Is the UK prepared for WW3?
Is the UK prepared for if Russia goes to war with NATO? This is because, I just read an article in the telegraph by Sir Patrick Sanders, that conscription would have to be introduced if a war did happen.
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If it's nuclear WW3 I doubt whether there is any time worth preparing for it - just say goodbye.
The methodical, systematic and professional training of the British military is crucial to the effective defence of the UK in any takeover scenario. Conscription would not cut it but we have to start somewhere and face reality. Successive Governments have buried their heads in the sand and actively reduced armed forces numbers. They have been reckless insisting on risking the military capability with equality and woke agendas which have no place in the real world or in the defence of this country. We are all at risk. Men are physically stronger than women but women can still fire weapons with equal efficiency. An armed forces team is only as good as its weakest link. It needs to retain its standards, proven over time with training and not weaken our defence capability with progressive ideas of an unrecognised minority.
It is time to start treating our armed service personnel with the respect they deserve, on pay and conditions, on accommodation and on support after conflict to help increase the numbers. Politicians have cynically used the courage of our armed forces to create their own vanity agendas. They are quick to sell them down the river. Those same politicians of the past might wonder why there is now a huge recruitment crisis.
We are also delusional if we think our current population can be fit enough to run for a bus never mind running across open battlefields in conscription? I guess we have to start somewhere? Getting an hour of physical cardio work every day for every student at primary and secondary school level would be a start?
The methodical, systematic and professional training of the British military is crucial to the effective defence of the UK in any takeover scenario. Conscription would not cut it but we have to start somewhere and face reality. Successive Governments have buried their heads in the sand and actively reduced armed forces numbers. They have been reckless insisting on risking the military capability with equality and woke agendas which have no place in the real world or in the defence of this country. We are all at risk. Men are physically stronger than women but women can still fire weapons with equal efficiency. An armed forces team is only as good as its weakest link. It needs to retain its standards, proven over time with training and not weaken our defence capability with progressive ideas of an unrecognised minority.
It is time to start treating our armed service personnel with the respect they deserve, on pay and conditions, on accommodation and on support after conflict to help increase the numbers. Politicians have cynically used the courage of our armed forces to create their own vanity agendas. They are quick to sell them down the river. Those same politicians of the past might wonder why there is now a huge recruitment crisis.
We are also delusional if we think our current population can be fit enough to run for a bus never mind running across open battlefields in conscription? I guess we have to start somewhere? Getting an hour of physical cardio work every day for every student at primary and secondary school level would be a start?
No.
Not even if WW3 had zero nuclear annihilation risk.
The uks armed forces have been subjected to so many decades of inept management and an idiotic more recent streamlining of resources that has been summed up by some career military figures as "cut beyond the bone".
Ruining morale among all manner of experienced armed forces members.
Plus putting off huge numbers of healthy and very compatible young people that would have made great navy personnel or army fighters from even applying.
The majority of uk civilians in the 18-50 age groups have far too much obvious baggage and incompatible priorities for conscription to be a sensible preparation for WW3.
Binge drinking, petty thuggery, general laziness, diets with very large amounts of the most unhealthy fats or criminal habits.
With plenty of the uks population made up of disruptive immature jerks with a propensity to regularly indulge in snowflake meltdowns during the sort of accusatory petty squabbles that should never be occurring outside of the primary school playground.
Never mind the dire state of the uk economy since the pandemic.
Or how pathetic the senior politicians of england, scotland and northern ireland have been since mid 2020.
Not even if WW3 had zero nuclear annihilation risk.
The uks armed forces have been subjected to so many decades of inept management and an idiotic more recent streamlining of resources that has been summed up by some career military figures as "cut beyond the bone".
Ruining morale among all manner of experienced armed forces members.
Plus putting off huge numbers of healthy and very compatible young people that would have made great navy personnel or army fighters from even applying.
The majority of uk civilians in the 18-50 age groups have far too much obvious baggage and incompatible priorities for conscription to be a sensible preparation for WW3.
Binge drinking, petty thuggery, general laziness, diets with very large amounts of the most unhealthy fats or criminal habits.
With plenty of the uks population made up of disruptive immature jerks with a propensity to regularly indulge in snowflake meltdowns during the sort of accusatory petty squabbles that should never be occurring outside of the primary school playground.
Never mind the dire state of the uk economy since the pandemic.
Or how pathetic the senior politicians of england, scotland and northern ireland have been since mid 2020.
Russia won't got to war against NATO and knows it can't. Why do you think it is so opposed to Ukraine joining, and was so opposed to Finland joining?
Russia lacks the resources and public will to go to war against NATO as much as any of the NATO members have to go to war against it.
Russia lacks the resources and public will to go to war against NATO as much as any of the NATO members have to go to war against it.
(edited 3 months ago)
Original post by Kingdragon
Is the UK prepared for if Russia goes to war with NATO? This is because, I just read an article in the telegraph by Sir Patrick Sanders, that conscription would have to be introduced if a war did happen.
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Original post by artful_lounger
Russia won't got to war against NATO and knows it can't. Why do you think it is so opposed to Ukraine joining, and was so opposed to Finland joining?
Russia lacks the resources and public will to go to war against NATO as much as any of the NATO members have to go to war against it.
Russia lacks the resources and public will to go to war against NATO as much as any of the NATO members have to go to war against it.
While this is true, we are assuming that war only comes when NATO is directly attacked. There's every chance that like WW1, things just spiral.
Let's imagine for a second that we are stupid enough to surrender occupied Ukraine and the lesson that Russia takes from this is to attack Georgia, Armenia and the remainder of Ukraine in the following years. Then let's imagine that a year or two after that they attempt to annex Moldova.. except that the Romanians consider Moldovans their kin.
That type of scenario has the potential to run out of control if Romania for example is not happy with throwing money at them and provides material support to defend their own. Romania is one of us and so Poland decides to actively support them, France and the UK then help.. Russia can't accept the loss because Putin will be shot if he is perceived to lose a war.
•
I'll not go as far as WW3 but I'm coming to the conclusion that there will at least be skirmishes by decades end.
Original post by Jebedee
Considering the contempt the UK general public feel towards them. I can see them telling the government to get stuffed.
I'd be more likely to fight for the Russians.
I'd be more likely to fight for the Russians.
I wouldn’t fight for the Russians but at the same time I wouldn’t fight for our government. Id rather fight against my own government if push came to shove.
Why would Russia want to go to war with us? Unless we add Ukraine into NATO, attacking a NATO country is really not in their interest.
Original post by Tescosman123
Why would Russia want to go to war with us? Unless we add Ukraine into NATO, attacking a NATO country is really not in their interest.
They wouldn’t or more importantly they can’t. I don’t get all this pointless fear mongering. Russia’s army has been gutted by corruption and now its disaster in Ukraine.
We are truly in a mess if we have to call in civilians to fight the war .
Original post by Kingdragon
Is the UK prepared for if Russia goes to war with NATO? This is because, I just read an article in the telegraph by Sir Patrick Sanders, that conscription would have to be introduced if a war did happen.
Just another senior army official trying to scaremonger the government into giving the armed forces more funding. Very unlikely to be successful given the army's quality is far from a salient issue for voters compared to things like day-to-day public service provision.
Original post by BenRyan99
Just another senior army official trying to scaremonger the government into giving the armed forces more funding. Very unlikely to be successful given the army's quality is far from a salient issue for voters compared to things like day-to-day public service provision.
Given that the prospect of surrender in Ukraine and subsequent war in Georgia, Armenia and Moldova, that would appear to be a grave mistake on the part of our politicians.
Sadly I do however agree.
Original post by Rakas21
Given that the prospect of surrender in Ukraine and subsequent war in Georgia, Armenia and Moldova, that would appear to be a grave mistake on the part of our politicians.
Sadly I do however agree.
Sadly I do however agree.
None of those are even NATO countries though. Can hardly see the UK choosing to go to war against a nuclear super power for a few small non-NATO countries - would likely just yield a similar response as with Ukraine (i.e. sending equipment and funding rather than actually get involved).
The truth is, the general public has absolutely no desire for war, and rightly so. Every public policy decision is a trade-off, every extra soldier/tank/aircraft/etc means poorer public service provision domestically.
Original post by BenRyan99
None of those are even NATO countries though. Can hardly see the UK choosing to go to war against a nuclear super power for a few small non-NATO countries - would likely just yield a similar response as with Ukraine (i.e. sending equipment and funding rather than actually get involved).
The truth is, the general public has absolutely no desire for war, and rightly so. Every public policy decision is a trade-off, every extra soldier/tank/aircraft/etc means poorer public service provision domestically.
The truth is, the general public has absolutely no desire for war, and rightly so. Every public policy decision is a trade-off, every extra soldier/tank/aircraft/etc means poorer public service provision domestically.
Of course there will be no money for public services if we spend it all on armed forces security. This underfunding is many decades old crossing all political parties. We are as a Nation unproductive and broke. But there won't be any reasonable public policy decisions if another regime takes over the UK. You can also kiss sweet goodbye to all of the numerous woke agendas and non essential services wasting money right now that are so over funded. Cutting Government and ministerial pay (and expenses) by 75% might go some way to funding the MOD
Pretending there will never be a war is playing Russian roulette with our security. If you believe so passionately in freedom then you have to be prepared to defend it. We are such a minor mouth piece in the grand scheme but act as if we are a major power. We are a broken island. If war breaks out we have little or no security. Just look at how quickly the Taliban swarmed all over the chaos we left behind in Afghanistan. We have absolutely no idea who is in the country at any given time. The threat to our island will probably come from within.
What should worry us all is that we can procure and build brand new aircraft carriers and a few ferries (most have never left the dock, are years overdue and massively over budget) No sooner they float than they break down. Our expensive labour costs do not assure build quality. If we need to react tomorrow we might need to write an excuse note (I will ask my Mum) to give us more time to respond (probably in the region of about ten years or so) If war does break out and the foreign powers who incite the civil unrest in the UK take over the running of the country, public service provision will be the least of our worries. I am sure we will have plenty of time to consider our losses afterwards when we have lots of meaningless inquiries to work out why we didn't spend our money wisely.
Original post by Muttly
Of course there will be no money for public services if we spend it all on armed forces security. This underfunding is many decades old crossing all political parties. We are as a Nation unproductive and broke. But there won't be any reasonable public policy decisions if another regime takes over the UK. You can also kiss sweet goodbye to all of the numerous woke agendas and non essential services wasting money right now that are so over funded. Cutting Government and ministerial pay (and expenses) by 75% might go some way to funding the MOD
Pretending there will never be a war is playing Russian roulette with our security. If you believe so passionately in freedom then you have to be prepared to defend it. We are such a minor mouth piece in the grand scheme but act as if we are a major power. We are a broken island. If war breaks out we have little or no security. Just look at how quickly the Taliban swarmed all over the chaos we left behind in Afghanistan. We have absolutely no idea who is in the country at any given time. The threat to our island will probably come from within.
What should worry us all is that we can procure and build brand new aircraft carriers and a few ferries (most have never left the dock, are years overdue and massively over budget) No sooner they float than they break down. Our expensive labour costs do not assure build quality. If we need to react tomorrow we might need to write an excuse note (I will ask my Mum) to give us more time to respond (probably in the region of about ten years or so) If war does break out and the foreign powers who incite the civil unrest in the UK take over the running of the country, public service provision will be the least of our worries. I am sure we will have plenty of time to consider our losses afterwards when we have lots of meaningless inquiries to work out why we didn't spend our money wisely.
Pretending there will never be a war is playing Russian roulette with our security. If you believe so passionately in freedom then you have to be prepared to defend it. We are such a minor mouth piece in the grand scheme but act as if we are a major power. We are a broken island. If war breaks out we have little or no security. Just look at how quickly the Taliban swarmed all over the chaos we left behind in Afghanistan. We have absolutely no idea who is in the country at any given time. The threat to our island will probably come from within.
What should worry us all is that we can procure and build brand new aircraft carriers and a few ferries (most have never left the dock, are years overdue and massively over budget) No sooner they float than they break down. Our expensive labour costs do not assure build quality. If we need to react tomorrow we might need to write an excuse note (I will ask my Mum) to give us more time to respond (probably in the region of about ten years or so) If war does break out and the foreign powers who incite the civil unrest in the UK take over the running of the country, public service provision will be the least of our worries. I am sure we will have plenty of time to consider our losses afterwards when we have lots of meaningless inquiries to work out why we didn't spend our money wisely.
Hmmm, simultaneously holding the view that the MOD should get lots more funding, while also thinking the UK can't build to the correct quality or budget.... I definitely can't see a contradiction there.
Given you seem incredibly passionate about all of this, if you had to say, when do you predict we'll be in a direct war with Russia?
Original post by BenRyan99
Hmmm, simultaneously holding the view that the MOD should get lots more funding, while also thinking the UK can't build to the correct quality or budget.... I definitely can't see a contradiction there.
Given you seem incredibly passionate about all of this, if you had to say, when do you predict we'll be in a direct war with Russia?
Given you seem incredibly passionate about all of this, if you had to say, when do you predict we'll be in a direct war with Russia?
A bit of both, remember the funding the MoD gets is never unconditional and has lots of politics attached. They absolutely need to be making better internal procurement decisions but when you keep messing with their funding they'll keep making desperate and unsuitable choices to try and play gaps in capabilities, hoping a bit they never get caught out in actual combat .
Same old problem as tax, all the countries woes wont magically vanish with more taxes raised, it needs to be well spent
As Muttly says, we're a diminished island but politically we keep trying to sit at the big table and come out with the same big project talk, but we can't quite back it up. Which is why we end up with fleets of high tech ships that can't sail in warm water, we order the wrong jets for out aircraft carrier like we were drunk on Amazon at 2am and we commission 'modern' armoured vehicles that vibrate so bad the crews brains near dribble out of their ear.
Original post by StriderHort
A bit of both, remember the funding the MoD gets is never unconditional and has lots of politics attached. They absolutely need to be making better internal procurement decisions but when you keep messing with their funding they'll keep making desperate and unsuitable choices to try and play gaps in capabilities, hoping a bit they never get caught out in actual combat .
Same old problem as tax, all the countries woes wont magically vanish with more taxes raised, it needs to be well spent
As Muttly says, we're a diminished island but politically we keep trying to sit at the big table and come out with the same big project talk, but we can't quite back it up. Which is why we end up with fleets of high tech ships that can't sail in warm water, we order the wrong jets for out aircraft carrier like we were drunk on Amazon at 2am and we commission 'modern' armoured vehicles that vibrate so bad the crews brains near dribble out of their ear.
Same old problem as tax, all the countries woes wont magically vanish with more taxes raised, it needs to be well spent
As Muttly says, we're a diminished island but politically we keep trying to sit at the big table and come out with the same big project talk, but we can't quite back it up. Which is why we end up with fleets of high tech ships that can't sail in warm water, we order the wrong jets for out aircraft carrier like we were drunk on Amazon at 2am and we commission 'modern' armoured vehicles that vibrate so bad the crews brains near dribble out of their ear.
I do agree that "we're a diminished island but politically we keep trying to sit at the big table", therefore we should lower our defence funding so that it's actually in-line with the size of our economy and the smaller and more realistic foreign policy objectives that we should be targeting.
(edited 2 months ago)
Original post by Muttly
Of course there will be no money for public services if we spend it all on armed forces security. This underfunding is many decades old crossing all political parties. We are as a Nation unproductive and broke. But there won't be any reasonable public policy decisions if another regime takes over the UK. You can also kiss sweet goodbye to all of the numerous woke agendas and non essential services wasting money right now that are so over funded. Cutting Government and ministerial pay (and expenses) by 75% might go some way to funding the MOD
Pretending there will never be a war is playing Russian roulette with our security. If you believe so passionately in freedom then you have to be prepared to defend it. We are such a minor mouth piece in the grand scheme but act as if we are a major power. We are a broken island. If war breaks out we have little or no security. Just look at how quickly the Taliban swarmed all over the chaos we left behind in Afghanistan. We have absolutely no idea who is in the country at any given time. The threat to our island will probably come from within.
What should worry us all is that we can procure and build brand new aircraft carriers and a few ferries (most have never left the dock, are years overdue and massively over budget) No sooner they float than they break down. Our expensive labour costs do not assure build quality. If we need to react tomorrow we might need to write an excuse note (I will ask my Mum) to give us more time to respond (probably in the region of about ten years or so) If war does break out and the foreign powers who incite the civil unrest in the UK take over the running of the country, public service provision will be the least of our worries. I am sure we will have plenty of time to consider our losses afterwards when we have lots of meaningless inquiries to work out why we didn't spend our money wisely.
Pretending there will never be a war is playing Russian roulette with our security. If you believe so passionately in freedom then you have to be prepared to defend it. We are such a minor mouth piece in the grand scheme but act as if we are a major power. We are a broken island. If war breaks out we have little or no security. Just look at how quickly the Taliban swarmed all over the chaos we left behind in Afghanistan. We have absolutely no idea who is in the country at any given time. The threat to our island will probably come from within.
What should worry us all is that we can procure and build brand new aircraft carriers and a few ferries (most have never left the dock, are years overdue and massively over budget) No sooner they float than they break down. Our expensive labour costs do not assure build quality. If we need to react tomorrow we might need to write an excuse note (I will ask my Mum) to give us more time to respond (probably in the region of about ten years or so) If war does break out and the foreign powers who incite the civil unrest in the UK take over the running of the country, public service provision will be the least of our worries. I am sure we will have plenty of time to consider our losses afterwards when we have lots of meaningless inquiries to work out why we didn't spend our money wisely.
Can you please explain how cutting government and ministerial pay by 75% would attractive the necessary talent to make the ministry of defence more productive?
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