Should Ched Evans play football again??
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Original post by llys
For me it doesn't change anything tbh (but I happen to think he should be able to play football in either case). Even if he were to be cleared of rape, all the actions he has admitted to are utterly shameful and I would not wish to be personally associated with him. I'm guessing the few official people who have jumped the gun in not wanting to be associated with his name (Ennis, Heaton etc.) have that in mind at least partly also.
I didn't realise that 'shameful' (and subjective) actions are good reason to prevent people from having a career. Good to know.
Original post by unprinted
So if Harold Shipman had been released, you'd be ok about him resuming work as a doctor?
1) Shipman would never have been released.
2) He would not get a licence with the GMC.
3) Besides, that is directly incomparable as working as a doctor who killed patients is more of a risk than working as a footballer. How much interaction do you think a footballer, on a pitch, is going to have with women?
Original post by MJK91
I didn't realise that 'shameful' (and subjective) actions are good reason to prevent people from having a career. Good to know.
You clearly didn't read the post or any of my other posts. I'm all for Evans resuming his career, even as it stands now, so any change in circumstances would not affect my stance at all. I happen to think footballers are not role-models so I am not surprised when they confirm that by behaving immorally, nor do I think it should stop them from playing football, a game where morality is not important. But I can completely understand why some people will not want to be personally associated with someone or want their name associated with someone they consider morally reprehensible. I wouldn't invite him to my dinner parties either or put my name on his shirt. Of course, I am not in a position where I have to make that choice. Some people are, they have the choice to walk away, some have done so and some haven't - not a big deal at all IMO. I really don't understand why some people get so worked up over other people exercising their right not to associate with him... actions - even non-criminal actions - can have consequences, surely that cannot come as a surprise to anyone. It's like you all think he is entitled to be loved and praised by everyone and everyone should want to be his friend.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by unprinted
.. but he's not been in the US since the 70s after running away from the consequences of drugging and raping a 13 year old. Until he faces up to them, there are people who won't appear in his films and people who won't watch them. I think he's also only spent a day in the UK since then, because - unlike France - we'd deport him back to the US.
.. but he's not been in the US since the 70s after running away from the consequences of drugging and raping a 13 year old. Until he faces up to them, there are people who won't appear in his films and people who won't watch them. I think he's also only spent a day in the UK since then, because - unlike France - we'd deport him back to the US.
My point remains that despite being a sex criminal he's got on with his very good job. It's funny how you try to contend my point by disagreeing with one of my examples when I gave several
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Wade-
It's funny how you try to contend my point by disagreeing with one of my examples when I gave several
When you've answered all of my points in these threads, let me know...
Original post by unprinted
When you've answered all of my points in these threads, let me know...
I don't have to, you tried to challenge the credibility of point by criticising one example and it wasn't even a valid criticism
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by unprinted
When you've answered all of my points in these threads, let me know...
He doesn't have to answer all your points for you to answer all of his examples for his single point...
Five people got mentioned. I most about one, including the fact that they daren't step foot in the UK again. Hardly a successful career here.
Of the rest... One's dead. One's someone neither of us have ever heard of.
I didn't know about Marlon King's criminal record. I see that his then current club fired instantly him on conviction (unlike Sheffield United with Evans) but that he ended his career with... Sheffield United before another criminal conviction.
Interestingly, the WP article on him has the following comment from Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the PFA: "the PFA did not represent players when they have broken the law and been convicted on non-footballing matters." If so, it either wasn't the PFA who got Evans training with Sheffield United as reported, or they've changed their tune.
That leaves a former boxer - what are you supposed to do to express your disapproval of him? You can't not watch fights he's in, because he's not in any. He's also banned from the UK following his conviction - so much for..
.. because it clearly does.
We can't ban Evans from the UK, but it looks like if we could, we would.
Of the rest... One's dead. One's someone neither of us have ever heard of.
I didn't know about Marlon King's criminal record. I see that his then current club fired instantly him on conviction (unlike Sheffield United with Evans) but that he ended his career with... Sheffield United before another criminal conviction.
Interestingly, the WP article on him has the following comment from Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the PFA: "the PFA did not represent players when they have broken the law and been convicted on non-footballing matters." If so, it either wasn't the PFA who got Evans training with Sheffield United as reported, or they've changed their tune.
That leaves a former boxer - what are you supposed to do to express your disapproval of him? You can't not watch fights he's in, because he's not in any. He's also banned from the UK following his conviction - so much for..
Original post by Wade-
Mike Tyson went to jail for rape yet that didn't matter
.. because it clearly does.
We can't ban Evans from the UK, but it looks like if we could, we would.
Original post by unprinted
Five people got mentioned. I most about one, including the fact that they daren't step foot in the UK again. Hardly a successful career here.
Of the rest... One's dead. One's someone neither of us have ever heard of.
I didn't know about Marlon King's criminal record. I see that his then current club fired instantly him on conviction (unlike Sheffield United with Evans) but that he ended his career with... Sheffield United before another criminal conviction.
Interestingly, the WP article on him has the following comment from Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the PFA: "the PFA did not represent players when they have broken the law and been convicted on non-footballing matters." If so, it either wasn't the PFA who got Evans training with Sheffield United as reported, or they've changed their tune.
That leaves a former boxer - what are you supposed to do to express your disapproval of him? You can't not watch fights he's in, because he's not in any. He's also banned from the UK following his conviction - so much for..
.. because it clearly does.
We can't ban Evans from the UK, but it looks like if we could, we would.
Of the rest... One's dead. One's someone neither of us have ever heard of.
I didn't know about Marlon King's criminal record. I see that his then current club fired instantly him on conviction (unlike Sheffield United with Evans) but that he ended his career with... Sheffield United before another criminal conviction.
Interestingly, the WP article on him has the following comment from Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the PFA: "the PFA did not represent players when they have broken the law and been convicted on non-footballing matters." If so, it either wasn't the PFA who got Evans training with Sheffield United as reported, or they've changed their tune.
That leaves a former boxer - what are you supposed to do to express your disapproval of him? You can't not watch fights he's in, because he's not in any. He's also banned from the UK following his conviction - so much for..
.. because it clearly does.
We can't ban Evans from the UK, but it looks like if we could, we would.
I don't really know how you're arguing on this, my point was in response to this:
Original post by ArtGoblin
I can't think of any highly skilled job that would allow a rapist back. Unless you're self-employed you have no chance of a decent career with a serious conviction like rape.
I gave examples of people who went on to have careers despite being found guilty of sex crimes. Roman Polanski has won 6 oscars and had 14 nominations since he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. Marlon king played for another 2 or 3 teams after being released for, among other things, a sexual assault conviction. Tupac may be dead but he's regarded as one of the best rappers ever and he's an admired icon. Promotors still wanted Tyson to fight and paid him millions of dollars because people didn't care about his criminal history they wanted to see him fight, he's also been in films. You can't deny that each of those people had successful careers, and were not self employed, after they'd committed sex crimes.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Since Tyson's been mentioned did anyone see Charlie Websters tweet from a little while back...
Bit awks.
Bit awks.
Original post by Wade-
I don't really know how you're arguing on this, my point was in response to this:
I gave examples of people who went on to have careers despite being found guilty of sex crimes. Roman Polanski has won 6 oscars and had 14 nominations since he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. Marlon king played for another 2 or 3 teams after being released for, among other things, a sexual assault conviction. Tupac may be dead but he's regarded as one of the best rappers ever and he's an admired icon. Promotors still wanted Tyson to fight and paid him millions of dollars because people didn't care about his criminal history they wanted to see him fight, he's also been in films. You can't deny that each of those people had successful careers, and were not self employed, after they'd committed sex crimes.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I gave examples of people who went on to have careers despite being found guilty of sex crimes. Roman Polanski has won 6 oscars and had 14 nominations since he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. Marlon king played for another 2 or 3 teams after being released for, among other things, a sexual assault conviction. Tupac may be dead but he's regarded as one of the best rappers ever and he's an admired icon. Promotors still wanted Tyson to fight and paid him millions of dollars because people didn't care about his criminal history they wanted to see him fight, he's also been in films. You can't deny that each of those people had successful careers, and were not self employed, after they'd committed sex crimes.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Including Sheffield United, and nobody gave a **** about it. If people want to protest about Ched Evans then that's fine, everyone has their opinion, but where were they when Marlon King was offered a contract? Why the double standards?
He'll end up joining someone like Blackpool or Luton that never get mentioned in the national press. Sheffield United may be in League One but they're still a big club, so they're bound to get lots of media attention especially given the fact it's a high profile case.
Original post by Wade-
Promotors still wanted Tyson to fight and paid him millions of dollars because people didn't care about his criminal history they wanted to see him fight, he's also been in films. You can't deny that each of those people had successful careers, and were not self employed, after they'd committed sex crimes.
I don't know why you're arguing it either
Polanski hasn't been able to step foot in the USA or UK to so much as say 'thank you'. A majority in France apparently want to deport him too.
King never played again for the team he'd been with when convicted.
Promoter = 'someone wanting to make money off someone else's brain damage', and not exactly good role models (look up Don King - "He would kill his own mother for a dollar", said Tyson about him...)
Tyson is unable to come to the UK because of being a convicted rapist.
Original post by sr90
He'll end up joining someone like Blackpool or Luton that never get mentioned in the national press.
Blackpool is, of course, owned by a convicted rapist. He failed the 'fit and proper' test to own radio stations and he's no longer chairman (his son is) but the FA haven't stopped him having a majority stake in the club.
Original post by sr90
Including Sheffield United, and nobody gave a **** about it. If people want to protest about Ched Evans then that's fine, everyone has their opinion, but where were they when Marlon King was offered a contract? Why the double standards?
He'll end up joining someone like Blackpool or Luton that never get mentioned in the national press. Sheffield United may be in League One but they're still a big club, so they're bound to get lots of media attention especially given the fact it's a high profile case.
He'll end up joining someone like Blackpool or Luton that never get mentioned in the national press. Sheffield United may be in League One but they're still a big club, so they're bound to get lots of media attention especially given the fact it's a high profile case.
I don't know if you're disagreeing me with me or not?
Original post by unprinted
I don't know why you're arguing it either
Polanski hasn't been able to step foot in the USA or UK to so much as say 'thank you'. A majority in France apparently want to deport him too.
King never played again for the team he'd been with when convicted.
Promoter = 'someone wanting to make money off someone else's brain damage', and not exactly good role models (look up Don King - "He would kill his own mother for a dollar", said Tyson about him...)
Tyson is unable to come to the UK because of being a convicted rapist.
Polanski hasn't been able to step foot in the USA or UK to so much as say 'thank you'. A majority in France apparently want to deport him too.
King never played again for the team he'd been with when convicted.
Promoter = 'someone wanting to make money off someone else's brain damage', and not exactly good role models (look up Don King - "He would kill his own mother for a dollar", said Tyson about him...)
Tyson is unable to come to the UK because of being a convicted rapist.
But he has had a successful career, where he is allowed to go is irrelevant. He's won 6 oscars and been nominated for 14 since his sex crime that's successful for almost anyone in the world.
So what? He may have not played for that team but he still had a career.
The public wanted to see him. When he fought people saw mike Tyson the great fighter, most people didn't object to watching him because he's a rapist.
My point was those people had careers after committing a sex crime, that is an indisputable fact
Posted from TSR Mobile
No no no no no no. No.
I think his convinction was strange, dunno what i believe with regards to that
BUT he should be made an example of. Not only did he only serve two and a half years for being found guilty of rape but hes now been allowed to go back to his old life without a worry if hes allowed to play football.
What kind of message does that send to people about rape? That its not a serious crime, which is so messed up
I think his convinction was strange, dunno what i believe with regards to that
BUT he should be made an example of. Not only did he only serve two and a half years for being found guilty of rape but hes now been allowed to go back to his old life without a worry if hes allowed to play football.
What kind of message does that send to people about rape? That its not a serious crime, which is so messed up
In my opinion he shouldn't even be out of prison yet.
Original post by luuucyx
The strangest thing about his conviction is that he doesn't see why the law, the police, the Crown Prosecution Service, the jury, the judge, and the Court of Appeal all think that sticking his penis in an extremely drunk woman without asking her first - having turned up uninvited, unexpected, and unwanted in the room - is "rape".
The second strangest thing is that there are some people who agree with him, and - sadly - the third strangest thing is that there aren't more trials of such predators.
He's also in the middle of his sentence - he's not currently in prison, but there is a host of restrictions on what he can do. He is also on the 'barred' list for any job involving children or vulnerable adults, and for at least the next fifteen years he will be reporting to police on a host of matters, from his bank accounts to anywhere he intends to stay more than seven days in any year.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by unprinted
Have their careers been damaged? Yes.
Have their careers in the UK been badly damaged? Yes, to the point that two of the three we're now talking about can't even come here.
If Evans needed a visa to enter the UK, he probably wouldn't get one.
Have their careers in the UK been badly damaged? Yes, to the point that two of the three we're now talking about can't even come here.
If Evans needed a visa to enter the UK, he probably wouldn't get one.
I was responding to this:
Original post by ArtGoblin
I can't think of any highly skilled job that would allow a rapist back. Unless you're self-employed you have no chance of a decent career with a serious conviction like rape.
The fact of the matter is my point is correct, the people I mentioned were allowed back into a job you're just clearly set on disagreeing with me.
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