TSR Christian Apologetics Society

Magnum Opus

Random query, I know but if we consider an "Apologetic" to be one who "defends" the faith, what do we refer to one who "defends by attacking" other faiths?

The word you're looking for is "Polemicist"

Reply 784

JaredSteinmetz

I have spent quite some time looking for a forum as interesting as this, (or as interesting as this one has turned out) and I have found none. I am looking for a place where I can have help solidifying my arguments in the defense in Christianity. Any ideas?

Reply 785

ForeverIsMyName

15

JaredSteinmetz

I have spent quite some time looking for a forum as interesting as this, (or as interesting as this one has turned out) and I have found none. I am looking for a place where I can have help solidifying my arguments in the defense in Christianity. Any ideas?

I find if I want to know how to debate a position, practice arguing the opposite of what you believe until you feel comfortable enough in being able to argue both sides of the argument well. Not only will you sharpen your own beliefs, you will become more objective at the matter at hand as well. Oh, and never be afraid to plead ignorance - if you are out your depth or you don't know, you should admit it, because people will call you out.

Reply 786

mcgintychilcutt

Everyone needs to read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. Excellent depiction of Lewis' logical progression from Atheism to Christianity.

Reply 787

meatball893

11

mcgintychilcutt

Everyone needs to read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. Excellent depiction of Lewis' logical progression from Atheism to Christianity.

Thank you for that. I'll get it out of the library when I'm next there (which unfortunately won't be too soon...).

Reply 788

mcgintychilcutt

Everyone needs to read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. Excellent depiction of Lewis' logical progression from Atheism to Christianity.

I read it, he didn't make it to true Christianity (see Acts 2:4, 33, 39, Romans 8:9, Titus 3:5-6 for details). He became a believer who never got the revelation on salvation (judging by the fact that he never preached it).

Reply 789

philjw

NJA

I read it, he didn't make it to true Christianity (see Acts 2:4, 33, 39, Romans 8:9, Titus 3:5-6 for details). He became a believer who never got the revelation on salvation (judging by the fact that he never preached it).

I assume you're on about tongues again? And here I was thinking we were saved by faith and not by works (see Ephesians 2:8, Romans 3:21-22, 4:5, Titus 3:5-7 for details :wink:

), Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation.

You are going to enjoy your conversations with C.S. Lewis in heaven

Reply 790

philjw

I assume you're on about tongues again? And here I was thinking we were saved by faith and not by works (see Ephesians 2:8, Romans 3:21-22, 4:5, Titus 3:5-7 for details :wink:

), Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation.

You can't even get that bit right!

Ephesians 2:8 doesn't say we are "saved by faith", it says we are saved by grace, (received through faith).

Grace is NOT just absense of works or law, it is what Jesus was "full of" (John 1:14) - the nature and works of God ... he was full of the Holy Spirit.

Until you receive that grace by receiving "the Spirit of grace and supplications" (Zechariah 12:10, Acts 2:4, 33, 39) you are still "in the flesh", under the law of sin and death ... no good to anyone spiritually.

Reply 791

NathanL

OP

Eph 2:8 says we're saved by grace .... John 1:14 says that Jesus was full of grace .... Jesus was full of the Spirit ... This means that grace = spirit ... Ergo, we're saved by being full of the Spirit ... This means speaking in tongues...

That... has to be the worst use of scripture i've seen in a long time.

Reply 792

NathanL

OP

(Of course, let's forget the fact that John 1:14 says that Jesus was full of grace AND truth, and that Jesus distinguishes between Spirit and Truth in John 4. This would mean that your making Grace and Spirit equivalent in John 1:14 is dubious, to say the least. Why does Jesus being full of grace mean full of the Spirit, but not being full of truth? I'll tell you why: it's because you're terrible at interpreting scripture.)

Reply 793

NathanL

Eph 2:8 says we're saved by grace .... John 1:14 says that Jesus was full of grace .... Jesus was full of the Spirit ... This means that grace = spirit ... Ergo, we're saved by being full of the Spirit ... This means speaking in tongues...

That... has to be the worst use of scripture i've seen in a long time.

And those are your words not mine, so, you are condemned by your own judgement.

It follows on from your previous statement that we are saved "by faith not works ..., Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation."

No reasoning or logic here!

Speaking in tongues is not a work we do... we can't!
It is a miraculous work that the Holy Spirit does when we receive Him.

"they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:4, see also vv33, 39)

Also tongues is praying in the Spirit which builds up a person in the faith (Jude 20). You cannot receive that faith until you accept you havn't yet received it, there is no room for repentence in you.

Jesus never spoke in tongues because it is God's sign of entry into the New Testament, Jesus had to die before that could come into force.

Reply 794

jmj

2

NJA

And those are your words not mine, so, you are condemned by your own judgement.

It follows on from your previous statement that we are saved "by faith not works ..., Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation."

No reasoning or logic here!

Speaking in tongues is not a work we do... we can't!
It is a miraculous work that the Holy Spirit does when we receive Him.

"they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:4, see also vv33, 39)

Also tongues is praying in the Spirit which builds up a person in the faith (Jude 20). You cannot receive that faith until you accept you havn't yet received it, there is no room for repentence in you.

Jesus never spoke in tongues because it is God's sign of entry into the New Testament, Jesus had to die before that could come into force.

Hi, NJA, how are you? :smile:

I just had a quick question for you. Do you believe the criminal on the cross next to Jesus (Luke 23:40-43) became a Christian?

Thanks very much.

Reply 795

jmj

Hi, NJA, how are you? :smile:

I just had a quick question for you. Do you believe the criminal on the cross next to Jesus (Luke 23:40-43) became a Christian?

Thanks very much.

Hello jmj,
if you realised what a Christian is you would know the answer to that.

A Christian is someone who has received the Holy Spirit because “Christ” or “Messiah” means “anointed one” and the anointing is the Holy Spirit.

“ . . . you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9)

The Spirit was not given until after Jesus returned to the Father (John 7:39, Acts 2:33).

Reply 796

jmj

2

NJA

Hello jmj,
if you realised what a Christian is you would know the answer to that.

A Christian is someone who has received the Holy Spirit because “Christ” or “Messiah” means “anointed one” and the anointing is the Holy Spirit.

“ . . . you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9)

The Spirit was not given until after Jesus returned to the Father (John 7:39, Acts 2:33).

I'm surprised that you decided not to actually answer my question at all but instead made a claim about my knowledge of what a Christian is. Obviously you and I disagree on what a Christian is (as you know, I don't believe it's necessary to speak in tongues as you do).

I'm purely coming from a perspective here in wanting to understand your position a little better, so please don't be evasive and answer the question. Do you think, according to your particular belief that differs from mine that a Christian has to speak in tongues, the criminal on the cross became a Christian?

Reply 797