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devolution

I still think that the West Lothian question needs addressing. Why should Scottish MPs get to vote on policy that doesn't affect any of the people they're supposed to represent? English people get kinda screwed over in that respect. e.g. "We run healthcare our own way in Scotland, but our people are still going to elect MPs to decide on how healthcare is run where you live!"
Revolutions have been started over less! (Well, maybe not, but you get the picture.)

Reply 21

yawn

17

Lord Waddell

On the other hand it could strengthen the Union, since a little loosening of ties often makes for a more cohesive relationship. For example, the USA. Had the USA been a centralised state, then many of the states would have been independant.

I suppose that is possible.

Reply 22

Lord Waddell

1

JonathanH

I still think that the West Lothian question needs addressing. Why should Scottish MPs get to vote on policy that doesn't affect any of the people they're supposed to represent? English people get kinda screwed over in that respect. e.g. "We run healthcare our own way in Scotland, but our people are still going to elect MPs to decide on how healthcare is run where you live!"
Revolutions have been started over less! (Well, maybe not, but you get the picture.)

That could be one of the arguments for an English Grand Committee to decide English matters.

Reply 23

yawn

17

Lord Waddell

That could be one of the arguments for an English Grand Committee to decide English matters.

Why a Grand Committee - why not an English assembly?

Reply 24

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

Why not simply stop Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish MP's from voting in Westminster on England-specific legislation, such as top up fees and the NHS stuff? Why create yet another devolved assembly, creating more beauracracy and waste when it's not needed?

Reply 25

Lord Waddell

1

yawn

Why a Grand Committee - why not an English assembly?

Because a referendum should really be carried out to see if the English people want an Assembly. With a Grand Committee, you have MPs working more for their money, it doesn't create a whole new layer of bureaucracy and because the framework is already there. Scottish affairs were settled for years through a Scottish Grand Committee and the Scottish Office.

Reply 26

Longshoredrift80

10

I mean, theoretically the "fair" thing to do is to upgrade the Welsh Assembly to the level of the Scottish Parliament - i.e. give it primary legislative power etc. over the same issues that the Scottish Parliament has control over. Then create an English Parliament that has the same powers over the same issues, but for England. And then just leave Westminster to decide on the issues such as Foreign Policy, Defence etc.
That does seem rather a costly and excessively bureaucratic suggestion though.

Reply 27

Chrism

1

yawn

Why a Grand Committee - why not an English assembly?

Because we have enough politicians leaching from the public purse as it is atm without creating a new home for failed MPs.

Reply 28

zooropa

OP

JonathanH

I mean, theoretically the "fair" thing to do is to upgrade the Welsh Assembly to the level of the Scottish Parliament - i.e. give it primary legislative power etc. over the same issues that the Scottish Parliament has control over. Then create an English Parliament that has the same powers over the same issues, but for England. And then just leave Westminster to decide on the issues such as Foreign Policy, Defence etc.
That does seem rather a costly and excessively bureaucratic suggestion though.

So England & Wales wouldn't be a single legal entity?

There are areas of England that do want the same sort of autonomy that both Scotland and Wales enjoy - why not have Shire devolvement?

Where exactly? Cornwall? English devolution, by and large, isn't in popular demand. The Westminster Parliament should simply pass a law restricting Scottish MP's from voting on English issues.

Reply 29

Tonight Matthew

2

zooropa

The Westminster Parliament should simply pass a law restricting Scottish MP's from voting on English issues.

Problem with this idea is that when an elected government with a majority of the UK seats relies upon MP's from other parts of the Kingdom for that majority, it won't be able to pass through much, perhaps any, domestic legislation within England, using only English MPs.

Reply 30

zooropa

OP

Yes it could. Scotland only has about 60 MP's.

Do you wish for the breakup of the United Kingdom

Each country of the UK could easily survive as a sovereign nation.

Reply 31

technik

13

the devolved institutions are just another layer of bureacracy. keep handing them powers and the union isnt practically non existant. get rid of them.

at present we have EU handing down almighty rules and regulations, then westminister, then the functioning devolved institutions, then councils. should be a slim EU for trade and such like, westminister making our laws and regulations, and then the councils implementing them.
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zooropa

Yes it could. Scotland only has about 60 MP's.

Each country of the UK could easily survive as a sovereign nation.

i think its most aptly summed up in this well known quote...

"united we stand, divided we fall"

Reply 32

zooropa

OP

England must have one of the ten largest GDP's in the world. To say we couldn't survive alone is absurd. Scotland and Wales may be small nations, but so what? Denmark is a small nation, yet is quite prosperous.

The UK was constructed on force anyhow. Did Wales consent to be part of England under Henry VIII? Did Scotland even consent to the 1707 Act of Union? Or Ireland to the 1801 Act of Union?

Reply 33

Tonight Matthew

2

zooropa

Yes it could. Scotland only has about 60 MP's.

And the passing or rejecting of legislation could never be decided by a reasonably slim margain, right?

And what about the 40 Welsh MPs? The WA may not be as powerful as Holyrood, but still, why do you draw the line before them?

Reply 34

Mr Brightside

Exactly, I don't see any of the 50 states of the USA crying out for independence. Similarily, Scots and the Welsh don't want independent states, and most certianly NI does not.

England should not have its own assembly because it would be a remarkable waste of money.

However, a complete overhaul with more powers to Cardiff and Edinburgh would see a need for an English Assembly/Parliament which I would be in favour of.

Reply 35

technik

13

zooropa

England must have one of the ten largest GDP's in the world. To say we couldn't survive alone is absurd. Scotland and Wales may be small nations, but so what? Denmark is a small nation, yet is quite prosperous.

The UK was constructed on force anyhow. Did Wales consent to be part of England under Henry VIII? Did Scotland even consent to the 1707 Act of Union? Or Ireland to the 1801 Act of Union?

the UK has the 4th highest GDP in the world right now...

as someone else said...if it aint broke...

and anyway if the union broke up the 3 of the 4 nations suddenly become unimportant european minnows tucked up in the ocean out of the way and england becomes instantly less important and influencial than...the dreaded french. wonder how The Sun and most common folk would like that... :biggrin:

Reply 36

NDGAARONDI

16

DanGrover

Why not simply stop Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish MP's from voting in Westminster on England-specific legislation, such as top up fees and the NHS stuff? Why create yet another devolved assembly, creating more beauracracy and waste when it's not needed?

Exactly what I've been advocating.

Reply 37

technik

13

NDGAARONDI

Exactly what I've been advocating.

uni fees and the NHS are only english phenomena are they?

Reply 38

Tonight Matthew

2

Uhhhh, technik, is there any particular reason for that avatar? Just wondering.

Reply 39

Chrism

1

zooropa

Did Scotland even consent to the 1707 Act of Union? Or Ireland to the 1801 Act of Union?

Yes in both cases, though the Scots were kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the country being almost bankrupt after the failure of the Darien scheme and the British government gave out tons of peerages to Irish MPs to get them to vote for the Union.
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Tonight Matthew

Problem with this idea is that when an elected government with a majority of the UK seats relies upon MP's from other parts of the Kingdom for that majority, it won't be able to pass through much, perhaps any, domestic legislation within England, using only English MPs.

That'd be Labour's problem, not ours.

devolution

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