the people who represent us.

Moreover, I don't see why the government should have to apologise, either. The people who make up the government had no part in the slave trade.

If an individual Briton shouldn't have to apologise for the actions of their ancestors, why should a government (which is essentially a body of individual Britons) have to apologise for the actions of a previous government? It's double standards to agree with the former, but not the latter.

Reply 41

GottaLovePhysics! :)

17

I dont like the idea he apologised on my behalf.

Reply 42

Tiberius

OP

8

RickRoll

To get it right, the UK is a political entity and as such it can apologise for its actions. I don't ask you to apologise personally or to wear a stupid t-shirt every day. But I want you to understand that the Empire might not be as great as you want it to be.

The politics of the United Kingdom are still under the umbrella of what the nation is, at its core: a collective grouping of people. A body comprised of individual, elective representatives who are charged with overseeing said collective group does not change the fundamental principle.

If the United Kingdom as a nation apologised for slavery, that would encompass the individual Britons apologising as well.

Celebrate whatever aspect you want. But you can't simply cherry-pick the parts you like. The UK needs a different public understanding of its imperialist rule. It is understandable to be proud of being part of a former world power but denying its crimes is just plain wrong. Accept it as part of the history. A symbolic apologise could be a move to start thinking about the negative parts as well.

Who denies the crimes of the British Empire? Academic historical study does not cherry-pick the positive aspects, and most schools are taught the 'crimes' of the British Empire. I, personally, can recall my shock as we were taught about the actions which led to Gandhi's resistance movement. As you can see from the original post, the political class do not deny it, either.

What do you want, exactly? Days of mourning? An event where everyone dresses like they were attending a funeral and London is covered in posters from the film Amistad? I think you will find remembrance events do occur for the 'crimes' of our country. Moreover, I think it is better to celebrate Wilberforce and the abolishment of the slave trade, rather than simply being miserable.

Celebrating the positive aspects of Britain's history and heritage is a good source of promoting national unity.

Britain could have apologised earlier. :wink:

It's not our responsibility that they did not.

It just makes the victims feel better because they know that you understand and condemn the crimes in the past and that you will make sure that it will never happen again. That is what Germany did after WW2.

For starters, you don't need an apology to carry out the acts you describe. Secondly, what victims do you speak of? They are all dead. I don't think Britain should go against principle, by apologising, simply to make a few present-day individuals feel pleasant about something that happened to people hundreds of years ago.

Reply 43

HighestKungFu

13

It wouldn't be fair to either party for an apology to be made now, since the perpetrators and the victims are long dead. It would be one innocent party apologising to a victimless party due to the acts of their ancestors.

Slavery was certainly a cruel and deplorable chapter in human history, however it should now be studied in order to be learned from, not to push blame onto innocent people due to the colour of their ancestors skins.

Reply 44

Tsukuyomi

15

Although this generation had nothing to do with slavery, its because of slavery that has made europe and america so wealthy. So although you wasnt envolved you are still enjoying the fruit of slavery.
Lets remember it wasnt just about slavery, its also about the stealing of natural resources.

If this generation (white) should apologies then they ought to do the same to all the countries and native people they have corrupted in India ( not just india)/native americans (north america natives) /aborigines (native people of australia)/Māori (native people of zealand)/ whole of Africa

Reply 45

shriya

10

I am not surprised by the responses in this thread tbh. People are very keen to take the credit of past actions by their ancestors if its positive, but if its negative then people just go "it doesnt concern me, i didnt do it!"

Reply 46

Lord Hysteria

18

What I do in my bedroom is none of your damn business.

Reply 47

tazarooni89

20

I do not think we should apologise for slavery because:

1] It had nothing to do with us. It was between black people and British people who lived hundreds of years ago, who aren't around today. I've never owned a slave, so I see no need for me to apologise for slavery. And I don't think that the apology would be worth anything coming from me either.

2] Black people who are alive today have actually been done a favour by it, if anything. It's because of that slavery that they're here today, living in nice houses with nice jobs rather than struggling to find food and water in Africa somewhere. Why should they even want an apology?

Reply 48

Tiberius

OP

8

shriya

I am not surprised by the responses in this thread tbh. People are very keen to take the credit of past actions by their ancestors if its positive, but if its negative then people just go "it doesnt concern me, i didnt do it!"

I agree to some extent, but I think most people simply respect and celebrate past achievements, just like they disrespect and condemn Britain's role in the slave trade.

I think when it gets into pride and trying to take credit, that's when it's double standards.

Reply 49

Toaster Leavings

17

RickRoll

To get it right, the UK is a political entity and as such it can apologise for its actions. I don't ask you to apologise personally or to wear a stupid t-shirt every day. But I want you to understand that the Empire might not be as great as you want it to be.

Celebrate whatever aspect you want. But you can't simply cherry-pick the parts you like. The UK needs a different public understanding of its imperialist rule. It is understandable to be proud of being part of a former world power but denying its crimes is just plain wrong. Accept it as part of the history. A symbolic apologise could be a move to start thinking about the negative parts as well.

Britain could have apologised earlier. :wink:

Personally, I have apologised for things a lot less severe than slave trade or genocide and I think states should be more sensitive regarding past errors in general. An apology will not change the past nor does it blame you as a person. It just makes the victims feel better because they know that you understand and condemn the crimes in the past and that you will make sure that it will never happen again. That is what Germany did after WW2.

Hah. Germany was bankrupt and on it's knees they didn't have much of a choice anyway. It's a pretty different position to apologising for a trade that ended in the 18th century. Does anyone really think Britain is suddenly going to enslave Africa again? If the issue was at all relevant maybe there'd be a point to it. However as it stands it's hugely patronising to wave a hand and say sorry when you can't atone such acts. Surely aid money and work in Africa serves as a better apology than this stupid speech from Ken.

Reply 50

LMAC

7

This is crazy, there's plenty of current problems they could be fixing rather than apologizing for something that this government had no say over.

Reply 51

The_Octopus

11

It does seem a bit patronising to go over to Africa and walk about in chains saying how sorry you are for slavery. Instead of giving yourself a holiday and telling yourself you're doing something good why not give your weeks wages to charity? Much more meaningful gesture, not patronising and actually useful.

Reply 52

RickRoll

Toaster Leavings

Hah. Germany was bankrupt and on it's knees they didn't have much of a choice anyway. It's a pretty different position to apologising for a trade that ended in the 18th century. Does anyone really think Britain is suddenly going to enslave Africa again? If the issue was at all relevant maybe there'd be a point to it. However as it stands it's hugely patronising to wave a hand and say sorry when you can't atone such acts. Surely aid money and work in Africa serves as a better apology than this stupid speech from Ken.

Surely, an apology won't replace aid money but symbols are hugely important. Regarding Germany: what about the Warschauer Kniefall? Brandt was in no way involved in Nazi crimes or otherwise forced but still chose to kneel down. It didn't bring any Jew back to life but it showed his attitude towards the Nazis and their crimes and contributed to the rapprochement to eastern Europe.
Imo Germany does cope much better with its history than Britain does.

I still don't get why it is so hard to say that you (individual, government, mayor, whoever) are ashamed and sorry that it could happen. Even tough you were not involved personally you have to accept it as part of British history. Almost every country's history is filled with horrific things. Of course it's not your fault; but it's your heritage. Accept it and get on with life.

Reply 53

Digit_Five

7

Only if I also get to take credit for the industrial revolution, the discovery and development of penicillin and the invention and consequent patenting of the silicon microchip.

I am not the people who came before me.

Reply 54

Time Tourist

9

This discussion is often couched in terms of 'White' people, by which we mean British people (although by no means exclusively was Britain the only country to have a part in the slave trade, although it was the first country in the history of civilization to outlaw it outright), apologizing to 'Black' people. But which white people are going to apologize to which black people, and on behalf of who?

Reply 55

baseballfan2010

All countries have committed atrocities. On one hand, these countries should do what they can to learn from it and not do it again. That said, do I personally I feel I should apologize for slavery? I probably had slave-owning ancestors, though I don't know for sure. But other being sorry that it happened, I'm not going to apologize for it, since I didn't do it.

Reply 56

Toaster Leavings

17

RickRoll

Surely, an apology won't replace aid money but symbols are hugely important. Regarding Germany: what about the Warschauer Kniefall? Brandt was in no way involved in Nazi crimes or otherwise forced but still chose to kneel down. It didn't bring any Jew back to life but it showed his attitude towards the Nazis and their crimes and contributed to the rapprochement to eastern Europe.
Imo Germany does cope much better with its history than Britain does.

I still don't get why it is so hard to say that you (individual, government, mayor, whoever) are ashamed and sorry that it could happen. Even tough you were not involved personally you have to accept it as part of British history. Almost every country's history is filled with horrific things. Of course it's not your fault; but it's your heritage. Accept it and get on with life.

I still don't think they're comparable, Europe was still divided then as you mentioned yourself. Perhaps if we'd apologised 100 years ago when the issues were more directly relevant it would make sense. It seems too late to be meaningful now.

I do accept it as my heritage I wasn't arguing that it's not my personal fault and thus shouldn't apologise I was stating that the slave trade was a great atrocity which involved lots of different countries and indeed Africans themselves and I think it's patronising to apologise for it on such a vague level.

Reply 57

Toaster Leavings

17

Blu3j4yw4y

But this nation is not the same one that endorsed slavery. It has the same name, it's in the same place, but it contains completely different people. No one who was involved exists in the country today. We are the same in name and place, only.

No it's not the same place but it's evolved from somewhere it's not just appeared out of magic. Our economy benefited from slavery and helped to shape the country we live in now so I don't see how the nation can simply wash it's hands of that.

Still, I don't think an apology is appropriate.

Reply 58

Hannah45

Blu3j4yw4y

But this nation is not the same one that endorsed slavery. It has the same name, it's in the same place, but it contains completely different people. No one who was involved exists in the country today. We are the same in name and place, only.

Really?

Reply 59

Wesssty

12

Okay, sorry Tyrone, no hard feelings eh?

Should we apologise for slavery?

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