The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

Original post by MatureStudent36
I don't, as that would likely result in some English Nationalists stirring up division and creating unnecessary costs whilst ensuring that they can try and claim a cushy deal at taxpayers expense for personal gain.


My point was semi in jest; but it would be interesting to see how the other nations cope with England calling their respective bluffs. England needs its own Parliament pronto.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Was it at that point you realised that the culture is not so different than Coventry? The excitement of living somewhere differently could've been matched by living in Manchester, Hull, Cardiff, Belfast or Exeter.

Have you realise that pro seperation supporters have a rather insular outlook on life as they generally tend to be not well travelled and easily led by others?


Dundee, which is just across the Tay from here, is essentially a Scottish Coventry; it reminds me of home so much that I try and head over once a week to get away from this weird mix of spoilt Americans and Brits.

Scotland has some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen, and as cities go Edinburgh and Glasgow are just as so. Someone I used to know from just outside Glasgow likened its history and voting tendencies a lot to Birmingham (an industrial centre that will elect a dog wearing a red rosette), and I realised that he was right. When you take Longshanks and Wallace out of the equation, there really isn't much difference between the countries.

The problem is, too many Scots (but not all of them, pedants amongst you) can't bring themselves to do it. Definitely a trait more common on the East coast than the West, mind.
Original post by Midlander
My point was semi in jest; but it would be interesting to see how the other nations cope with England calling their respective bluffs. England needs its own Parliament pronto.


I think it's fare to Say. Scotland will get by. Wales and Northern Ireland will go to the wall, England as an entity will likely be better off than it is now due to the tax receipts generated in London and the South East being spread over a smaller area. Not to mention the Fracking.

I try not to look at this way. I consider the UK as a patch work of cultures not Just English, Scottish, Welsh and Ulster. After all what is an Englishman? If you can say a Scouser and a Devonian are the same, It's difficult to say a Glaswegian and Geordie are poles apart as the Nationalists like to say
When we went to Scotland, there were loads of new schools etc but everything was funded with EU money.
Original post by MatureStudent36
I think it's fare to Say. Scotland will get by. Wales and Northern Ireland will go to the wall, England as an entity will likely be better off than it is now due to the tax receipts generated in London and the South East being spread over a smaller area. Not to mention the Fracking.

I try not to look at this way. I consider the UK as a patch work of cultures not Just English, Scottish, Welsh and Ulster. After all what is an Englishman? If you can say a Scouser and a Devonian are the same, It's difficult to say a Glaswegian and Geordie are poles apart as the Nationalists like to say


Wales was annexed by England some time back so that would have to be addressed first. You're right though-a Glaswegian and a Brummie would have more in common than either with a Londoner.
Original post by MatureStudent36

Have you realise that pro seperation supporters have a rather insular outlook on life as they generally tend to be not well travelled and easily led by others?

Oh great, here we go again. You carry on throwing boring mischaracterisations of your political opponents left, right and centre with nary an attempt to back up your claims. From which statistical dataset did you derive these latest gems?
Original post by Midlander
Wales was annexed by England some time back so that would have to be addressed first. You're right though-a Glaswegian and a Brummie would have more in common than either with a Londoner.

The acts annexing Wales to England were repealed in 1993:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Hen8/27/26/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Hen8/34-35/26/contents
It's going to happen anyway whether we like it or not (we the English, of course, will not get a say). There's nothing to stop the SNP repeatedly holding referenda until they're blue in the face. Although if they don't manage it in the year of the Commonwealth Games and the Ryder Cup both being held in Scotland then I'll be amazed.
Original post by Kaiser MacCleg
Sorry to have to use weasel words, but it depends.

It depends on the precise needs of the region for which independence is proposed and the nature of the state of which it is a part. I don't think I could give you a definitive answer when it comes to Scotland - I don't live there and never have. In the case of Wales, however, I am perfectly comfortable in saying that being a part of the union in its current form is less desirable than independence, in the long run. That is not to say that membership of any form of union is less desirable than independence, however. Many of the qualms I have about the position of Wales in the UK could conceivably be addressed with a transition from a unitary to a federal state. If a federal (or even confederal) UK were on the cards, it would be quite possible that I would vote for that over independence, depending on the precise terms of the arrangement.


Agreed, some kind of federal union is clearly what is called for, it would reconcile the need for more independence with the equally strong need for integration across the whole island.

I've always thought it sad, personally, that we couldn't be more reconciled with Ireland to have them in a "British Isles Federation" (except we wouldn't be able to call it the "British" Isles!) as our interests all really coincide. I think the Euro crisis and the limitations of the Irish govt in handling independence, due to their small size, lack of sufficient control and authority and lack of professionalism, have demonstrated that small states are often not able in the modern world to cope.

The alternative, entering the EU, without being part of a much larger state to help defend and manage your interests, is equally unattractive.

Diminution of the UK down to England + Wales will have the same negative impact on us, reducing our global bargaining power, the resources we have to call on and the specialisms we need to go forwards.
Original post by tjf8
It's going to happen anyway whether we like it or not (we the English, of course, will not get a say). There's nothing to stop the SNP repeatedly holding referenda until they're blue in the face. Although if they don't manage it in the year of the Commonwealth Games and the Ryder Cup both being held in Scotland then I'll be amazed.


Politically speaking, there will be a backlash if Salmond loses this vote, he would find it hard to justify repeating the referendum any time soon.


Wasn't sure on it myself so happy to be corrected.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Politically speaking, there will be a backlash if Salmond loses this vote, he would find it hard to justify repeating the referendum any time soon.


Just as Dave has refused to countenance an independent Scotland, Salmond has refused to discuss what will happen should he lose the defining moment of his political career.

The Scottish people will have resoundingly rejected his party's main objective; you'd surely think there'd be nowhere back for him. Equally, I wonder what Cameron would think of having the union break up under his tenure as the legacy he leaves.
Original post by Midlander
Just as Dave has refused to countenance an independent Scotland, Salmond has refused to discuss what will happen should he lose the defining moment of his political career.

The Scottish people will have resoundingly rejected his party's main objective; you'd surely think there'd be nowhere back for him. Equally, I wonder what Cameron would think of having the union break up under his tenure as the legacy he leaves.


Yes, well as he's already retired once in the past, I assume he can repeat the trick. :smile: I actually quite like watching him in action, sad political nerd that I am, I watch Scottish Parliament sometimes. He is quite funny and likeable, I can see why he does so well politically. I also think he's a huge con merchant, but then that's just me. :smile:
Original post by Kaiser MacCleg
Oh great, here we go again. You carry on throwing boring mischaracterisations of your political opponents left, right and centre with nary an attempt to back up your claims. From which statistical dataset did you derive these latest gems?


Mere personal observations.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Yes, well as he's already retired once in the past, I assume he can repeat the trick. :smile: I actually quite like watching him in action, sad political nerd that I am, I watch Scottish Parliament sometimes. He is quite funny and likeable, I can see why he does so well politically. I also think he's a huge con merchant, but then that's just me. :smile:


The SNP owes an awful lot of its current majority to him, that's for sure. A very shrewd politician who has forced Scottish Labour to go back to the drawing board.
Original post by Midlander
The SNP owes an awful lot of its current majority to him, that's for sure. A very shrewd politician who has forced Scottish Labour to go back to the drawing board.


Always a good thing to keep the Politicians on their toes. It reminds them who they work for. However I think post 2008 financial crash people will vote for anybody who tells them it will be OK. The French voted Hollande in. Hasn't worked out too well for them
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
Always a good thing to keep the Politicians on their toes. It reminds them who they work for. However I think post 2008 financial crash people will vote for anybody who tells them it will be OK. The French voted Hollande in. Hasn't worked out too well for them


At least as an elected head of state he makes efforts to improve the state of his country, rather than host banquets every day and call it 'hard work'.
Original post by Midlander
At least as an elected head of state he makes efforts to improve the state of his country, rather than host banquets every day and call it 'hard work'.


He's managed to scare off all of the people with money. i.e the people who create jobs.


I'm not going to get onto the banquets
Original post by tjf8
It's going to happen anyway whether we like it or not (we the English, of course, will not get a say). There's nothing to stop the SNP repeatedly holding referenda until they're blue in the face. Although if they don't manage it in the year of the Commonwealth Games and the Ryder Cup both being held in Scotland then I'll be amazed.

I tend to agree with Fullofsurprises - I can't see another referendum being called in the immediate future if this one returns a "no" vote. The SNP would risk ridicule, obvious comparisons to Quebec and an even more firm rebuttal second time around. Two, three decades down the line - possibly.

Original post by MatureStudent36
Mere personal observations.

Which are about as useful in justifying your claim as a reference to David Icke.

Anyone have any thoughts on the implications of the Catalonian referendum for Scotland? They're both due in 2014, though I'm not sure which will be conducted first. Has the Scottish media covered the process towards the Catalonian referendum at all?
Original post by MatureStudent36
He's managed to scare off all of the people with money. i.e the people who create jobs.


I'm not going to get onto the banquets


On a different thread I asked someone whether they'd rather the £200m currently spent on maintaining the Royals would be better off spent on the NHS. They never did get round to answering it...

Latest

Trending

Trending