Is a law degree from a "crap" uni really worthless ?
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Law is elitist. That said there are different routes becoming available if you can't get yourself a training contract, the SRA are trying to make things more flexible.
There's a push for Paralegal positions to be able to lead to qualification as a solicitor. Maybe that would be a possible way in if you've gone to a "crap" university, to use the OP's phrase.
There's a push for Paralegal positions to be able to lead to qualification as a solicitor. Maybe that would be a possible way in if you've gone to a "crap" university, to use the OP's phrase.
Original post by Mimir
Law is elitist, I'd get negged for this post in years past but you can't do that now...
Now. A law degree is a law degree is a law degree. We can’t escape that. However, there is the unuttered opinion that a well-known firm considering, say, a BA (Hons) in Law at Sheffield Hallam, against an LLB (Hons) from a Russell Group University, would undoubtedly (in the majority of cases) favour the latter, all other things being equal. Prove me wrong.
You refer to a blog post in your comment. I have extracted a small section of that blog post. Surely a BA doesn't qualify a chap to be a solicitor anyway? Also, it's hardly unuttered people utter that better universities are preferable all the time.
Original post by Norton1
You refer to a blog post in your comment. I have extracted a small section of that blog post. Surely a BA doesn't qualify a chap to be a solicitor anyway? Also, it's hardly unuttered people utter that better universities are preferable all the time.
An undergraduate degree in Law is a prerequisite to do the LPC. Some Universities award a BA rather than LLB.
And it is unuttered at Law Soc meetings and in the Gazette when talking about diversity and employability etc.
Original post by Mimir
An undergraduate degree in Law is a prerequisite to do the LPC. Some Universities award a BA rather than LLB.
And it is unuttered at Law Soc meetings and in the Gazette when talking about diversity and employability etc.
And it is unuttered at Law Soc meetings and in the Gazette when talking about diversity and employability etc.
Well if a fellow has only been able to get a BA then that's a shame, but someone has to go to Oxford.
Surely people's own fault for not looking behind the official line. Someone with a BA from Hallam probably is less capable than someone with an LLB from Nottingham.
Original post by Norton1
Well if a fellow has only been able to get a BA then that's a shame, but someone has to go to Oxford.
Surely people's own fault for not looking behind the official line. Someone with a BA from Hallam probably is less capable than someone with an LLB from Nottingham.
Surely people's own fault for not looking behind the official line. Someone with a BA from Hallam probably is less capable than someone with an LLB from Nottingham.
I don't know about capability and 'fault', that's a wide brush to tar people with. Frankly, I think the elitism is important - unfortunate but necessary. Who wants a second class lawyer?
I go to Manchester Met Uni (which is generally considered "crap" by the traditional, Russell groups) and have just finished my first year of studying law.
We had a talk organised by our Law Society which involved staff from local solicitors as well as staff from Linklaters and someone asked who they would favour, a graduate from MMU or someone from (for example) Leeds Uni. They said it would depend on the level of work experience each had undertaken as well as academic results and other achievements (e.g. awards won, languages spoken, competitions entered).
So a law degree from a Uni that is considered "crap" to the general public isn't worthless, especially if you make the effort to do placements and internships which show that you aren't just an academic and that you can actually work in the real world.
We had a talk organised by our Law Society which involved staff from local solicitors as well as staff from Linklaters and someone asked who they would favour, a graduate from MMU or someone from (for example) Leeds Uni. They said it would depend on the level of work experience each had undertaken as well as academic results and other achievements (e.g. awards won, languages spoken, competitions entered).
So a law degree from a Uni that is considered "crap" to the general public isn't worthless, especially if you make the effort to do placements and internships which show that you aren't just an academic and that you can actually work in the real world.
I don't have too much experience as I haven't yet gone to uni, but I'd assume any qualifying law degree is not worthless, no matter the university.
Listen, it's not a valuable degree. Unless, you attend one of the top universities in the UK, then you're not wasting your time. However, don't waste your time studying law at a mediocre university. To be frank, law is one of those degrees that requires you to memorize and regurgitate a lot of information, rather than applying logic to legal situations (as all lawyers should do). Law in itself is an intellectually stimulating career, but studying law is really monotonous and tedious. One of the most calibre solicitors and barristers in the UK never attended law school, most of them hold degrees in subjects like mathematics, accounting or chemistry. Still, getting an LLB will exempt you from taking some exams. Plus, many firms started reducing pupillages and training contracts for recent graduates. In conclusion, if you're going to college right now, don't study law. Maybe the job market will change, but at the moment the field is oversaturated.
(edited 8 years ago)
Listen, it's not a valuable degree. Unless, you attend one of the top universities in the UK, then you're not wasting your time. However, don't waste your time studying law at a mediocre university. To be frank, law is one of those degrees that requires you to memorize and regurgitate a lot of information, rather than applying logic to legal situations (as all lawyers should do). Law in itself is an intellectually stimulating career, but studying law is really monotonous and tedious. One of the most calibre solicitors and barristers in the UK never attended law school, most of them hold degrees in subjects like mathematics, accounting or chemistry. Still, getting an LLB will exempt you from taking some exams. Plus, many firms started reducing pupillages and training contracts for recent graduates. In conclusion, if you're going to college right now don't study in law. Maybe the job market will change, but at the moment the field is oversaturated.
Original post by computerkid1011
Listen, it's not a valuable degree. Unless, you attend one of the top universities in the UK, then you're not wasting your time. However, don't waste your time studying law at a mediocre university. To be frank, law is one of those degrees that requires you to memorize and regurgitate a lot of information, rather than applying logic to legal situations (as all lawyers should do). Law in itself is an intellectually stimulating career, but studying law is really monotonous and tedious. One of the most calibre solicitors and barristers in the UK never attended law school, most of them hold degrees in subjects like mathematics, accounting or chemistry. Still, getting an LLB will exempt you from taking some exams. Plus, many firms started reducing pupillages and training contracts for recent graduates. In conclusion, if you're going to college right now don't study in law. Maybe the job market will change, but at the moment the field is oversaturated.
Where have you got this from?
The questions that most people are asking in this thread are far too broad - Are you looking for a City TC at a big international firm, or a smaller regional/high street firm? Whether your university will help/hinder starting a legal career depends massively on which path you want.
If you are looking for City jobs at big firm, unfortunately your university will make a difference. Of course it is not impossible to get there from a lower ranked university, however it will be less likely. For example, my intake of 45ish at an MC firm is made up of roughly half Oxbridge, a handful from each of Durham/LSE/UCL and then a single person from Warwick, Southampton, Birmingham and Exeter.
If, on the other hand, you aren't interested in big City type law, then your university won't be as much of a deciding factor.
If you are looking for City jobs at big firm, unfortunately your university will make a difference. Of course it is not impossible to get there from a lower ranked university, however it will be less likely. For example, my intake of 45ish at an MC firm is made up of roughly half Oxbridge, a handful from each of Durham/LSE/UCL and then a single person from Warwick, Southampton, Birmingham and Exeter.
If, on the other hand, you aren't interested in big City type law, then your university won't be as much of a deciding factor.
There are just as many unemployed History, English, Politics etc. grads as there are Law. The issue is that too many law grads don't give up on the idea of having a glistening city legal career having gone to a 'poor' uni or gotten poor grades or done little with regards to work experience. They think that the fact that they have a law degree from the metropolitan univesity of whatever entitles them to such a career, and waste money on the LPC and valuable time trying to get training contracts whilst working minimum wage jobs.
As has been said, Law is a subject that you could twist on your cv to be relevant to so many different careers, regardless of how relevant it actually is.
Point is, if you want to study law, go ahead. You won't be any worse off than a history grad who went to the same uni and got the same grades.
I would seriously reconsider entering a legal career if you have weaknesses on your cv though. I've given up on the idea of one, mainly because I have realised that it would bore the heck out of me career-wise, I've enjoyed it as a degree thus far though, and it is going to be attractive to employers if I get the final grades. I'm hoping for the civil service after my masters, and a good law degree will be a selling point.
As has been said, Law is a subject that you could twist on your cv to be relevant to so many different careers, regardless of how relevant it actually is.
Point is, if you want to study law, go ahead. You won't be any worse off than a history grad who went to the same uni and got the same grades.
I would seriously reconsider entering a legal career if you have weaknesses on your cv though. I've given up on the idea of one, mainly because I have realised that it would bore the heck out of me career-wise, I've enjoyed it as a degree thus far though, and it is going to be attractive to employers if I get the final grades. I'm hoping for the civil service after my masters, and a good law degree will be a selling point.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by gr8wizard10
No but the graduate job markets suggests it's useless in the wider sheme of things.
You're a bit of an arse arent you... i mean... youre not a lawyer, you dont do law, lets face it you probably couldnt. Leave answering law questions to lawyers.
Original post by smudger97
You're a bit of an arse arent you... i mean... youre not a lawyer, you dont do law, lets face it you probably couldnt. Leave answering law questions to lawyers.
go for it bud, the show suits said it best, law is the minor leagues
Original post by gr8wizard10
yes, it's worthless. Anything below top 20 or even top 10 for your discipline is essentially worthless imo.
Trust a TSRian to say if you don't go to the top 10 universities you'll be a failure.
I know a man who did Law at Nottingham Trent who became a barrister and has made millions.
To the OP. Most people on TSR will say go to a top 10 university or you'll be a failure. In reality it's not true. A Law degree will be highly respected by UK companies and companies around the world. You don't have to go into law with it.
As long as you don't go to an absolutely awful university, like Londom Met etc. Then you should do fine. Law is also one of the highest regarded non STEM subjects by companies.
Original post by oplao1
Trust a TSRian to say if you don't go to the top 10 universities you'll be a failure.
I know a man who did Law at Nottingham Trent who became a barrister and has made millions.
To the OP. Most people on TSR will say go to a top 10 university or you'll be a failure. In reality it's not true. A Law degree will be highly respected by UK companies and companies around the world. You don't have to go into law with it.
As long as you don't go to an absolutely awful university, like Londom Met etc. Then you should do fine. Law is also one of the highest regarded non STEM subjects by companies.
I know a man who did Law at Nottingham Trent who became a barrister and has made millions.
To the OP. Most people on TSR will say go to a top 10 university or you'll be a failure. In reality it's not true. A Law degree will be highly respected by UK companies and companies around the world. You don't have to go into law with it.
As long as you don't go to an absolutely awful university, like Londom Met etc. Then you should do fine. Law is also one of the highest regarded non STEM subjects by companies.
exception not the rule. let's stick to the statistics bud.
Original post by gr8wizard10
exception not the rule. let's stick to the statistics bud.
Of which you have provided none.
Please provide the statistic that proves that everyone who doesn't go to a top 10 university will be a failure.
Law is the 6th most successful degree subject for getting graduate jobs: telegraph .co.uk/education/0/graduate-jobs-top-12-degree-subjects-getting-job/
Also what degree do you do / university are you at?
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by oplao1
Of which you have provided none.
Please provide the statistic that proves that everyone who doesn't go to a top 10 university will be a failure.
Law is the 6th most successful degree subject for getting graduate jobs: telegraph .co.uk/education/0/graduate-jobs-top-12-degree-subjects-getting-job/
Also what degree do you do / university are you at?
Please provide the statistic that proves that everyone who doesn't go to a top 10 university will be a failure.
Law is the 6th most successful degree subject for getting graduate jobs: telegraph .co.uk/education/0/graduate-jobs-top-12-degree-subjects-getting-job/
Also what degree do you do / university are you at?
never made such a claim, anyone can do anything. but clearly you couldn't justify what you claim, again exception not the rule. you're totally dismissing the correlation.
makes it substantially harder and as such imo not worth it, may aswell go for the top unis. and if you think people at lower rates unis compare to those at targeted unis for TCs, you're delusional.
i have no interest in the law profession, nor do i particularly care about the people entering it.. but as far as advice goes, it's worth going into top unis for a competitive career.
I got BBC in my A-Levels recently. It certainly wasn't what I was hoping for, or indeed expecting. Life has battered me in several ways this academic year, and the fact I got BBC in my view is actually very good (despite my initial feelings at the time). I went through clearing and I am now going to study law at the University of Dundee. The Guardian League Tables rank it in the top 10, the Complete University Guide ranks it's 16th. I think if you want to go to the 'Magic Circle' firms then going to a Russell Group University is still somewhat of a pre-requisite (although they don't like to admit that). However, saying that, it isn't entirely impossible to get into a 'Magic Circle' firm if you have a very good classification degree (either 2.1 or a 1st) from whatever University.
It has already been alluded to here that the legal sector has had to diversify and become more flexible about who enters into the legal profession. This is where I believe what institution one studies at is becoming less important. What is becoming more important is the physical attributes outside of academia one can bring the legal sector. So extra-curricular activities, placements, vacation schemes, mini-pupillages and so on. I also believe that if you want it enough, study hard, make yourself attractive to employers then one should not have any issue in pursuing a bright career in the legal sector.
It has already been alluded to here that the legal sector has had to diversify and become more flexible about who enters into the legal profession. This is where I believe what institution one studies at is becoming less important. What is becoming more important is the physical attributes outside of academia one can bring the legal sector. So extra-curricular activities, placements, vacation schemes, mini-pupillages and so on. I also believe that if you want it enough, study hard, make yourself attractive to employers then one should not have any issue in pursuing a bright career in the legal sector.
Original post by Atreus
I have stumbled across many a post on here telling people they might as well do something else if they're not at a top 10 uni doing law .
I have stumbled across many a post on here telling people they might as well do something else if they're not at a top 10 uni doing law .
Total and utter bunkum.
You have to remember that the majority of people on TSR are not at Uni and havnt got a clue what they are talking about.
Its all 'I've heard', 'My teacher says' - they actually have no idea.
Retake your A levels, go to Uni and do a Law degree. There are THOUSANDS of employers out there waiting to employ you.
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