Girls: Pole Dancing?
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Original post by py0alb
Do you actually know anything about this? Or are you just guessing?
Most pole dancing societies have a pole dancing instructor.
Most pole dancing instructors are professional pole dancers.
Most professional pole dancers work in strip clubs.
At the very least a strip club will be able to put you in touch with a pole dancing instructor.
Its just a fact. I don't get why some people get on their moral high horse about this, like they want to try pole dancing but the idea of mixing with someone who works in a strip club revolts them. ****ing hypocrites.
Most pole dancing societies have a pole dancing instructor.
Most pole dancing instructors are professional pole dancers.
Most professional pole dancers work in strip clubs.
At the very least a strip club will be able to put you in touch with a pole dancing instructor.
Its just a fact. I don't get why some people get on their moral high horse about this, like they want to try pole dancing but the idea of mixing with someone who works in a strip club revolts them. ****ing hypocrites.
Lol.
Do the girls in the society that the OP wants to join strip in their lessons? No.
Do the girls get paid? No. THEY pay, for the lessons.
Do they learn in strip clubs with men around them? No. (Unless there's a guy in the class)
So ****ing what the instructors are professionals? That makes the lessons worth the money because they're being taught well. Do you get taught other sports/exercises by someone who doesn't know what they're doing? No. It doesn't mean the girls have to learn how to strip and arouse horny men just because that might be what the instructor does.
Some classes will be for the purpose of learning to become professional strippers yes, but as you have been told many a time - thats not the kind of class the OP wants to join. So stop acting like the fact that the instructor might be a professional pole dancer makes a difference... it's irrelevant.
Original post by py0alb
I'm perfectly at ease with the fact that my opinion might turn out to be wrong. There are many times I have been wrong and I have graciously accepted defeat and changed my opinion.
However, seeing as you haven't even attempted to put forward an alternate hypothesis, I don't anticipate this being one of those occasions.
However, seeing as you haven't even attempted to put forward an alternate hypothesis, I don't anticipate this being one of those occasions.
I haven't seen you graciously accept defeat on this thread..
Original post by imy7
I haven't seen you graciously accept defeat on this thread..
I haven't been wrong on this thread.
Original post by py0alb
Precisely. I have an opinion on this matter that I think is correct (aka a "fact") and I am defending it. That is what a debate is.
That's not what a fact is though. No wonder we're not getting anywhere when you don't realise that.
Original post by py0alb
Do you actually know anything about this? Or are you just guessing?
Most pole dancing societies have a pole dancing instructor.
Most pole dancing instructors are professional pole dancers.
Most professional pole dancers work in strip clubs.
At the very least a strip club will be able to put you in touch with a pole dancing instructor.
Its just a fact. I don't get why some people get on their moral high horse about this, like they want to try pole dancing but the idea of mixing with someone who works in a strip club revolts them. ****ing hypocrites.
Most pole dancing societies have a pole dancing instructor.
Most pole dancing instructors are professional pole dancers.
Most professional pole dancers work in strip clubs.
At the very least a strip club will be able to put you in touch with a pole dancing instructor.
Its just a fact. I don't get why some people get on their moral high horse about this, like they want to try pole dancing but the idea of mixing with someone who works in a strip club revolts them. ****ing hypocrites.
Do you know anything about this? How do you know that most pole instructors are professional pole dancers? I think you're just making assumptions.
Let's just clarify something.
Let's say the OP joins a pole dancing society and gets really good at pole dancing (all power to her).
Let's say she puts on a show for friends at the end of the year showcasing all the moves she has learnt. Obviously she will be wearing some kind of hot pants and a tube top as we have already been told that its impossible to pole dance in more clothing.
Now just hypothetically: if she did the exact same show in a strip club, would she get paid for it? Yes, undoubtedly.
So we can all agree that the actual activity is effectively identical. Its merely the setting and the payment that are different.
Let's say the OP joins a pole dancing society and gets really good at pole dancing (all power to her).
Let's say she puts on a show for friends at the end of the year showcasing all the moves she has learnt. Obviously she will be wearing some kind of hot pants and a tube top as we have already been told that its impossible to pole dance in more clothing.
Now just hypothetically: if she did the exact same show in a strip club, would she get paid for it? Yes, undoubtedly.
So we can all agree that the actual activity is effectively identical. Its merely the setting and the payment that are different.
You guys are hilarious! 
After going to a pole dancing competition with some girl mates and having this discussion afterwards its interesting to read. Bottom line is pole dancing attracts stigma due to its origin which is unlikely to change in our lifetimes!. The thing that is unconvincing for me is saying "well its in a studio and with just girls". If your trying to get good at something and succeed, then you would usually enter a show or competition like in other fitness/sport activites. In which case kills that argument. Also if you don't enter the competiton or show when you are good, the the whole effort is pointless.
I think girls that want to pole dance need to accept that its a little slutty and embrace it. I know i wont be complaining if the numbers of pole dancers increase, whatever reason they glorify it with
After going to a pole dancing competition with some girl mates and having this discussion afterwards its interesting to read. Bottom line is pole dancing attracts stigma due to its origin which is unlikely to change in our lifetimes!. The thing that is unconvincing for me is saying "well its in a studio and with just girls". If your trying to get good at something and succeed, then you would usually enter a show or competition like in other fitness/sport activites. In which case kills that argument. Also if you don't enter the competiton or show when you are good, the the whole effort is pointless.
I think girls that want to pole dance need to accept that its a little slutty and embrace it. I know i wont be complaining if the numbers of pole dancers increase, whatever reason they glorify it with
Original post by New...Romantic
That's not what a fact is though. No wonder we're not getting anywhere when you don't realise that.
Yes it is. Epistemologically, a fact is anything that we know. Knowledge is defined as justified true belief. Technically, this is locally indistiguishable from justified belief.
I believe it and my belief is justified. Hence it is a fact. If you don't believe me, raise the same question with a professional epistemologist.
Thanks for playing.
Do you know anything about this? How do you know that most pole instructors are professional pole dancers? I think you're just making assumptions.
Both the ones I have met are. Which although not conclusive, I am willing to bet is a bigger sample size than either yourself or Drunk Punx have surveyed.
Original post by py0alb
Let's just clarify something.
Let's say the OP joins a pole dancing society and gets really good at pole dancing (all power to her).
Let's say she puts on a show for friends at the end of the year showcasing all the moves she has learnt. Obviously she will be wearing some kind of hot pants and a tube top as we have already been told that its impossible to pole dance in more clothing.
Now just hypothetically: if she did the exact same show in a strip club, would she get paid for it? Yes, undoubtedly.
So we can all agree that the actual activity is effectively identical. Its merely the setting and the payment that are different.
Let's say the OP joins a pole dancing society and gets really good at pole dancing (all power to her).
Let's say she puts on a show for friends at the end of the year showcasing all the moves she has learnt. Obviously she will be wearing some kind of hot pants and a tube top as we have already been told that its impossible to pole dance in more clothing.
Now just hypothetically: if she did the exact same show in a strip club, would she get paid for it? Yes, undoubtedly.
So we can all agree that the actual activity is effectively identical. Its merely the setting and the payment that are different.
It depends on the kind of dancing they learn really. Yeah i agree that if its the type of dancing strippers do in clubs then (hypothetically) there's not much difference other than the setting and payment, but if they learn the style thats more gymnastics related then i think there would be a difference because those moves aren't provocative and they have a totally different purpose.
Original post by py0alb
I haven't been wrong on this thread.
Now you're contradicting yourself.
Original post by imy7
It depends on the kind of dancing they learn really. Yeah i agree that if its the type of dancing strippers do in clubs then (hypothetically) there's not much difference other than the setting and payment, but if they learn the style thats more gymnastics related then i think there would be a difference because those moves aren't provocative and they have a totally different purpose.
Someone posted a video of the "more gymnastic" style, and although impressive, it still didn't look like anything you wouldn't expect to see in a strip club.
If its possible for pole dancing not to be sexually provocative, I have yet to see an example of it.
Original post by py0alb
Yes it is. Epistemologically, a fact is anything that we know. Knowledge is defined as justified true belief. Technically, this is locally indistiguishable from justified belief.
I believe it and my belief is justified. Hence it is a fact. If you don't believe me, raise the same question with a professional epistemologist.
Thanks for playing.
Both the ones I have met are. Which although not conclusive, I am willing to bet is a bigger sample size than either yourself or Drunk Punx have surveyed.
I believe it and my belief is justified. Hence it is a fact. If you don't believe me, raise the same question with a professional epistemologist.
Thanks for playing.
Both the ones I have met are. Which although not conclusive, I am willing to bet is a bigger sample size than either yourself or Drunk Punx have surveyed.
At a basic level a fact is something that is true, exists and can't be disputed. Someone's opinion is not a fact unless everyone agrees with it. In which case I would say it's not really an opinion.
Both? And you're throwing around the word 'most' as though you know. Well my class has four instructors. Three students and a lawyer. None work in strip clubs. I also know people who go to two other pole groups nearby and none of their instructors work in clubs either. And Village Whisper has said her instructor is a student. I'm not going to say most instructors don't work in strip clubs because I honestly don't know, but between us we know more teachers that aren't strippers than those who are.
Original post by New...Romantic
At a basic level a fact is something that is true, exists and can't be disputed. Someone's opinion is not a fact unless everyone agrees with it. In which case I would say it's not really an opinion.
So if one single person disagrees that the sky is blue, that is no longer a fact? Wut?
All known facts are opinions and all opinions are subjectively facts.
Original post by py0alb
So if one single person disagrees that the sky is blue, that is no longer a fact? Wut?
All known facts are opinions and all opinions are subjectively facts.
All known facts are opinions and all opinions are subjectively facts.
Fine, a fact is something that is generally believed to be true. Now are you going to address the more relevant parts of my previous post?
Original post by New...Romantic
Fine, a fact is something that is generally believed to be true. Now are you going to address the more relevant parts of my previous post?
What, your anecdotal evidence vs mine? There's not much to say, anecdotal evidence is largely meaningless. We've established that some are, some aren't.
Still, if you desparately wanted to find a local pole dancer and there was nothing under "P" in the yellow pages, where would you look next?
Original post by py0alb
What, your anecdotal evidence vs mine? There's not much to say, anecdotal evidence is largely meaningless. We've established that some are, some aren't.
Still, if you desparately wanted to find a local pole dancer and there was nothing under "P" in the yellow pages, where would you look next?
Still, if you desparately wanted to find a local pole dancer and there was nothing under "P" in the yellow pages, where would you look next?
Still suggests that some of the statements you're throwing about as facts are unfounded.
Google? If I wanted to find a pole exercise class I wouldn't look under 'S' if that's what you're getting at. But if it was for a stag do I would. So we're back to context.
Original post by py0alb
Someone posted a video of the "more gymnastic" style, and although impressive, it still didn't look like anything you wouldn't expect to see in a strip club.
If its possible for pole dancing not to be sexually provocative, I have yet to see an example of it.
If its possible for pole dancing not to be sexually provocative, I have yet to see an example of it.
I think its more about the fact that the girls dont intend it to be provocative.
It's difficult because men will probably find a girl dancing with a pole provocative no matter what kind of dance she's doing with it.. If that is your point then you're right.
But I do think the purpose of the dancing what makes the two styles totally different (along with the the setting and payment differences).
edit: i'd like to add that if men cant help but find girls doing exercise with a pole then that's their problem, not the girl's
(edited 12 years ago)
I agree pole dancing classes should not be supported by universities. Pole dancing although a talented and demanding 'sport' on face value has under and over tones of sexuality due to it's association with being sexest and degrading women to women in the commericial world.
Original post by New...Romantic
Fine, a fact is something that is generally believed to be true.
Sorry to harp on, but now you're saying that it was a fact that the world used to be flat?
Original post by DWC
You guys are hilarious!
After going to a pole dancing competition with some girl mates and having this discussion afterwards its interesting to read. Bottom line is pole dancing attracts stigma due to its origin which is unlikely to change in our lifetimes!. The thing that is unconvincing for me is saying "well its in a studio and with just girls". If your trying to get good at something and succeed, then you would usually enter a show or competition like in other fitness/sport activites. In which case kills that argument. Also if you don't enter the competiton or show when you are good, the the whole effort is pointless.
I think girls that want to pole dance need to accept that its a little slutty and embrace it. I know i wont be complaining if the numbers of pole dancers increase, whatever reason they glorify it with
After going to a pole dancing competition with some girl mates and having this discussion afterwards its interesting to read. Bottom line is pole dancing attracts stigma due to its origin which is unlikely to change in our lifetimes!. The thing that is unconvincing for me is saying "well its in a studio and with just girls". If your trying to get good at something and succeed, then you would usually enter a show or competition like in other fitness/sport activites. In which case kills that argument. Also if you don't enter the competiton or show when you are good, the the whole effort is pointless.
I think girls that want to pole dance need to accept that its a little slutty and embrace it. I know i wont be complaining if the numbers of pole dancers increase, whatever reason they glorify it with
Why is it pointless though? What about the personal satisfaction of knowing you can do something well? There are many singers, for example, who might take lessons and practice and become amazing at it. They don't all then enter The X Factor or whatever just because they're good. They might be housewives with children, with the voice of Whitney Houston. Why can't that be enough, if they're happy? That's what I don't get. You could train to be an incredible pole dancer, but that doesn't mean you then have to enter world-class competitions. It's not a waste of effort if the person is happy with themselves and what they can do.
Original post by py0alb
Sorry to harp on, but now you're saying that it was a fact that the world used to be flat?
Getting even more off-topic now. Okay fine, maybe it would be better to say something generally believed to be true that has been proven? I don't know, I do science. Facts are facts, theories are theories, opinions are opinions.
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