Girls: Pole Dancing?

You missed the point.

Women do enjoy pole-dancing so that's why they do it. What I'm saying is, flaunting their body is the reason why they enjoy it.

Astounding that women take up hobbies like dancing, gymnastics and pole-dancing, spend £££ on make-up, clothes, try crash diets, hit sunbeds and go through copious amounts of fake-tan and some even go so far as paying for boob jobs and you still get a select few who claim to be beautiful and unique snowflakes. That they just do these things "because they like to".

The reason why you like it is because it makes you look better. It makes you look more sexually attractive. This is why you like to. This is why you enjoy it. This is the subtext behind "it's just fun".

You sort of remind me of beta white knights who go out of their way to claim they're different from other men.

Why are you telling me what I like to do and why I like to do it? Surely I would know better than you?

And you missed some of my points too. Four year old girls dance, is their motivation to flaunt their bodies?

Erm, at 4 year old I would think the decision to dance is predominantly with their parents.

But you raise an interesting point. Do sub-conscious evolutionary mechanisms only come into play once puberty is reached? Doubtful. Many young lads who play footy are fiercely competitive when they do, and team sports are just a spin-off of tribal warfare, if you think about it.

Are you trying to say that all women go on crash diets, use sunbeds etc? Not sure I really know what point you're trying to make there. I'm not saying I'm unique, I'm saying that these are reason why I like it and why other girls might.

Crash diets are always found in women's magazines. Where there is supply there is usually a demand. And I'm not really sure if you've even made a counter-point here. It seems you've tried to take things in a different directions so you can circumvent the point I made.
Are you denying that women spend alot on their appearance and endure starvation diets in order to look better? Or maybe they're doing it because they're bored? Think about it.

And you've ignored my question. So go on then, name some of these sports than you suggest would be equally as good as pole.

For strength? I guess resistance training. Lifting weights. For flexibility? Yoga, isometric stretching and dynamic stretching. For sexiness? I guess stripping or lap dancing.

My responses are in bold since you're arguments are becoming increasingly fragmented. I must ask why you are becoming so defensive?

Well that's going to get confusing.

1. Yes it would be the parents' decision. How many parents do you know that would happily send a toddler off to dancing if it really was about showing off in a sexual way? I think it is an interesting point. Little girls tend to go to dancing and gymnastics, little boys tend to go to football and karate. Maybe that has something to do with why we prefer these activities as adults?

Never claimed toddlers are trying to be sexual. If you're having these thoughts then I suggest you get help my friend.

The second point seems to be nature/nurture debate. There is reasons beyond early childhood conditioning as to why we prefer certain activities as adults. Indeed, they must be some sort of conditioning in place that would explain why certain genders lean towards certain sports/activities at a young age.

Try this then. Why don't men tend to find dancing as fun as women do?

inb4 you're old childhood friend bob who was a ballerina.

2. I didn't make a counter point, I wanted you to explain what your point was. And it seems to be that women are airheads? Some women might fit into your stereotype but not all, come on.

My point was that women tend to enjoy things that make them look better. I don't see why you're getting so defensive over such things. It's not like there's anything wrong with such an ambition. Perhaps some of your own personal insecurities are at play here, or perhaps you're fear of being judged by other women.

And what's with the "all women are airheads" comment? I'm guessing you want me to say things like that because righteous anger and customary outrage towards misogynistic comments would be more comfortable for you. Again...I deem you're being way to paranoid and defensive.

3. I actually would like to do yoga but there aren't any classes near me, I'd have to join a gym. Same with zumba which is another class I'd have been interested in. Resistance training and weights sound suspiciously like the gym to me. The gym's just not for me.

Resistance training doesn't flaunt the body, so that's why it's "not for you". Do you really not see what I'm getting at? Most women feel the same as you do. Hence why there is very few women in free weights areas in gyms across the world.

I'm defensive because I don't like being told why I do something, especially not by someone who doesn't even know me.

This is not about you.

Really don't see why you're getting defensive.

You claimed that dancing is only about flaunting your body, I'm just trying to get you to re-evaluate that opinion. Why don't men find dancing as fun as women? I don't know, isn't that a large part of this debate? A lot of the guys that have posted on here haven't accepted 'pole is fun' as a reason for doing it and maybe that's because they don't find dancing enjoyable. It's also exactly my point, that girls tend to dance from an early age and that might be why women enjoy it as adults. Although I'd also argue than 'pole dancing' isn't actually 'dancing' in the way that ballet or salsa is.

As for women enjoying things that make them look better, is that look as in physical appearance or as in the way they come across? Like having a 'provocative' hobby? I don't doubt that some women do pole for that exact reason. But honestly, nobody looks their best in the middle of a pole class if that's what you were meaning.

That is not why it's not for me. Yet another example of you (wrongly) dictating why I feel the way I do. A lot of people might be intimidated by gyms and weights. Maybe you enjoy the gym but it doesn't make me, or anyone else, wrong for not enjoying it.

Let's be honest, we're not having a debate about anything. All you're doing is rationalizing the fact that you feel slightly embarrassed by the sexual nature of the activity you have chosen, and every post you make is nothing more than tedious reassurances that you're "only doing it for fun" or are "only doing it for the strength". I can see why you're finding it hard to be objective when you're desperate to break away from a stereotype.

The irony of it is that my original post in the thread was defending pole-dancing and the fact that women seem to be lured to do it and find it fun. The fact that you still got defensive says it all really. Chill.

I'm not embarrassed at all, I don't even see it as sexual. But obviously judging from the response to this thread a lot of people do. What I object to are the generalisations that you spout ('they do this', 'they like that') and that's why I've been defensive. Obviously you feel that all women only do pole to show off and fine, you can think that. You're wrong, but you can think that if you like.

Well maybe you like the idea of doing a performance-based sport, but don't have the confidence to actually perform?

I used the word "perform" because you're use of the term "show-off" is more of a negative one.

And congratulations on resorting to customary TSR response #1 "do not generalize".

Well 'perform' and 'show-off' have two totally different meanings. And you've repeatedly used the word 'flaunt' which I feel is negative.

Don't generalise then.

No matter what spin or connotation is used, be it "flaunt", "show off" or "perform" - it is obvious that you do not have the confidence to do any of them.

Ha and how do you know this? The same way you magically know why I wouldn't go to the gym?

Anyway, there's no need to be rude.

It doesn't take magic. People who do performance sports and do not perform are obviously lacking the confidence to do so, or they are not good enough (and these two go hand-in-hand).

I wouldn't exactly say I'm being rude. As has been stated many times - you're just defensive.

I think it is quite rude to attack someone's potential confidence issues.

But fortunately I don't have any. Wrong again. Okay I haven't performed in a show but then I haven't had the opportunity. There is a third option, that they just don't want to for whatever reason.

Well I disagree with that as well. Being called on "not being good enough" is the greatest motivation in the world and that's why many successful athletes (and people in general) are their own biggest critic. People who make excuses are the one's who get nowhere, lol.

And like I said, this thread isn't about you. The self-orientated nature of each and every one of your posts is becoming irksome, my friend.

Let's be honest, we're not having a debate about anything. All you're doing is rationalizing the fact that you feel slightly embarrassed by the sexual nature of the activity you have chosen, and every post you make is nothing more than tedious reassurances that you're "only doing it for fun" or are "only doing it for the strength". I can see why you're finding it hard to be objective when you're desperate to break away from a stereotype.

The irony of it is that my original post in the thread was defending pole-dancing and the fact that women seem to be lured to do it and find it fun. The fact that you still got defensive says it all really. Chill.

It's one thing criticising yourself, that's not what we're talking about here though.

Ugh are you serious? A few posts back you made a personal comment and actually said 'you don't have the confidence'. How is that not about me? You know what's irksome? Your superior attitude. It's a shame but I really think you believe the things you've said.

Anyway, I'm fed up now. Once again, you think what you like.

Well if you don't perform it would suggest that you don't have the confidence. You'll get there eventually, when you've practiced long enough.

But this isn't about me.

DWC's post should have been the last in this thread, sums it up really.