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Original post by Physics Enemy
People who don't want Maths/Physics dumbed down, people who care about the integrity of the subject and the integrity of those who study it. For those who don't want the subject tarnished for 'popularity' from the masses. A professor who gets a D in Maths A-Level is a tin-pot academic.

There's little more inherently fraudulent than people who aren't bright, flunked school because it was too hard, then started paying fees at 3rd rate institutions to become a 'professor'. Now he's got a TV show and interview; well at least he's played the system well, given his lack of talent.

The glory and so forth should be going to people with real talent and ability; not tin-pot academics like him. This doesn't just apply to him, but so called teachers, graduates, professors etc who can't hack pre-uni based questions/exams.

A lot of what I said isn't based on his flunked A-Level either, but what I've read about him, watched of him, his dumbed down TV shows, etc.


20 years ago you had to be clever to get an A or B grade at A-level.
You had to be pretty bright to get a C.
A D was never considered a good grade.
There are more people getting an grade A nowadays than sat the exam (in the relevant subject), perhaps that says it all.
Original post by Physics Enemy
People who don't want Maths/Physics dumbed down, people who care about the integrity of the subject and the integrity of those who study it. For those who don't want the subject tarnished for 'popularity' from the masses. A professor who gets a D in Maths A-Level is a tin-pot academic.

There's little more inherently fraudulent than people who aren't bright, flunked school because it was too hard, then started paying fees at 3rd rate institutions to become a 'professor'. Now he's got a TV show and interview; well at least he's played the system well, given his lack of talent.

The glory and so forth should be going to people with real talent and ability; not tin-pot academics like him. This doesn't just apply to him, but so called teachers, graduates, professors etc who can't hack pre-uni based questions/exams.

A lot of what I said isn't based on his flunked A-Level either, but what I've read about him, watched of him, his dumbed down TV shows, etc.

You are too funny. A D back then is good.

Manchester Physics department is really good. Two professors where awarded the nobel prize for work on graphene that is likely to replace silicon in the future. Even without his TV show he would still be a good scientist.

You know everyone disagress with you? Pre uni Maths is crap indictation of any skill or intelligence.

His TV show isn't dumbed down. Just popular science that isn't that bad. Pretty sure he can't say look at this TISE and if you solve this you get the energy of electron in a steady state.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Simplicity
You are too funny. A D back then is good.

A D back then is not 'good'. If it's supposedly good, what are the A, B and C people up to these days? Even back in the day, clever students were expected to get As and keep afloat on the Special Papers. DFranklin is a similar enough age to him, and he would never even consider the thought of a D. And he wasn't that hard a worker either. DFranklin deserves a TV show etc far more than this guy.

Original post by Simplicity
Manchester Physics department is really good. Two professors where awarded the nobel prize for work on graphene that is likely to replace silicon in the future. Even without his TV show he would still be a good scientist.

You know everyone disagress with you? Pre uni Maths is crap indictation of any skill or intelligence.

His TV show isn't dumbed down. Just popular science that isn't that bad. Pretty sure he can't say look at this TISE and if you solve this you get the energy of electron in a steady state.

I hope those professors managed to hack A-Level Maths before playing around with materials and then claiming prizes. Popular science is dumbed down science, that's exactly what it is. Maybe they should talk about TISE etc rather than keeping the masses happy. But it's about the money, never the education.

The BMO/IMO is a great indicator of skill and intelligence. Those who go to the IMO are the cleverest in the world. Nobody could do what they do. :smile:
Original post by Physics Enemy
A D back then is not 'good'. If it's supposedly good, what are the A, B and C people up to these days? Even back in the day, clever students were expected to get As and keep afloat on the Special Papers. DFranklin is a similar enough age to him, and he would never even consider the thought of a D. And he wasn't that hard a worker either. DFranklin deserves a TV show etc far more than this guy.


I hope those professors managed to hack A-Level Maths before playing around with materials and then claiming prizes. Popular science is dumbed down science, that's exactly what it is. Maybe they should talk about TISE etc rather than keeping the masses happy. But it's about the money, never the education.

The BMO/IMO is a great indicator of skill and intelligence. Those who go to the IMO are the cleverest in the world. Nobody could do what they do. :smile:

Been pointed out many times in this thread. D back then is probably an A now, also the system back then was different like no resists. DFranklin is different as he was applying for Maths at Cambridge.

I don't know why you think that Manchester is 3rd rate for Physics. It's stupid to claim. Also, he Brian Cox got a first, that is better than an A at A level Maths. Popular science isn't that bad. Top scientist have written popular science books like Hawkings and Poincare.

No they don't. Plenty of IMOs that go on to do nothing. BMO/IMO is based on a limited set of skills that are outdated.
Reply 45
Original post by Simplicity
Been pointed out many times in this thread. D back then is probably an A now


Not entirely true. As much as people love saying this statement, the syallabuses over the years cannot be compared. We're clearly learning different topics from those in the 80s and so on, therefore grades can't really be compared
Original post by Woffles
Not entirely true. As much as people love saying this statement, the syallabuses over the years cannot be compared. We're clearly learning different topics from those in the 80s and so on, therefore grades can't really be compared

Not true for Maths. You are learning the same thing, but Maths just got dumbed down so everything vaguely Mathematical is pushed into Further Maths.

Now if you want I can get some past papers. But, it's not the syallabuse that has changed as Maths you are taught in A levels is still hundreds of years old, it's just that it's been dumbed down.
Reply 47
I did A levels in 1990, there were no modules then and everything was on about four exams (per A-level) at the end of the two years. There were no resits either!

Still got four As though :wink: Although that said, it was unusual then and got me in the local papers.
Reply 48
Original post by Simplicity
Not true for Maths. You are learning the same thing, but Maths just got dumbed down so everything vaguely Mathematical is pushed into Further Maths.

Now if you want I can get some past papers. But, it's not the syallabuse that has changed as Maths you are taught in A levels is still hundreds of years old, it's just that it's been dumbed down.


Material we had to learn for O Level maths is now in the Further Maths Syllabus!
Saying that when I was doing my first degree in the 80's I recognised quite quickly that I had no problem with the past papers from the previous 5 years or so, if I went back to the papers from the early 70's or 60's I could only do a limited number of questions.

So ...what I'm saying is dumbing down is not a recent thing, its been happening for a long long time. At the end of the day, you answer the questions in front of you and if you get a job at the end of your studies you've done a useful qualification. Who cares if its a different to something from a previous generation.

Now I've no idea about Brian Cox but it appears our backgrounds are very very similar. I also got a D in the early 80's in my Maths A level, a first in my degree, a PhD and just about every prize/award open to me along th way. Why I got my D in Maths is simple - sport, short skirts, not doing any work and knowing that any three A levels was enough to get into the home town university (which was the only one I was ever going to go to).
Early 80's maths A level was just two 3 hour papers.

Unfortunately unlike Brian, I'm still a PL and not a Prof and don't have an OBE!
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 49
Original post by You Failed
What makes him better than any other physics professor, other than the fact that he's also a TV presenter, which has no bearing on his ability to do physics? I'm not saying he isn't, I'm just curious as to why the public hold him in such high regard when, as far as I know, he hasn't actually contributed major to physics (other than publicising it).


Well, he has a pretty face and a somewhat endearing attitude :rolleyes:

But apart from the high-definition TV shows, I think he's been pretty active in certain fields. Apparently he's been working on the Hadron Collider at CERN for a number of years now.. People seem to give him a lot of stick for his shows, but as far as I know he's never claimed to be on the frontier of science. But he wouldn't be where he is today (and by that I mean he wouldn't be a Royal Society Fellow, among other fairly impressive positions) without, as you put it, the ability to er.. 'do' physics.
Original post by Physics Enemy
People who don't want Maths/Physics dumbed down, people who care about the integrity of the subject and the integrity of those who study it. For those who don't want the subject tarnished for 'popularity' from the masses. A professor who gets a D in Maths A-Level is a tin-pot academic.

There's little more inherently fraudulent than people who aren't bright, flunked school because it was too hard, then started paying fees at 3rd rate institutions to become a 'professor'. Now he's got a TV show and interview; well at least he's played the system well, given his lack of talent.

The glory and so forth should be going to people with real talent and ability; not tin-pot academics like him. This doesn't just apply to him, but so called teachers, graduates, professors etc who can't hack pre-uni based questions/exams.

A lot of what I said isn't based on his flunked A-Level either, but what I've read about him, watched of him, his dumbed down TV shows, etc.


''Brian Edward Cox, OBE (born 3 March 1968) is a British particle physicist, a Royal Society University Research Fellow and a professor at the University of Manchester. He is a member of the High Energy Physics group at the University of Manchester, and works on the ATLAS experiment at the Large Hadron Collider, CERN, near Geneva, Switzerland. He is also working on the R&D project of the FP420 experiment in an international collaboration to upgrade the ATLAS and the CMS experiment by installing additional, smaller detectors at a distance of 420 metres (1,380 ft) from the interaction points of the main experiments.[1]''

from wikipedia
Original post by megaduck
I did A levels in 1990, there were no modules then and everything was on about four exams (per A-level) at the end of the two years. There were no resits either!

Still got four As though :wink: Although that said, it was unusual then and got me in the local papers.

What are you up to these days? Did your education get you anywhere?
Original post by bognor-regis
''Brian Edward Cox, OBE (born 3 March 1968) is a British particle physicist, a Royal Society University Research Fellow and a professor at the University of Manchester. He is a member of the High Energy Physics group at the University of Manchester, and works on the ATLAS experiment at the Large Hadron Collider, CERN, near Geneva, Switzerland. He is also working on the R&D project of the FP420 experiment in an international collaboration to upgrade the ATLAS and the CMS experiment by installing additional, smaller detectors at a distance of 420 metres (1,380 ft) from the interaction points of the main experiments.[1]''

from wikipedia

Sounds like a lot of old men patting him on the back, giving him 'prizes' and playing around with cool toys and materials. He got a D in A-Level Maths; lets be real here. He's lucky to have had the opportunity to travel to CERN, be in these projects and so forth, but I'm not going to be fooled into thinking he's clever.

Give him an IMO/IPO paper, or even a BMO/BPO paper, then we'll see.
Original post by Physics Enemy
People who don't want Maths/Physics dumbed down, people who care about the integrity of the subject and the integrity of those who study it. For those who don't want the subject tarnished for 'popularity' from the masses. A professor who gets a D in Maths A-Level is a tin-pot academic.

There's little more inherently fraudulent than people who aren't bright, flunked school because it was too hard, then started paying fees at 3rd rate institutions to become a 'professor'. Now he's got a TV show and interview; well at least he's played the system well, given his lack of talent.

The glory and so forth should be going to people with real talent and ability; not tin-pot academics like him. This doesn't just apply to him, but so called teachers, graduates, professors etc who can't hack pre-uni based questions/exams.

A lot of what I said isn't based on his flunked A-Level either, but what I've read about him, watched of him, his dumbed down TV shows, etc.


So rather than judge him on his body of research work in particle physics you want to judge him on his A-level maths grade? You expect people to take you seriously?
Original post by ChemistBoy
So rather than judge him on his body of research work in particle physics you want to judge him on his A-level maths grade? You expect people to take you seriously?


Seriously, don't bother. You are getting trolled. PE is the best troll I know on this forum. According to him, Uni Maths is useless and that STEP is the best measure of Mathematical ability.
Original post by Physics Enemy
Sounds like a lot of old men patting him on the back, giving him 'prizes' and playing around with cool toys and materials. He got a D in A-Level Maths; lets be real here. He's lucky to have had the opportunity to travel to CERN, be in these projects and so forth, but I'm not going to be fooled into thinking he's clever.

Give him an IMO/IPO paper, or even a BMO/BPO paper, then we'll see.


Reply 56
I left school at 15 with no Alevels/highers and terrible GCSEs. And I have a law degree at one of the best unis for the subject in Britain. :smile:

Teachers really need to stop putting the fear of god into people, it just makes people crash under the pressure.
Original post by igoms
I left school at 15 with no Alevels/highers and terrible GCSEs. And I have a law degree at one of the best unis for the subject in Britain. :smile:

Teachers really need to stop putting the fear of god into people, it just makes people crash under the pressure.

You know, you do have to wonder which university you went to, given that you said 'one of the best unis for the subject' rather than the actual uni. :rolleyes:

It's it's Oxbridge Law, then well done.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Simplicity
Seriously, don't bother. You are getting trolled. PE is the best troll I know on this forum. According to him, Uni Maths is useless and that STEP is the best measure of Mathematical ability.

Well I wouldn't talk about utility; STEP is useless too, at the end of the day it's not going to save anyone's life or anything. I don't actually think Uni Maths is 'useless', if by that you're referring to one's development and skill; not at a decent level anyway. I think second rate Maths degrees whereby people rote learn proofs and get awarded a 1st, are inherently useless; which DF agreed with too.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by ChemistBoy
So rather than judge him on his body of research work in particle physics you want to judge him on his A-level maths grade? You expect people to take you seriously?

So far people have told me that he's been patted on the head by old men, invited to places, and participating in projects where he gets to play around with toys and materials at the expense of tax payers. So yes, the A-Level Maths is indicative in that sense.

There's many who can't hack pre-uni stuff and do 'research work' at 2nd or 3rd rate institutions. 'Research' is another term to fool the masses.
(edited 13 years ago)

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