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America The Land of The Free
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Original post by MirandaPanda
Likewise with the UK too; as I've said, until legislation is actually passed legalising same-sex marriage, its ridiculous to use it as a factor.
Its not me being patronising, but rather pointing something out; that, it appears, you can not sadly read/understand English, as you've missed the point of comparing an entire country of 320m people (one of the largest in the world), to one of 60m only (see below).
As is idiotically comparing a country the size and breadth of the US, to the UK; as I said before, its like comparing apples and oranges, but alas, you have yet again failed to comprehend this
Its not me being patronising, but rather pointing something out; that, it appears, you can not sadly read/understand English, as you've missed the point of comparing an entire country of 320m people (one of the largest in the world), to one of 60m only (see below).
As is idiotically comparing a country the size and breadth of the US, to the UK; as I said before, its like comparing apples and oranges, but alas, you have yet again failed to comprehend this
I'm saddened that a person like you gets to not only vote to destroy the US, but also gets to vote to destroy britain too.
I don't agree with lewis on, erm, anything, but he's not an idiot (just misguided).
Original post by DYKWIA
I'm saddened that a person like you gets to not only vote to destroy the US.
Bottom line, thankfully most Americans side with me on the issue of same-sex marriage, as most Americans support it; so you and your minority can kiss me where the sun doesn't shine
Original post by MirandaPanda
Bottom line, thankfully most Americans side with me on the issue of same-sex marriage, as most Americans support it; so you and your minority can kiss me where the sun doesn't shine
Nationally, around 50% of people hold my views. In many states it is a lot higher. What right do you have to force gay marriage on those states and those people who don't want it. You only get your way through force, and the American people will see that.
Original post by barratt15
BTW, you pointed me to someone who made a point you are too ignorant to realise when he said "but if you urgently need healthcare you aren't gonna be denied it just because you don't have insurance."
I advise you to stop drawing people's attention to people who are better-informed than your good self.
I advise you to stop drawing people's attention to people who are better-informed than your good self.
i tend to ignore any post he makes at me, hes like a stuck record
Original post by Gales
Nation-wide legalisation in the USA would be a triump for human rights, and it would set an excellent example worldwide.
This sentence is the problem with the basic attitude of many Brits. America is not just one big country, it is a federation of 51 independent states with their own legislature, their own governer, their own social policy, their own economic policy, their own culture and their own laws.
There is nothing inherently "better" about having a distant federal government deciding on laws from Washington D.C. instead of a body elected in that state. ITaking your logic to its natural conclusion, we should hand all law-making powers to the "progressive" EU.
Again, even without gay marriage, gays in the UK have much more rights than those in the USA (not only wg to unions, but also blood donation, adoption etc.)
At least one can envisage it happening nation-wide in the UK. The truth is every citizen in the UK has access to a same-sex union (which gives all the same rights as marriage, bar the use of the name 'marriage') whilst around 30 states in the USA have no recognition of same-sex unions, with 18 states having constitutional bans on same-sex unions.
At least one can envisage it happening nation-wide in the UK. The truth is every citizen in the UK has access to a same-sex union (which gives all the same rights as marriage, bar the use of the name 'marriage') whilst around 30 states in the USA have no recognition of same-sex unions, with 18 states having constitutional bans on same-sex unions.
You can dress it up any way you want - the fact is some states have legalised gay marriage; the UK has not and there is no certainty that it will. If we are using gay marriage as the milestone, then Massachussets/Iowa/Washington/others are more progressive than the UK. That is a simple fact and you can't argue your way out of it.
Obviously it is true that some other states are less progressive, but thats what happens in a federal system - some states will be less progressive than others, just how we are less progressive than other European countries in all sorts of areas.
Blood donation is a pretty bad example given that the ban on homosexual men giving blood in the UK was only lifted in October, and the federal FDA is considering doing the same in the US. Even if you agree that gay adoption is part of gay rights (many strongly contest this) its still a weak example, google says only three states restrict lesbian/gay adoptoin.
Original post by alex5455
i tend to ignore any post he makes at me, hes like a stuck record
And therefore symbolises all Americans? Let's hope they don't read your posts and think you speak for all Brits.
Original post by Tara Gonzalez
Original post by Tara Gonzalez
It is the land of the free, paid for in the blood of our patriots.It is a democracy where people are allowed to fail if that is their fate, or succeed if that is their fortune, But that does not mean we are our brothers keeper. The european health care is a failure. You should get educated, and get a job or start a business. Freedom is not free, we paid for it.
who's we? america is founded on tax dodging and genocide nothing more.
european healthcare is a failure? because we dont let our citizens die needless deaths because they dont have millions of £/$/E in the bank? theres a good reason the US healthcare system is one of the most heavily criticised in the world.
Original post by cl_steele
who's we? america is founded on tax dodging and genocide nothing more.
european healthcare is a failure? because we dont let our citizens die needless deaths because they dont have millions of £/$/E in the bank? theres a good reason the US healthcare system is one of the most heavily criticised in the world.
european healthcare is a failure? because we dont let our citizens die needless deaths because they dont have millions of £/$/E in the bank? theres a good reason the US healthcare system is one of the most heavily criticised in the world.
Health insurance doesn't cost millions. And look at Obama's reforms and get back to us, please.
America is land of the free- as long as you follow all of the rules.
Original post by cl_steele
who's we? america is founded on tax dodging and genocide nothing more.
european healthcare is a failure? because we dont let our citizens die needless deaths because they dont have millions of £/$/E in the bank? theres a good reason the US healthcare system is one of the most heavily criticised in the world.
european healthcare is a failure? because we dont let our citizens die needless deaths because they dont have millions of £/$/E in the bank? theres a good reason the US healthcare system is one of the most heavily criticised in the world.
America was founded on principles of economic and political freedom. The founding fathers weren't perfect, but they established the great moral foundations our country is built on.
It's a lie that our healthcare system allows people to die. If you need urgent medical attention it isn't gonna be refused to you, just because you can't pay. Our healthcare system works well, and at least it doesn't have one of the worst waiting time records in the world as well as the worst cancer treatment records.
Original post by NuckingFut
America is land of the free- as long as you follow all of the rules.
Like any other country?!
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by cl_steele
who's we? america is founded on tax dodging and genocide nothing more..
Also a War of Independence from their colonial masters (us, btw, who oppressed the Americans for years). Tax dodging? What on earth do you mean there? And show me a country please that has not had a history of persecution and 'genocide' (as you wrongly call it).
Original post by Tara Gonzalez
It is the land of the free, paid for in the blood of our patriots.It is a democracy where people are allowed to fail if that is their fate, or succeed if that is their fortune, But that does not mean we are our brothers keeper. The european health care is a failure. You should get educated, and get a job or start a business. Freedom is not free, we paid for it.
America is yet to enter into the civilised world, letting your people fall to disease and illness because "they failed" is nothing short of atrocious. I think it is you who should get educated, it's much better to pay for healthcare for your workforce and keep the valuable experienced workers than constantly have people fall completely out of work due to an illness which is too costly to treat. Your senators know it, since they get free healthcare themselves
Original post by DYKWIA
It's a lie that our healthcare system allows people to die. If you need urgent medical attention it isn't gonna be refused to you, just because you can't pay. Our healthcare system works well, and at least it doesn't have one of the worst waiting time records in the world as well as the worst cancer treatment records.
Like any other country?!
It's a lie that our healthcare system allows people to die. If you need urgent medical attention it isn't gonna be refused to you, just because you can't pay. Our healthcare system works well, and at least it doesn't have one of the worst waiting time records in the world as well as the worst cancer treatment records.
Like any other country?!
Those are some good points. People who bash the US system have to learn that, for those who pay for insurance, care is IMMEASURABLY better than on the NHS - hence why so many people in the UK are with Bupa and private companies.
People here get so blinkered with their patriotic fervour for the NHS they fail to see merits of the US system and the failures of our NHS - which doesn't give life-saving cancer drugs based on cost-analysis and puts vulnerable patients out in a waiting room for hours when they need immediate attention.
That said, 45 million Americans don't have health insurance and something as simple as a hernia can ruin your life if you can't get the treatment. I see both sides but I'm broadly with you based on those points you made.
Original post by KCosmo
America is yet to enter into the civilised world, letting your people fall to disease and illness because "they failed" is nothing short of atrocious. I think it is you who should get educated, it's much better to pay for healthcare for your workforce and keep the valuable experienced workers than constantly have people fall completely out of work due to an illness which is too costly to treat. Your senators know it, since they get free healthcare themselves
Fat lot of good that's doing us. Check the latest employment figures. NHS doesn't mean fit, healthy, happy workforce. It's also hopelessly inefficient and in need of serious reform.
Original post by barratt15
Original post by barratt15
Health insurance doesn't cost millions. And look at Obama's reforms and get back to us, please.
yet its out of the reach of many american citizens? his reforms were half assed and expensive and have done little to change the core problems anyway ... the fact you all must still pay for what is a basic human right is disgraceful. plus from what i've heard an incoming republican government would take an axe to the 'obama care' anyway...
Original post by barratt15
Also a War of Independence from their colonial masters (us, btw, who oppressed the Americans for years). Tax dodging? What on earth do you mean there? And show me a country please that has not had a history of persecution and 'genocide' (as you wrongly call it).
we oppressed the 'americans' for years? these americans we 'oppressed' were british citizens...? lets take the boston tea party and work our way upwards.
well Britain was not founded by wiping out and segregating the indigenous population, nor was any other european country i care to think about ... at least with in the last half a millennia .. remember i didnt say a history of persecution and genocide i said founded on it, lets take thanks giving where it is actively celebrated.
Original post by jacketpotato
America is not just one big country, it is a federation of 51 independent states with their own legislature, their own governer, their own social policy, their own economic policy, their own culture and their own laws.
51? Am I missing something?
Original post by DYKWIA
Original post by DYKWIA
America was founded on principles of economic and political freedom. The founding fathers weren't perfect, but they established the great moral foundations our country is built on.
It's a lie that our healthcare system allows people to die. If you need urgent medical attention it isn't gonna be refused to you, just because you can't pay. Our healthcare system works well, and at least it doesn't have one of the worst waiting time records in the world as well as the worst cancer treatment records.
It's a lie that our healthcare system allows people to die. If you need urgent medical attention it isn't gonna be refused to you, just because you can't pay. Our healthcare system works well, and at least it doesn't have one of the worst waiting time records in the world as well as the worst cancer treatment records.
this is coming from one of the most prolific homo bashers on TSR ?
aha great morale foundations ... interesting that; vietnam, columbine, kent state, iraq etc etc have ripped that morale foundation to pieces.
whilst that is of course true they do get hospital treatment, from what i've been led to believe if you dont have health insurance you go to a substandard hospital for treatment, if your insurance runs out youre out on your ass and your treatment is stopped or youre left with vast debts to manage... i dont understand how the 'richest country in the world' demands its people pay for what is a basic human right but at the same time spends around $700,000,000,000 on defence...
Original post by cl_steele
we oppressed the 'americans' for years? these americans we 'oppressed' were british citizens...? lets take the boston tea party and work our way upwards.
we oppressed the 'americans' for years? these americans we 'oppressed' were british citizens...? lets take the boston tea party and work our way upwards.
Don't know what you are going on about. We colonised what is now mainland America. Our King ruled their country with an iron fist and AMERICANS paid taxes to a British Parliament they had no say in electing. You ever heard of 'no taxation without representation'? Yet another example of American 'genocide' or something is it?
And for the love of all things holy, Americans DO GET HEALTHCARE! Emergency care is given to all. And 80% of the population is protected by health insurance.
Original post by DYKWIA
Nationally, around 50% of people hold my views. In many states it is a lot higher.
Its around the 40%-45% mark actually (i.e. who oppose such legislation), with the MAJORITY of Americans nonetheless for same-sex marriage; and that is a figure that is increasing year-on-year, without "force" and "people seeing this force" LOL. As for states against the giving same-sex couples the constitutional right for marriage, I believe most of these states also were reluctant at one point in giving African-Americans their basic rights too.
Don't Ask Don't Tell has been repealed, the defence of marriage act has been dropped by the White House, more and more states are legalising same-sex marriage and indeed, the recent decision from California about Prop 8 also supported the cause; so as I said, feel free to kiss me where the sun doesn't shine, as you represent an ever dwindling minority thankfully
Original post by cl_steele
this is coming from one of the most prolific homo bashers on TSR ?
aha great morale foundations ... interesting that; vietnam, columbine, kent state, iraq etc etc have ripped that morale foundation to pieces.
aha great morale foundations ... interesting that; vietnam, columbine, kent state, iraq etc etc have ripped that morale foundation to pieces.
My historical analysis tells me those events happened centuries after the Founders were, you know, Founding and all that.
Columbine, for god's sake! Two crazy teenagers hyped up through playing violent games, and that reflects the morals of Jefferson and the like?!?!
Let's all find individual crimes and say they're caused by the Founding Fathers' concept of America!
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