[kenryou]

Does anyone study in Edinburgh? Will like to find out more about the cost of living there. Like how much does an average meal costs, etc.

Thanks!

[Vikitora]

OI! A guy really called Elson Ong here? Could you please send me a private message, I'm your cousin but as I don't have your e-mail address and have gotten rid of facebook (yes, I'm still living), we lost touch.

Besides, can anyone tell me what the point of going t6o a British uni is if you've got a pretty good uni right in your own city? Because to me, spending that amount of money is pretty pointless.. as British unis are massively overrated, if your consideration is based on the amount of stuff you learn there. I mean, why don't you go USA? Much better unis and not that much more expensive for you, if you think about it.

[Narev]

(Original post by Vikitora)
Besides, can anyone tell me what the point of going t6o a British uni is if you've got a pretty good uni right in your own city? Because to me, spending that amount of money is pretty pointless.. as British unis are massively overrated, if your consideration is based on the amount of stuff you learn there. I mean, why don't you go USA? Much better unis and not that much more expensive for you, if you think about it.

Experience a different culture and learning environment? Opportunity to go to London West End and watch musicals? Get to tour Europe at extremely cheap prices since air travel in Europe is cheaper than the States? Don't have the bell curve so you don't need to compete with other kiasu people? Because the uni is overrated so an employer will choose you over a local uni grad?

[jonobebe]

(Original post by Vikitora)
Besides, can anyone tell me what the point of going t6o a British uni is if you've got a pretty good uni right in your own city? Because to me, spending that amount of money is pretty pointless.. as British unis are massively overrated, if your consideration is based on the amount of stuff you learn there. I mean, why don't you go USA? Much better unis and not that much more expensive for you, if you think about it.

Obviously I (and probably some others here) did research of unis across the whole world to compare, after much consideration then we decided to go uk. Everyone have their own reasons... And yes i did consider usa before...

[bpbp]

Studying at US universities is expensive compared to UK ones; the tuition and boarding fees are crazyy.

[LindaAlbert]

knogle, its a part of precise and clear-cut conversation

[yawnandshrug]

Does anyone study in Edinburgh? Will like to find out more about the cost of living there. Like how much does an average meal costs, etc.

Edinburgh? Interesting, I'll be there too. You can get by on about a hundred quid a week.

[Vikitora]

Sorry, but you really learn barely anything.. I considered going to a UK university, but the education you receive for the money you spend is just ridiculously little. And additionally, the UK is amongst the most expensive unis in europe. Why don't you go to a different country instead, if it has got to be europe? I know you guys have probably all got this bubble over your head in which you glorify the UK. And I do love the UK, but as it is the politics, the social conditions, such things, are deteriorating..

[Narev]

(Original post by Vikitora)
Sorry, but you really learn barely anything.. I considered going to a UK university, but the education you receive for the money you spend is just ridiculously little. And additionally, the UK is amongst the most expensive unis in europe. Why don't you go to a different country instead, if it has got to be europe? I know you guys have probably all got this bubble over your head in which you glorify the UK. And I do love the UK, but as it is the politics, the social conditions, such things, are deteriorating..

Well, if you've read the forum posts, none of us are studying courses like Surf Science or David Beckham studies, so we learn a bit more than nothing.

It's quite true that the UK is amongst the most expensive unis in Europe, but you get to network with lots of people here, who will probably be quite influential in later years. Of course, that's limited to the top few universities ,which I honestly doubt you are looking at.

True, but the UK is probably one country where there is still relatively large freedom of speech. For example, trolls can say what they want with little repercussions. Same for people who don't try to understand another person's point of view, but immediately assume the worst.

[theil]

(Original post by Vikitora)
Sorry, but you really learn barely anything.. I considered going to a UK university, but the education you receive for the money you spend is just ridiculously little. And additionally, the UK is amongst the most expensive unis in europe. Why don't you go to a different country instead, if it has got to be europe? I know you guys have probably all got this bubble over your head in which you glorify the UK. And I do love the UK, but as it is the politics, the social conditions, such things, are deteriorating..

1) How do you define education? According to dictionary.com

"education: the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life."

Let me break it down for you.

i) Accumulation of factual knowledge.
I fail to see how one could spend 3 years and not learn any factual knowledge. I believe it is up to the individual to make full use of the resources available (contact hours, discussion groups, assignments, the exchange of ideas etc) to efficiently learn and be accustomed to the subject undertook. Failure to acquire factual knowledge would be failure of the individual as one should take ownership of his/her learning. You may then counter argue that UK Universities do not provide the necessary academic structure to support this. However without actually drilling down to specifics like course content and relevancy of individual courses it would just be a generalizing without any data to back it up. That is why course content is structured differently in Universities with different contact hours/method of teaching so the student can best choose for himself which would suit him most. If one does not learn anything, I have to conclude it is the individual.

ii) Critical thinking and interpersonal skills.
It is fairly apparent from your sweeping indictment that wherever you have studied did nothing to hone those skills. Back to my previous point, it may very well be the individual's lack of trying and has nothing to do with the institution.

2) I have to agree that education in UK is nominally expensive. However each individual's utility derived from per unit of cost spent would be intrinsic to each individual and intangible to measure.

3) Social conditions and blabla. Ok I am bored already and shall not waste anymore time lol.

[Vikitora]

For your information, I was looking at Oxford, Durham and Edinburgh. My marks currently are at 1.1, which means nine As and one B and for Oxbridge you only need 1.5^-^, that is: the equivalent of two As and two Bs.

the way you argue ("it's down to the individual") contradicts the actual point you're trying to make. Because if you think about it, you come to realise that you may learn as much as you like, wherever you are, thus the so adored British education is relativized..

and as it is, the British institutionalised learning at least sets more limits than many of their european counterparts. If you look at Germany, you can actually pursue double degrees or study as much and as long as you like, as well as studying as interdisciplinary as you like and visiting loads of other lectures, learning languages (for free and for fun), etc. And if you think about it, you realise that all these league tables are a load of garbage because they, funnily enough, only consider English publications, etc. Heidelberg has got 66 noble laureats, but only is on position (depends on which ranking) 53rd-73rd I think. Explain that!

[theil]

(Original post by Vikitora)
For your information, I was looking at Oxford, Durham and Edinburgh. My marks currently are at 1.1, which means nine As and one B and for Oxbridge you only need 1.5^-^, that is: the equivalent of two As and two Bs.

the way you argue ("it's down to the individual") contradicts the actual point you're trying to make. Because if you think about it, you come to realise that you may learn as much as you like, wherever you are, thus the so adored British education is relativized..

and as it is, the British institutionalised learning at least sets more limits than many of their european counterparts. If you look at Germany, you can actually pursue double degrees or study as much and as long as you like, as well as studying as interdisciplinary as you like and visiting loads of other lectures, learning languages (for free and for fun), etc. And if you think about it, you realise that all these league tables are a load of garbage because they, funnily enough, only consider English publications, etc. Heidelberg has got 66 noble laureats, but only is on position (depends on which ranking) 53rd-73rd I think. Explain that!

Haha I fail how to see it is "up to the individual" to take ownership of his learning is a contradiction. I did not claim the British education system is the best in the world I merely stated if you cannot learn anything it is the individual and not the school. It validates point 2 which I made saying there are other intrinsic factors unique to the individual which he/she will consider before heading to UK.

And what has league tables got to do with anything? It is fairly obvious different league tables weigh different factors and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I'm glad you are happy with wherever you are studying and think the UK education system is trash and if someone needs input on the merits of a UK vs Euro education your input would be more than welcomed but it is just plain rude to hijack a thread and insinuate that people are making bad decisions and choices.

Let's close this topic and get back to talking cock. Cheers!

[Vikitora]

Oh come on!

Freedom of speech, if you will.

Additionally: a forum is there to exchange thoughts and to inform each other of knowledge one may call her or his own and actually, it is only kind to inform people of the fact that they are paying thousands more for a ****tier education than they might receive elsewhere.

Of course the individual will consider factors. It just is a solid fact that certain information may not be acquired through research, but rather through o-tones.

League tables are important in this discussion because not everybody in Singapore is aware of their fallability and not everyone actually does take them with the "pinch of salt" you mention.

[Narev]

Ok, I suspect both sides have valid points, but I believe the main sticking issue is how Vikitora presented it - more of a: "in your face" that a UK university education isn't as desirable.

I'm unsure if you're a troll - since looking at your other posts seem to give the impression that you:

a) Want more contact hours in a University
b) Like your time in Germany because it's inter-disciplinary

That's fine. Maybe for the UK universities you (Vikitora) were looking at - they have very few contact hours, and not as flexible for Geography degrees. I can't comment, I'm not a geographer myself.

But that's no call to tar ALL UK universities with the same brush regarding contact hours and inter-disciplinary work, and I think that's what irks most people who read your post. That's because this isn't a geography forum, and I think most of us here aren't geographers.

That being said - here are some of my comments on contact hours.

Do you honestly go to all your contact hours? No scratch that, do all the students go to them? I suspect not. But even if so, what you cover at University is way more in-depth to be covered in the contact hours given - you'll have to do a lot of self-study and individual learning. I suspect that's why contact hours for certain courses are low. Of course, for the science disciplines, there are more contact hours. You forgot to mention that when talking about contact hours - and kind of lumped them together with humanities.

And perhaps one general comment / observation.

I'm studying in a UK university now. My course has a lot of contact hours. But most of the students I see don't turn up to ALL of them. There's opportunities to ask for help during term-time. It's not taken. My course is flexible - in some sense if I want to to take a history or politics module, I can do so. If I want to take a physics or a computer science module, I can do so as well, so long it doesn't take up more than 25% of my course-load.

I will have to add that this is something a student would need to actively take. It's not something like the US liberal arts system where everyone knows that they can take any module they want, with the pre-requisites. But someone who does not suffer from the No U-turn syndrome could easily study other modules if they want.

Even if they want to do more, you can walk into any lectures in my University. Perhaps bar medical ones.

My course covers second year modules at other universities in first year, and some third year / master level modules at other university in second / third year.

So yes, I disagree with all your points. Some universities may fit what you are describing, but not ALL UK universities.

*And just to ask, your education in Germany, is this the same for ALL German universities? Or for just the one you are studying at? Because if it is just the one you are studying at, then you honestly..have no leg to stand on.

[Vikitora]

It is for all German universities.. and I do not study geography, but history and German (at the moment). and double degrees are possible at each uni, provided the second subject is "zulassungsfrei", which means as much as that all you need for the course is a pass in your Abitur, that is a D average. That is not the case because the university is useless, but because there are certain subjects here which are so unpopular that there are more places available than required. And there are such subjects at every university, also Berlin.

Additionally, it is funny that all students here have got at least 20-30 contact hours a week and have still got to spend an average of five hours a day on private study.

[Narev]

How are the contact hours like for supervisions / tutorials? Or rather, how are they like in Germany? I'm actually quite curious to know the difference.

In fact, what's the breakdown between lectures and supervisions/tutorials?

At the University I'm at, I tend not to turn up to supervisions and self study, because a lot of the students ask basic questions in supervisions / first few questions of any tutorial sheets, and the supervisor caters to them instead. Which I admit is possibly one negative point about Universities in the UK - you want to ensure everyone understands, even if some people ought to self-study first.

I'm not sure whether it's like this in Germany. Because yes, I do have 20ish contact hours, and I also self-study, due to the above reason.

Doing double degrees is a strength of the German education system (and US, SG, say), but even if UK universities don't have double degrees, they do have strengths in other areas.

[hubble]

Am thinking of sending some of my stuff over to UK by way of sea freight. Any recommendations for reliable and cheap service?

[jonobebe]

(Original post by hubble)
Am thinking of sending some of my stuff over to UK by way of sea freight. Any recommendations for reliable and cheap service?

I only manage to find out the cheapest airmail package cost ~sgd$200 and a b|+ch 71 working days to reach. That's almost 4 months!!! When my coldwear reach me, the climate would have turned warmer and my powder would have harden! How can i survive 4 months without my lovely Za!!!!!

Anyway, keep me posted when u found out something, i will do the same too!~

[Vikitora]

Well, there are different kinds of educational "events" you can go to. But they are not all compulsory. Most of the time you only need to sit the exam and pass. But in many cases you NEED to attend to scrape a pass. I think we've got a different concept here..

There are lectures, which are "lessons" following the (in my opinion stupid) method of frontal education. There is a professor standing in the middle of an auditorium, filled with (at some German unis, such as the LMU) up to 500 students, and talking about things, whilst YOUR job is to sit and listen and take notes.. they often conclude in exams.

The proseminars are mainly for first years because you learn about the methodology and such like of your course. They end with an essay and a presentation.

Then there are seminars, which serve the purpose to go "deeper" into a "special topic" in groups of 10-20 students. And here you actually learn something new. They conclude in you writing an essay and holding a presentation.

Additionally, there are "project seminars" in which you do research of your own into a topic you may choose out of a selection.

Sadly, I don't seem to be able to find an English course overview. Otherwise I'd copy you a link.

And as for the fact that your supervisions seem to be geared more towards making everyone understand than anything else: it probably is that way because each university student in the UK spends a lot of money on her/his education. If the course were so hard that the student would not cope anymore (as very often is the case here! In fact that even is the strategy of the unis here: they want to make sure that their students really want to do what they are doing and don't just study their subject because they follow a whim or because they want the academic prestige. Which is why they are "sieved out" by overly harsh exams, courses, projects in the first few semesters. So yes, many German students fail.), the student would have to stop studying and thus the uni would lose money.
I found it extremely weird that all international applicants at the uni of edinburgh received an offer - well all of them would have paid the largest sum for their education.... maybe that is not the explanation for that phenomena, correct me if I'm wrong. =)

And contact hours vary from "event" to "event".. each "event" leads to a certain number of "credit points" (either 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 or 9 for my course). Most of the time one "event" takes up 2-4 hours a week, and apart from some "events" which are compulsory, you may pick the others freely. The only criteria you need to fulfill is that you need to have filled 180 credit points at the end of your education, according to plan three years, but many students don't manage to meet this set time limit. A good friend of mine added another year because he was interested in too much to be able to cover everything within the time an average student is allocated.

[fellowjoe]

Somehow i have the impression that the British education system is the same as ours - emphasising on rote learning and being exam smart.

And because of that, excessively high grade inflation is a norm in the UK now. Like A* was only recently introduced and almost all top uni are asking for straight A*.

Something is really wrong.