The Student Room Group

Monk destroys Archimedies outline of calculus 2200 years ago

Forgive the title, the manuscript was written 2200 years ago. He apparently destroyed it 700 years ago while making a prey book.


Here's an article for more info:

http://spcefrk.deviantart.com/journal/Archimedes-Calculus-Erased-for-Prayers-233821435

Do you think we would be hundreds of years more advanced than we are now had the book not been destroyed?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Liamnut
Do you think we would be hundreds of years more advanced than we are now had this not happened?


No. Texts from long ago are merely of historical interest.
Reply 2
Original post by Mr M
No. Texts from long ago are merely of historical interest.


If Newton and Leibniz had access to some of his insights they may have been able to make a lot more progress than they actually did. Rather than spending time rediscovering stuff. Idk, it's hard to say.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 3
we know surprisingly little about ancient technology. the AntiKythera mechanism for instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

and the fabulous Peruvian Desert pictures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazca_Lines
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Liamnut
Do you think we would be hundreds of years more advanced than we are now had this not happened?


It's impossible to say because in order for discoveries to be useful, they need to be applied to solve problems. And therein is the issue:

Discoveries (especially in the ancient world) could be seen as directly challenging the orthodoxy and authority of the rulers of the time.

Variously, that has included both Kings and religions such as (but not limited to) Christianity.

And when challenged those rulers would set about either destroying the discoveries or outlawing them. As a result, discoveries and science would go unpublished simply through fear of the wrath of these leaders.

Some examples include:

The destruction of the libraries at Alexandria by the Roman Caesars and Pope's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria)
Bruno (burnt at the stake), Galileo (imprisoned and forced to recant his beliefs), Copernicus, Darwin etc. are some of the better known cases.

It's a good question and fun to ponder the "what if's" though. :smile:
Reply 5
Original post by uberteknik
It's impossible to say because in order for discoveries to be useful, they need to be applied to solve problems. And therein is the issue:

Discoveries (especially in the ancient world) could be seen as directly challenging the orthodoxy and authority of the rulers of the time.

Variously, that has included both Kings and religions such as (but not limited to) Christianity.

And when challenged those rulers would set about either destroying the discoveries or outlawing them. As a result, discoveries and science would go unpublished simply through fear of the wrath of these leaders.

Some examples include:

The destruction of the libraries at Alexandria by the Roman Caesars and Pope's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria)
Bruno (burnt at the stake), Galileo (imprisoned and forced to recant his beliefs), Copernicus, Darwin etc. are some of the better known cases.

It's a good question and fun to ponder the "what if's" though. :smile:
.

It is a shame.

A lot if scientific research was carried out by the church, as historically, they were the only ones who really had means of conducting research. It makes me wonder if other discoveries were overlooked simply because they went against the churches teachings.
Original post by Liamnut
.

It is a shame.

A lot if scientific research was carried out by the church, as historically, they were the only ones who really had means of conducting research. It makes me wonder if other discoveries were overlooked simply because they went against the churches teachings.


Indeed.

This is going off the maths topic somewhat but I'm sure the mod's will move the thread if necessary, but:

It still happens to this very day with controversial research. I don't make any claims that this should not be the case. Merely an observation with the below examples that it does happen (for mostly good reason although not always) from ethical, sociological and risk viewpoints.

GM crops,
Embryonic stem cell research,
Human cloning,
Some psychology research,
Biological and Chemical weapons research,
Race and intelligence.

Less easily defended (from my perspective at least) are the censoring by some major religions which reject certain science because it is against their faith:

Evolution rejected in preference to creationism and 'intelligent design'.
Geological and cosmological time scales,
Use of contraception etc.

are a few examples.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 7
Original post by uberteknik

Less easily defended (from my perspective at least) are the censoring by some major religions which reject certain science because it is against their faith:

Evolution rejected in preference to creationism and 'intelligent design'.
Geological and cosmological time scales,
Use of contraception etc.

are a few examples.


I am intrigued - your first list included things where research is actually being prevented or slowed down by religious/moral arguments

Why is that more easily defendable than your second list

In this second list we have 2 things which are simply some people choosing alternative theories to accept - they go against the majority and the overwhelming evidence but what harm do they cause

And, the use of contraceptives is down to personal decision making - even within the RC faith there are accepted forms of contraceptive so I am not sure what is undefendable there either
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by TenOfThem
I am intrigued - your first list included things where research is actually being prevented or slowed down by religious/moral arguments

Why is that more easily defendable than your second list

In this second list we have 2 things which are simply some people choosing alternative theories to accept - they go against the majority and the overwhelming evidence but what harm do they cause

And, the use of contraceptives is down to personal decision making - even within the RC faith there are accepted forms of contraceptive so I am not sure what is undefendable there either


Hi Ten, I did qualify it by stating 'from my perspective' and yes, they were deliberately excluded from the first list exactly because they are a matter of personal choice, often justified (but not exclusively) through the belief systems of some reigions.

It was not meant as an attack on religious doctrine but simply to illustrate by example where science and religion have often clashed. Which in the past manifested as outright heresy and censorship, whilst in the present (depending on your viewpoint) the direct rejection of evidence and observation in preference to faith. As I said, from my personal viewpoint.

The clash is amply demonstrated by this very discussion, where in the past, the ruling powers could silence debate by the force of rule or law and therefore slowed the pace of discovery and progress.
Reply 9
Original post by uberteknik
Hi Ten, I did qualify it by stating 'from my perspective' and yes, they were deliberately excluded from the first list exactly because they are a matter of personal choice, often justified (but not exclusively) through the belief systems of some reigions.

It was not meant as an attack on religious doctrine but simply to illustrate by example where science and religion have often clashed. Which in the past manifested as outright heresy and censorship, whilst in the present (depending on your viewpoint) the direct rejection of evidence and observation in preference to faith. As I said, from my personal viewpoint.

The clash is amply demonstrated by this very discussion, where in the past, the ruling powers could silence debate by the force of rule or law and therefore slowed the pace of discovery and progress.


Hi

I get that we are both expressing personal opinion and did not intend to offend :smile:
Original post by TenOfThem
Hi

I get that we are both expressing personal opinion and did not intend to offend :smile:
No need for apologies. I did not think you ever intended to offend in the first place and none taken. :smile:
Original post by Liamnut
Forgive the title, the manuscript was written 2200 years ago. He apparently destroyed it 700 years ago while making a prey book.


Here's an article for more info:

http://spcefrk.deviantart.com/journal/Archimedes-Calculus-Erased-for-Prayers-233821435

Do you think we would be hundreds of years more advanced than we are now had the book not been destroyed?


The Monk "destroyed" the book 700 years ago, so it was already around for over a thousand years without people making use of it. So if the book wasn't destroyed by the monk I don't think we would be hundreds of years more advanced.

If people actually read the book earlier and expanded on Archimedes' work, then we would be much more advanced.
Reply 12
Have you been watching vsauce by any chance?
Reply 13
Original post by Saliency
Have you been watching vsauce by any chance?


Mhm

Quick Reply

Latest