The Student Room Group

Why are immigration levels so high when unemployment is on the increase?

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Original post by spiral87
1. Charity begins at home. First and foremost, we should look after our own.

2. Advertising a job in McDonalds and labelling it something exotic like 'Crew Member' doesn't give you the right to be snobby about who you employ.


This I do agree with! Well in my son.
Surely the effect of immigration on unemployment is temporary anyway? In the long term immigrants will create jobs just like the native population. That's not to say I don't want lower immigration, I'd rather we didn't let our population get too much higher in such limited space.
Reply 22
Original post by kombu
i am not sure why british people are no longer wanting to become doctors and nurses. maybe it is all of this competition from cheap foreign labour that demotivates?


I think that's what it is. Then again, doctors aren't underpaid, they're overpaid...
Original post by kombu
both actually. the immigrants coming here are essentially for the most part poor, low/medium skilled labour capital who work in minimum wage/low paid jobs.

their contributions simply do not cover the costs of sustaining them and their families on the welfare state -- housing, benefits, NHS, education etc.

and thats just directly. the indirect consequence of mass immigration is that it squeezes the job market and puts burdens on the system for everybody.


I understand that but I do think there's a different work mentality. Some (not all) British workers can be quite lazy when it comes to seeking employment.
Reply 24
Original post by J-Robinson
Just because the jobs were given to 'Non-UK born' people doesn't mean anyone is less or more likely to get a job.


It means out of all the jobs that became available during that period, more were given to non-UK born people proportionally. For an equal opportunities country, that's poor form.

Original post by J-Robinson
How does this relate to immigration in terms of fixing your apparent 'problem'?


That we've kind of reverted to an 'Every man for himself. You're on your own, son' stance. i.e. "Our UK unemployed are not clever/skilled enough, let's bring in people who are rather than trying to fix the problem".

Original post by J-Robinson
Are you serious? Make people work for their benefits for free, that a lot of them are on because of the governments cuts? Or you've been let go because the company you work for has gone into administration? Some people rely on benefits.


I'm proposing that the 'Don't want to work' benefits scroungers work low skilled jobs part time for their benefits yes, rather than just giving them to foreigners at full pay. Once they've got a taste for it and the prospect of earning a full wage in that particular area, perhaps they'll stick with it.

In the meantime, get the rest of the unemployed educated enough for the jobs that are available. If George Osborne can create 1.2 million jobs in two years then at that rate, we'd only have 100,000 unemployed people left in the country within 4 years, but if net migration is increasing the population by 500,000 or 600,000 a year, our problem is not going to get better in the short term. Plus giving jobs to the unemployed means they're going to spend money and spending money helps the economy. At the moment, we're giving them money.

Original post by J-Robinson
This point just doesn't make sense.


It does, because increase in population seems to be considered a good thing. It's not.
Reply 25
Original post by spiral87
We do seem to have a problem where very few British natives want to be nurses/doctors.


Are you being serious? There was even a scare that there wouldn't be enough jobs for FY doctors. The only reason there is enough job is because of all the ailing immigrants. I remember when I started sixth form our tutor asked those who wanted to do medicine to raise their hands, and, predictably, 9/10 people did so. Is your reasoning, 'there are a lot of Indian doctors in the UK, so the British don't want to become doctors'; if not, explain how you came to that conclusion.
Reply 26
Original post by spiral87
Of course as a capitalist society, companies are allowed free rein and can employ who they want. If employing a migrant worker will allow them to earn more than if they employ a British native, they will do it. Don't you think that's a sad situation?

Unemployment in 2001 was 1.5 million in 2001 and is now 2.51 million. Conversely, there are 3.7 million more people here in the UK. George Osbourne boasted a few days ago about how the Tory government have created 1.2 million jobs since early-2010. Where have they all gone??? Who's got them?


I don't think i'd use the word sad to describe it but in an ideal world then obviously we would have a lovely productive labour force which can compete for jobs and win but too many people live in a bubble or don't have the required skill-set to stand above the crowd (many seem to think that the world owes them a job and even worse some on TSR think that a part time job is "below them"), there is also an element of perception however as eastern Europeans are generally perceived as hard working for example whilst as i have alluded to some Britain;s are perceived as lazy or arrogant.

The 1.2 million figure is great but that is not net so probably around half that is the net total, as for the 1 million increase the majority is down to the recession and this still indicates that around 70% of immigrants are working compared to around half of Britain's (children, unemployed, disabled/elderly).

Original post by kombu
i think if there are job shortages in doctors and nurses then the best thing to do would be to specifically import them and not rely on the open door mass immigration policy which saturates the job market.

i am not sure why british people are no longer wanting to become doctors and nurses. maybe it is all of this competition from cheap foreign labour that demotivates?

mass immigration is like a vicious circle in that respect: mass immigration is the solution to the problem of mass immigration.


Certainly not in such a high skilled profession, i suspect it is much more down to having to train for many years and working large amounts of hours in a high stress environment (in short - working conditions). I also think the private sector has expanded over the past decade or so which is employing people probably at a higher wage.
Original post by spiral87
If our problem is lack of education, then we're just trying to wallpaper over cracks in the wall. Let's make education more freely available to people who's employment status is suffering for it. Once you've left school, if you make a wrong choice and want to return to education to boost your employability, you often find you can't afford it.


I just thought I offer some information regarding this point you have made. Starting from April 2014 the government is launching a new initiative called 24+ Advanced Learning Loans which is aimed at 24+ year old learners. It will loan students the money to study level 3 such as A levels, BTECS and apprenticeships under the same repayment arrangements currently offered to undergraduates. Further more, in a student studies an Access course then upon entering university the fees for the Access course will be waived.

I left school with only 2 GCSEs and last year I studied a full time GCSE program at my local college which has completely transformed my opportunities for the future; I didn't have to pay anything for this. I will also be taking advantage of the Advanced Learning Loan next year when I study my AS levels, and let me tell you it's taken quite a worry off my mind. My only concern now is that Colleges will see this as an opportunity to raise their level 3 course fees. However, it's very encouraging that the government has finally realised that some students come to education later than others and they are implementing schemes to address this.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 28
Unemployment has actually remained relatively low and is forecast to fall. However, productivity has fallen as well. It's a mystery to the Bank of England.
Reply 29
Original post by 21stcenturyphantom
x


That sounds like a wonderful programme. I wish they'd reduce the age restriction though.
Original post by Spaz Man
Unemployment has actually remained relatively low and is forecast to fall. However, productivity has fallen as well. It's a mystery to the Bank of England.


We have a retail heavy economy. Mystery solved.
Original post by spiral87
That sounds like a wonderful programme. I wish they'd reduce the age restriction though.


Yes sadly there seems to be a gap in funding. Specifically, I know that my college has funding for 16-19 year old's and they also have bursaries available, but now with the 24+ALL there is a gap from between 19-24 years of age where there isn't any funding available. I don't know if this is the same for other colleges and sixth forms but if so it does kind of leave one in a bad place if they were wishing to pursue education.
Original post by The Mad Dog
I''m not sure how 21% of jobs going to Non-UK Born residents equates to them being anywhere near twice as likely to get a job.


It could be that the percentage of the population of immigrants compared to those born here could make it that way, IMO its why pure stats are bad as they can be manipulated.

I personally have no problems with immigrants just the attitudes they often have and how we are expected to act, I keep hearing in local paper or from locals about the crimes Polish in particular do(and used to have a neighbour who claimed benefits under 5 British names and worked 3 jobs and got housibe benefit) and often in street women especially get abuse from the Polish yet anything bad we say against them is seen as racist.
Original post by 21stcenturyphantom
I just thought I offer some information regarding this point you have made. Starting from April 2014 the government is launching a new initiative called 24+ Advanced Learning Loans which is aimed at 24+ year old learners. It will loan students the money to study level 3 such as A levels, BTECS and apprenticeships under the same repayment arrangements currently offered to undergraduates. Further more, in a student studies an Access course then upon entering university the fees for the Access course will be waived.

I left school with only 2 GCSEs and last year I studied a full time GCSE program at my local college which has completely transformed my opportunities for the future; I didn't have to pay anything for this. I will also be taking advantage of the Advanced Learning Loan next year when I study my AS levels, and let me tell you it's taken quite a worry off my mind. My only concern now is that Colleges will see this as an opportunity to raise their level 3 course fees. However, it's very encouraging that the government has finally realised that some students come to education later than others and they are implementing schemes to address this.


Still bad though as if you have reached 24 with not many prospects in life how on earth can they afford to pay back a year of extra loans when its much easier for a 18 year old.

Also when I asked a few years ago I was told that fees are waived for anyone on low income anyway so its worse for these people who it used to be free.

It will end up like in Scotland where part time courses used to be free but now you have to fund yourself.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 34
Original post by spiral87
I think that's what it is. Then again, doctors aren't underpaid, they're overpaid...


actually, factually UK docs are paid less than doctors in other countries...
Original post by drbluebox
Still bad though as if you have reached 24 with not many prospects in life how on earth can they afford to pay back a year of extra loans when its much easier for a 18 year old.


I don't understand your sentence, what do you mean? When what's easier for an 18 year old?

Just because I am older does not mean I am any less viable as a student or that I will not achieve the goals I want to achieve simply because I didn't go to university straight from school. I would imagine when I have graduated from university and I have a successful job I will of course pay back the 24+ Loan plus undergraduate fees back together in one payment, under the financial arrangement already in place.

Original post by drbluebox
Also when I asked a few years ago I was told that fees are waived for anyone on low income anyway so its worse for these people who it used to be free.


As far as I am aware this is not true. The government will subsidise certain Mathematics and English courses. There is financial assistance available in the form of the Discretionary Learner Support Fund which replaced Educational Maintenance Allowance and the Adult Learning Grant two years ago.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 36
Original post by spiral87
Yes, this is based on the 2011 census results coming out.

13% of the population of the UK is now regarded as 'Non-UK born'. During the period of June 2011 and June 2012, 21% of the jobs were given to 'Non-UK born' residents, meaning you're not far off twice as likely to get a job in the UK if you weren't born here.

We're massively compounding our problems by not only adding to our unemployed population, but also giving jobs away to the detriment of people who are looking for work and can't find it.

If our problem is lack of education, then we're just trying to wallpaper over cracks in the wall. Let's make education more freely available to people who's employment status is suffering for it. Once you've left school, if you make a wrong choice and want to return to education to boost your employability, you often find you can't afford it.

If our problem is that people are comfortable enough on benefits and don't need/want to work, then take them away/make them work for their benefits by making them do the jobs we don't want to do, like cleaning loos and wiping old people's bottoms.

If our problem is that our native population is ageing and we need an influx of young foreigners to pay for healthcare for the elderly through taxation, then...well, what do you think will happen when the immigrants get old? A net population decrease for not only our country, but our entire species would be rather welcome wouldn't it?

Inb4 'omg they takin all our jobs!!!1'


our entire species would be rather welcome wouldn't it


Are you one of those British born lizard people I've been hearing about?
Reply 37
Original post by 21stcenturyphantom
Yes sadly there seems to be a gap in funding. Specifically, I know that my college has funding for 16-19 year old's and they also have bursaries available, but now with the 24+ALL there is a gap from between 19-24 years of age where there isn't any funding available. I don't know if this is the same for other colleges and sixth forms but if so it does kind of leave one in a bad place if they were wishing to pursue education.


The simple way to get around the gap is actually to be on JSA within six weeks of your course starting because your then eligible for the fees to be waived (its what i did).
Reply 38
Britain is no longer white. yay.
Reply 39
Original post by Rakas21



Certainly not in such a high skilled profession, i suspect it is much more down to having to train for many years and working large amounts of hours in a high stress environment (in short - working conditions). I also think the private sector has expanded over the past decade or so which is employing people probably at a higher wage.



its just a simple fact of economics that surplus of anything -- labour or goods -- drives down costs. wages or price.

also, what is the point of a british person working for so many years to get the correct qualifications when they know they will just be undercut by a cheap foreign import?

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