Another US school shooting :(
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I can't even imagine what those involved are going through, especially the parents of the children who were killed 
This is really sad and it is yet another indicator of why restricting gun control doesn't work. People always blame these shootings on 'lax gun laws' and yet the most shootings always occur in states with the strictest gun control. Restricting gun control is not the answer. It will simply lead to guns being in the hands of those who should not have them. Besides, people would just use knives instead.
The ability to own a firearm is a right.
The ability to own a firearm is a right.
Original post by Sephiroth
How come we don't have mass shootings every week in the UK then? Or every 5 weeks if you want to take population into account.
I don't think you realise how many guns are in circulation over there
Original post by AgentSushi
Why wouldn't it? How many school shootings do we have in the UK, I can't think of any examples off the top of my head and this must be down to our strict gun laws to a certain degree.
Is due to the sheer amount of guns in circulation.
Original post by ESPORTIVA
Is due to the sheer amount of guns in circulation.
Exactly, if guns are legal there are going to be more in circulation if they are illegal there will be less. Its quite simple.
Original post by officelinebacker
It is impossible to compare gun crime between the UK and USA. Saying that a direct comparison would be a mass shooting in the UK every 5 weeks is downright stupid for the simple reason that gun ownership is very rare over here.
Also, if you honestly believe that there is no gun crime in the UK then you're deluded. There is plenty of gun crime and illegal gun ownership isn't at all uncommon, obviously the amount of gun crime is nowhere near the level in the US but that is because only the tiniest fraction of the population over here have access to a firearm.
Why, because every now and then you get a madman with a gun?
Should we make cars illegal because there are thousands of people killed each year due to people driving dangerously?
How about swimming? In 2004 almost 400,000 people drowned worldwide, compare that to the number of homicides by firearms, less than 150,000 worldwide in the same year.
There is nothing wrong with gun ownership, there is no reason for gun ownership to be made illegal, yes there should be slightly tighter control over who can buy a gun, but do you honestly think that making guns illegal stops gun crime?
Also, it would be impossible to scrap the US gun laws. Any candidate that wanted to do so would never be elected president, any president that chose to try and make the change wouldn't push it through congress, and even if by some miracle the laws did get scrapped then how would guns be removed from the population?
Also, if you honestly believe that there is no gun crime in the UK then you're deluded. There is plenty of gun crime and illegal gun ownership isn't at all uncommon, obviously the amount of gun crime is nowhere near the level in the US but that is because only the tiniest fraction of the population over here have access to a firearm.
Why, because every now and then you get a madman with a gun?
Should we make cars illegal because there are thousands of people killed each year due to people driving dangerously?
How about swimming? In 2004 almost 400,000 people drowned worldwide, compare that to the number of homicides by firearms, less than 150,000 worldwide in the same year.
There is nothing wrong with gun ownership, there is no reason for gun ownership to be made illegal, yes there should be slightly tighter control over who can buy a gun, but do you honestly think that making guns illegal stops gun crime?
Also, it would be impossible to scrap the US gun laws. Any candidate that wanted to do so would never be elected president, any president that chose to try and make the change wouldn't push it through congress, and even if by some miracle the laws did get scrapped then how would guns be removed from the population?
The events you described are either accidental death or manslaughter. Guns make it easier for people to murder, and tightening those rules will obviously prevent gun crimes
| Country | % of homicides by firearm | Number of homicides by firearm | Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop | Rank by rate of ownership | Average firearms per 100 people ▾ | Average total all civilian firearms |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| SOURCES: UNODC & Small arms survey | ||||||
| United States | 60 | 9,146 | 2.97 | 1 | 88.8 | 270,000,000 |
| England and Wales | 6.6 | 41 | 0.07 | 88 | 6.2 | 3,400,000 |
See the difference for yourself.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by JamalAhmed
The events you described are either accidental death or manslaughter. Guns make it easier for people to murder, and tightening those rules will obviously prevent gun crimes
See the difference for yourself.
| Country | % of homicides by firearm | Number of homicides by firearm | Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop | Rank by rate of ownership | Average firearms per 100 people ▾ | Average total all civilian firearms |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| SOURCES: UNODC & Small arms survey | ||||||
| United States | 60 | 9,146 | 2.97 | 1 | 88.8 | 270,000,000 |
| England and Wales | 6.6 | 41 | 0.07 | 88 | 6.2 | 3,400,000 |
See the difference for yourself.
Or put guns solely in the hands of outlaws. Tighter gun control is not the answer. If the school hadn't been a no-gun zone then it is possible many lives could have been saved if someone else had had a firearm to stop the shooter.
Dear goodness.
It also appears that he's a father of a pupil at the school - I do hope that his child is not amongst the dead, or worse yet, this body that's just been found....
It also appears that he's a father of a pupil at the school - I do hope that his child is not amongst the dead, or worse yet, this body that's just been found....
Original post by Miracle Day
And again, nothing will be done because:
>"Muh freeedumsssss!!!"
>"But muh constitution!!!!"
>"Muh freeedumsssss!!!"
>"But muh constitution!!!!"
What good would outlawing guns do (except restrict yet more freedoms)? It would leave firearms in the hands of outlaws exclusively.
This school was a no-gun zone anyways. Many lives could have been saved if someone other than the gunman had had a firearm to stop him.
Original post by DYKWIA
Or put guns solely in the hands of outlaws. Tighter gun control is not the answer. If the school hadn't been a no-gun zone then it is possible many lives could have been saved if someone else had had a firearm to stop the shooter.
Do you have any statistics suggesting this may actually save lives?
Original post by DYKWIA
What good would outlawing guns do (except restrict yet more freedoms)? It would leave firearms in the hands of outlaws exclusively.
This school was a no-gun zone anyways. Many lives could have been saved if someone other than the gunman had had a firearm to stop him.
This school was a no-gun zone anyways. Many lives could have been saved if someone other than the gunman had had a firearm to stop him.
Oh God.. he's back
Original post by Dobermory
Yeah, we all know how Norway's strict gun laws prevented the slaughter of 69 people ... oh wait.
Huh. Norway is ranked 11th in the world in terms of rate of ownership suggesting their gun laws aren't that strict.
Original post by DYKWIA
What good would outlawing guns do (except restrict yet more freedoms)? It would leave firearms in the hands of outlaws exclusively.
This school was a no-gun zone anyways. Many lives could have been saved if someone other than the gunman had had a firearm to stop him.
This school was a no-gun zone anyways. Many lives could have been saved if someone other than the gunman had had a firearm to stop him.
But consider an analogous situation in Britian:
Let's hypothetically say that the school was a no-gun zone anyway. In the case of Britain, it can be reasonably said that the gunman would not have had a gun in the first place. What are the chances that the gunman had obtained the guns legally (because the news suggests that the guns weren't heavy artillery which is illegal to civilians)...
Original post by DYKWIA
What good would outlawing guns do (except restrict yet more freedoms)? It would leave firearms in the hands of outlaws exclusively.
This school was a no-gun zone anyways. Many lives could have been saved if someone other than the gunman had had a firearm to stop him.
This school was a no-gun zone anyways. Many lives could have been saved if someone other than the gunman had had a firearm to stop him.
I don't even know were to start with this comment, your logic is completely flawed.
Out of intrest are you American?
It's interesting how different this discussion is from the ones on US sites I've seen. They've focused on the individual crazy people doing it, with barely a mention as to the issue with gun laws. There's a reason almost all incidents of this kind happen there.
Thoughts also with the young victims of a knife attack at a school in China earlier.
Thoughts also with the young victims of a knife attack at a school in China earlier.
Original post by JamalAhmed
I'm not so sure because possession of a gun is one of their fundamental rights. Colorado, Wisconsin, Minneapolis and the most recent Aurora shootings didn't create much controversy regarding gun laws in America. I don't think this will either.
The constitution can still be amended (it has happened many times before). It's just a case of nobody wanting to fix it... Or at least, not the required popularity for it to ever be contested.
I think it's a horrific waste of life that those kids had to die, and I think the cause was very obvious. I really don't know why these mass killings have gone on for so long - Why is it still not obvious that guns are the common tool used in these events? Yes, the person is responsible, and the gun the tool, but they're so common that you expect every other few people to be owning one.
It really bugs me that they never bother to actually look into the problem, just to pass it off. Is there really much of a modern need for firearms?
Will a change in the law stop the problem outright? Absolutely not, it should not be expected that it would. Would it seriously help to curb the problem? Well yes, it probably would.
There are plenty of countries where there are legally owned firearms and far fewer homicides with them - They either need to fix the people, or fix the firearms. When will they actually recognise the problem and control it?
Original post by AgentSushi
Exactly, if guns are legal there are going to be more in circulation if they are illegal there will be less. Its quite simple.
what i meant was is that it is TOO LATE for any sort of ban or prohibition to make any difference.
That is shocking information.
Original post by Miracle Day
Oh God.. he's back
Way to refute a point...
Original post by Sovr'gnChancellor£
But consider an analogous situation in Britian:
Let's hypothetically say that the school was a no-gun zone anyway. In the case of Britain, it can be reasonably said that the gunman would not have had a gun in the first place. What are the chances that the gunman had obtained the guns legally (because the news suggests that the guns weren't heavy artillery which is illegal to civilians)...
Let's hypothetically say that the school was a no-gun zone anyway. In the case of Britain, it can be reasonably said that the gunman would not have had a gun in the first place. What are the chances that the gunman had obtained the guns legally (because the news suggests that the guns weren't heavy artillery which is illegal to civilians)...
That's what I'm saying, Connecticut have gun-free zones. The fact is that guns are legal and if you restrict gun laws then it makes things worse. The people who obey these laws are the people who could be trusted with a gun. Shooters, like this guy, would not obey the laws. The shooter didn't think - 'I won't attack that school, because it's a no gun zone' - he attacked it precisely because it was a no gun zone.
Original post by AgentSushi
I don't even know were to start with this comment, your logic is completely flawed.
Strict gun laws are dumb. It will just leave weapons in the hands of those who shouldn't have them and leave everyone else defenseless.
The answer is clearly to get more help for these individuals and spot them earlier.
Out of intrest are you American?
Yes.
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