The Sikh Society

In on my phone, plus the cricket is on so I cannot watch the videos now, sorry.

All I will say is, I condemn any every act of violence done in the name of Hinduism. Simple as that. But it'd be ludicrous to not expect such hostility between two groups. Imagine, their religious texts deem us worthy for eternity in death, historically murdered, raped and killed wherever they have gone in India. Were Vasco da Gama, Muhammed of Ghor, Shah Jahan tolerant men? No!

Still today Christian converters convert swathes of Hindus with the lure of social status. These people come to India not to help, but to increase their membership. It's been the story of India for a thousand years now. Still Muslim groups endorse fatwas, have their OWN law board, subsidised Hajj pilgrimages, love Jihad, riots and kill lots of Swamis and Gurus (but you never hear about those).

When such horrible acts are committed by Hindus in reaction, why is that the only thing criticised? Turn on NDTV and see if they have anything but anti Hindu bias, and pro Congress and minority bias. When you saw coverage of the Gujarat riots, how much coverage was there of the train being burnt and all those people?

Only this year there were riots in Bengal where a large Hindu community was terrorised for days. Houses burnt down and business destroyed.

And why have the Farsi or Jewish communities not been targeted by Hindus? Is it perhaps because they respect Hinduism, and the indigenous religions of the country? Christians and Muslims since their introduction to India have been hostile.

I'm sick of this image of Hindus being bloodthirsty and violent to minorities when it's just not true. As if people hold Hindus to a golden standard and yet when somebody speaks about Islamic terrorism they are so quick to say 'it's just a minority'.

Operation Blue Star was a tragedy but has NOTHING to do with Hinduism and everything to do with the Indian National Congress and the Gandhi-Nehru family.


I'll say it again in case you forgot it now. I condemn and hate every piece of violence from Hindus against minorities on the grounds of religion. It makes Hinduism look bad and embarrasses everyone else.

But what I DO NOT want, is India losing its connection to Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism and forging one with Islam and Christianity. These four religions give India its identity, and I'd forsake my Indian identity if we ever lost it.


Posted from TSR Mobile

^^ Thanks for posting that!! It sounds lovely and I hadn't heard it before, I am always on the lookout for nice Shabads and this one is going on my list

Okay so I have a lot that I love listening to, I am going to post 2 in this post and tell me which one you think is better:

Listen to this one for the first 2 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye9S23m3OGU

Listen to this one between 4:00 and 6:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8rN4VYfY4g

And tell me which you guys like better, I am curious to know because I tend to get 50/50 when I ask in real life

I would probably go for the first one - it just sounds so soft - one could almost mistake it for a lullaby or a sonnet
The second one sounds alright; I just prefer the first

Thanks I like both and switch between them, depending on my mood. The first is Sheikh Farid's poetry, I love his writing and am glad the Gurus included it in Guru Granth Sahib, such a wise soul

Any others you like?

Alas, I don't know many others... I feel a tad bit ashamed that I don't understand so much what is being said as to how it's being said - the musical aspect I do try to try to find translations of them afterwards though, if that's any consolation
There was a certain old recording of 'Kirpa Karo Deen Ke Daate' on Spotify that sounded rather pleasent but I haven't been able to find it since Spotify changed the way it's search feature works. Unfortunately, all other versions of the Shabad are in different styles to this particular one so I doubt I'll ever find it again; they don't sound (asthetically) as nice

Lmfao, this is exactly why I have downloaded all my favorite Shabads! You also didn't inherit my intelligence, you got yours from your father

I remember you mentioning in another thread that you were agnostic, do your parents know?

I hope Proud_Student doesn't mind me just regurgitating what I've put in some PMs to him, but it's easier than typing everything out...

"This just get's better and better - my white friends think I'm a Sikh (but then they get confused between Islam, Sikhism and Hinduism and just mash up their beliefs and assign that to me), my Asian friends think I'm an Atheist/Agnostic, Muslims on here think/thought I was Atheist/Agnostic, my Mum just thinks that I'm stupid/being immature because I question everything rather than accepting what I'm told to believe/do, and now you [Proud_Student] thought I was an ex-Muslim

My mind is very much a battlefield where concepts, rationalisation and morals all conflict with each other in a bid for me to understand, as much as possible, everything around me.

I was brought up in a 'Sikh' family but they're not really practicing, and so I became apathetic with religion and just chose to engage largely with free thought, trying to make sense of everything, using things I've read to influence my thinking; in a way, I am a 'sikh', in that I 'seek the truth', but not a 'Sikh' in that I actively practice Sikhism, the religion - I like my objective position, though, however confused it may be"

I hope this sort of answers your question

Edit: This would make me an Agonostic-Theist

^^ Thanks for posting that!! It sounds lovely and I hadn't heard it before, I am always on the lookout for nice Shabads and this one is going on my list

Okay so I have a lot that I love listening to, I am going to post 2 in this post and tell me which one you think is better:

Listen to this one for the first 2 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye9S23m3OGU

Listen to this one between 4:00 and 6:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8rN4VYfY4g

And tell me which you guys like better, I am curious to know because I tend to get 50/50 when I ask in real life

Check this out, she is so cute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqD08g-SshU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUJhJg5ZJHw

...

Thank you



It always amazes me how laid-back Punjabi Sikh parents are with regards to religion, they may think you are immature but at least they don't force it on you; I suppose that is one of the perks of growing up in a religion that doesn't use fear to try and control people
Parents are more concerned with people being Punjabi than being Sikh. What they do not realise is that culture is finite and limited to a time and place; knowledge is infinite in that it transcends the time and place, and nothing else matters other than to implement what has been learnt, if that makes sense.

Sounds like you were born in the typical Punjabi Sikh family these days lol, not surprising to hear at all. Most 'Sikhs' are more 'Punjabi' and connect more with the culture than the actual religion.
I think they mainly connect with culture because of arranged-marriages (a concept that disgusts me).

The one thing that I think keeps them connected to the religion is the epic warrior history and stories about their ancestors.
As interesting the history is, people treat it with more importance than the teachings themselves, as I think has been mentioned in previous posts.

However, judging by the parts of your post I put in bold, you are a Sikh. The entire concept of "question everything rather than just accepting what I'm told to do/believe" is essentially what gave rise to Sikhism.
Maybe - I don't think I will ever grow my hair in the future or wear a Kara again, though. As I mention in random religion threads from time to time, 'it's about the spirituality within more so than the spirituality without'. Indeed, there are reasons, which I do understand, for people having the 5 K's, but I just feel that it is not that big a thing to me.

None of the Gurus demanded 'obedience', or told people to believe in them to be saved- that command may exist in other religions, but cannot be attributed to the Gurus of Sikhi. Gurmat - accepting and following the Gurus/Bhagats/Sheikhs/Bhatts of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is entirely voluntary with no strings attached, no promises..nothing. Everything is 110% voluntary, accepting and following occurs after one has reached an age of maturity. So there's no such thing as "I believe in Guru Nanak Dev ji and the successive Gurus because my mother and father told me to".


Have you heard about the story of Guru Nanak and the thread ceremony? Read it if you haven't, it displays the kind of mindset Sikhs are supposed to have. Can you imagine a boy of a middle class Hindu family refusing the Yagyopaveet ceremony in front of a whole gathering of relatives, neighbors and friends, simply because because he saw no logic in blindly following age-old rituals?


Guru Nanak Sahib did such a thing.


He questioned everything, and so should we, and the onus of first studying about a philosophy before questioning it always lies on the questioner.


And that wasn't a small ceremony either..imagine the crowd, the food cooked (a whole live goat was slaughtered),...and the imposing Brahmins and elders of the community etc etc..and the young Nanak saying "NO" - No janeau unless you can show me a "thread" that wont break, won't be soiled, wont be burnt with my body at cremation etc...and then Nanak spelled it out word by word what an actual Janeau should be made of..a janeau that he would be proud to wear.


He said: "Make mercy thy cotton, contentment thy thread, continence its knot, truth its twist. That would make a janeu for the soul; if thou have it, O Brahman, then put it on me. It will not break, or become soiled, or be burned, or lost."


Imo, if more Sikhs thought like you, we would have less problems in the Panth today

...

Probably one of the rare few that Guru Nanak Ji composed the music to go along with the shabad itself:

Lol agreed, it is like, its better to marry a Punjabi who just so happens to be the worst possible 'Sikh' than to marry out of your race to a person who may be a very good Sikh. Very sad.

Preaching to the choir, yo. Anti-arranged marriages crew checking in Probably because of ignorance of Sikhi teachings, most of the older generation doesn't seem to know their stuff (from what Ive seen). Thankfully, the younger people are turning things around



Well lucky you, because Amrit isn't necessary to be a Sikh. I'm not trying to take away from its signficance- I'd love to take it myself one day. But it is not a prerequisite to being a Sikh. If you decide that it is not your cup of tea, then fairplay, it shouldn't get in the way of you connecting with the Guru. As Guru Granth Sahib puts it, "The Shabad alone is Ambrosial Nectar; O Nanak, the Gurmukhs obtain it." While it is important and significant, the greatest nectar and Amrit is contained within the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib



It is not a race, don't try and compete with others. I don't understand what you mean by "I do not fully enact what I believe". Sikhism is not about rituals that you must follow in order to call yourself a Sikh. It is an attitude and adherence to certain principles:

a) Naam Jap= remember and meditate of Ik Onkar with your mind, do not forget that the light inside of you is also in eveyone and everything else, so treat others with respect and don't be a slave to your ego.

b) Kirat Karro= do things the honest way, no lying/cheating/stepping on others to get to the top. Live your life honestly and earn your living honestly.

c) Vand Chakko= lead by example and give back to the world. Help others, share what you have, do charity work, feed the hungry and take care of your fellow creation.

Those 3 principles are what make somebody a Sikh. You can start enacting them today, all you need to do is believe in yourself and stay in Chardi Kala (high spirits/positive attitude)

Beautiful

Here is one of Guru Arjan Dev Ji's: