Is Further Maths actually hard??

OP

Original post by Boy_wonder_95

Yes I got in, so hopefully that adds some credibility to my argument. The best thing to go off is the official guide on the website http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/ba/guide.pdf. It say's the 'typical' successful applicant will have 4 subjects at A2 including Further Maths, so it should give you an indication of what they're looking for.

Besides, I don't really think that FM is sufficiently difficulty to warrant under-performance in your other A levels. I was in a similar position to you in Yr 11 regarding the uptake of Further Maths and it is really nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be or as it's made out to be. Taking Maths FM Econ and History, would probably be the best 4 subject combo you can take in preparation for the course and if you do well in them you'll be in a strong position for applications. It may seem risky taking FM but you have a whole year to prepare for those 3 exams which is a lot if you think about it, and as with all risks you'll never know if you don't try.

Yeah I guess you're right! & If FM get's too difficult I can just drop it in the first year... Thanks so much for taking your time to write all this!
Can I ask what you got for GCSE & A-Levels? Did you choose those combo? Like did you do anything else to increase your application process to success??

Reply 183

OP

Original post by S25

Just so some of the Yr 10/11's are clear,

AS refers to your first year of studying an A Level, and the highest grade you can get for an AS module is an A.
If you choose to continue your AS subject on to A2 (second year of college) then your AS grade combines with your A2 grade to form the A Level, where the highest grade here is an A*.
if you do not choose to continue, you just get your AS level (not a full A Level).

I did OCR (not mei) Maths and Further. The AS modules for first year are: C1, C2, and (S1 or M1). I had three teachers teaching me from Sept until my exam in Jan 2013.
The AS Modules for Further Maths AS Level are: FP1, D1 and (S1 or M1). Once again taught by 3 teachers from Jan-May 2013.
Because I had January exams in my AS year, things were very manageable and I did have enough time to study for both my maths modules and my biology and chemistry ones too.

The beginning of A2 maths and further with C3, C4 and S2 were really fun (i know - how can maths be fun?) as the maths is not as difficult as it may have seemed in AS. Sure you can tell the maths is stepped up a bit more - but is is definitely bearable. However, once january started AND THERE WAS NO LONGER ANY JANUARY EXAMS! it became weird having just learnt so much and then not being tested at the end of it, and then moving on to new topics: FP2, FP3 and S3 (for me). These were challenging and really tough as your were learning something really really new (not really touched upon) and lots of it. The amount of information for FP2/3 felt like they had combined 3 modules in 1. 6 maths modules, 2 Chem and 2 Bio was a lot to study for the may/june exam series, especially as I was used to the Jan exam system!

Honestly - FP2 and FP3 are really difficult, they are not the easiest thing to self-teach, which is why you need a teacher for help. Hopefully they finish teaching early so you have lots of time for past paper practise and revision.

AS Further maths for was totally manageable, however, for you the circumstances have changed as there are no Jan exams. I really don't know if i could have managed all 6 AS exams in June along with my other AS Levels ... for A2, I can tell you it is far harder than AS, but remember it isn't impossible with great strategy and early revision :smile:

Wow! This is so long thanks so much!!
Yeah, don't know if you're Einstein but I think I'll take it if I get A*...

Reply 184

Boy_wonder_95

15

Original post by kid_kangaroo

Yeah I guess you're right! & If FM get's too difficult I can just drop it in the first year... Thanks so much for taking your time to write all this!
Can I ask what you got for GCSE & A-Levels? Did you choose those combo? Like did you do anything else to increase your application process to success??

I'll PM you :smile:

Reply 185

DFranklin

Original post by S25

I really like the above analogy too, but if there is one thing I must stress, PLEASE REVISE EARLY. for further maths, around about march/april, i recommend going over what you have learnt from the beginning of your current modules (i.e. i started FP2, FP3 and S3 in january, so start studying from march - just around the easter holidays.) This is because it is hard to juggle six modules in maths/further maths as well as your other a level subjects.The thing that's unique about the M/FM combination is that (unlike any other subjects I'm aware of), one really does build on the other (more true for pure than applied, but somewhat for both). This works both ways:

It's really hard to do well in FM if you're not confident about the M topics. Because you'll be in the middle of some FM question, and it will expect you to integrate something non-trivial, with little help/support. (Or to differentiate a complicated expression; or to do some vector maths; etc...). I suspect this is one of the biggest reasons for people struggling in FM.

But the flip-side is that doing FM well means you will be getting a lot of drilling on the M topics by default.

When I did M/FM A-levels, I didn't actually bother to revise for M at all.

Reply 186

DFranklin

Original post by Boy_wonder_95

Yes I got in, so hopefully that adds some credibility to my argument. The best thing to go off is the official guide on the website http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/ba/guide.pdf. It say's the 'typical' successful applicant will have 4 subjects at A2 including Further Maths, so it should give you an indication of what they're looking for.Do you have an idea if 'typical' means 50% of applicants have FM, or 90% or ...?

It's always a bit hard to read what Cambridge mean by "typical" or "desirable", but in my experience it tends to be a lot closer to a de-facto requirement (*) than the wording might indicate. Judging by people at my old college (we are talking over 20 years ago, and my recollection may be wrong), I would guess that the vast majority of people would have FM, and most of those who don't would not have had it available as an option (different exam systems, failure of school to offer FM A-level etc).

(*) Unless the exam is not offered by your school/exam system.

Besides, I don't really think that FM is sufficiently difficulty to warrant under-performance in your other A levels.

Agreed. Certainly in Cambridge terms. FM is a walk in the park compared with what you'll have to deal with at university.

Reply 187

Rookie cookie

Well I got a B in GCSE and I ended up with an A* in AS further maths so it's no biggie! Just spend time doing exam papers and exam solutions is really helpful :smile:

Reply 188

OP

Original post by Jatyization

I know for some courses they class maths and further maths as one subject, so just be aware of that.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Yep, the college I'm applying for does (double) maths which I think is Maths & FM combined as one subject...

Reply 189

OP

Original post by Rookie cookie

Well I got a B in GCSE and I ended up with an A* in AS further maths so it's no biggie! Just spend time doing exam papers and exam solutions is really helpful :smile:

Wow! How did you manage to do that can I ask? Did you find Maths as GCSE difficult or just didn't revise to get that B? Or did you like study a lot of A-levels? Congratulations btw!

Reply 190

TenOfThem

Original post by kid_kangaroo

Yep, the college I'm applying for does (double) maths which I think is Maths & FM combined as one subject...

That is not what was meant

Some things to consider

•

Does the college teach maths in 12 nand FM in 13

•

Or do the teach M and FM alongside each other

•

What are your unit options - do you get options or does the college fix these

•

Do you do 12 or 13 units - a number of schools will do 13

•

Are you able to drop FM and keep M

•

Can you do M + AS FM

•

What happens in your blocks if you drop FM

Then

•

What are you hoping to study

•

Where

•

Some courses at some universities will not count M and FM as 2 results so you will need 2 other A2s

Reply 191

username1200599

12

Original post by Rookie cookie

Well I got a B in GCSE and I ended up with an A* in AS further maths so it's no biggie! Just spend time doing exam papers and exam solutions is really helpful :smile:

How on earth did you get an A* in an AS level?

I smell liessssssssssssss

Reply 192

imapedo

11

Yes it is hard. There's no doubt about that. It just requires that extra bit of effort compared to normal maths. FP3 in particular is a very tough one.

Reply 193

Rookie cookie

Original post by Iridann

How on earth did you get an A* in an AS level?

I smell liessssssssssssss

You can smell whatever you want! It still won't change the fact I got an A*, it's written in black and white...

Reply 194

Rookie cookie

Original post by kid_kangaroo

Wow! How did you manage to do that can I ask? Did you find Maths as GCSE difficult or just didn't revise to get that B? Or did you like study a lot of A-levels? Congratulations btw!

The thing is my GCSE grades were pretty mediocre, I got A* 7A's and 3B's compared to the student room! Well for maths you have to just practise throughout the year, no notes are needed but just practise, practise practise practise... I got a b at gcse because I wasn't that great at maths at that point so I did c1 and c2 in summer and got it over and done with!

Reply 195

TenOfThem

Original post by Rookie cookie

You can smell whatever you want! It still won't change the fact I got an A*, it's written in black and white...

There is no A* grade in AS

If you meant A2 then you made an error

Otherwise - this is not true

Reply 196

OP

Original post by TenOfThem

That is not what was meant

Some things to consider

•

Does the college teach maths in 12 nand FM in 13

•

Or do the teach M and FM alongside each other

•

What are your unit options - do you get options or does the college fix these

•

Do you do 12 or 13 units - a number of schools will do 13

•

Are you able to drop FM and keep M

•

Can you do M + AS FM

•

What happens in your blocks if you drop FM

Then

•

What are you hoping to study

•

Where

•

Some courses at some universities will not count M and FM as 2 results so you will need 2 other A2s

All I got from the prospectus was that it is a two year course done with Edexcel. This is what it exactly states: In year 1 you will complete AS level Pure Maths & AS Further Maths, so you will do areas including algebra, geometry, trigonometry, statistics and mechanics. In year two A level Maths & A level FM are studied, with advanced modules focusing on further pure mathematics, stats & decision making.
I'll ask more on what modules they do at the interview... & if I can drop it if it get's too difficult! Right now I'm just going to apply for Maths & change it to double if I get an A*, since that is the requirements!

Yep, that's why I'm planning to take (double) Maths, History, Chem & Bio for AS & maybe drop History for A2, depends...
I looked at the LSE requirements and they don't consider Maths & FM as two different A-levels...
Right now it's either Chemical Engineering or Economics! :smile:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 197

Wissenschaft

9

Original post by kid_kangaroo

Right now I'm just going to apply for Maths & change it to double if I get an A*, since that is the requirements!

Yep, that's why I'm planning to take (double) Maths, History, Chem & Bio for AS & maybe drop History for A2, depends...
I looked at the LSE requirements and they don't consider Maths & FM as two different A-levels...
Right now it's either Chemical Engineering or Economics! :smile:

A2 is much harder than AS. Besides, doing extra unnecessary courses may drag down your performance in the other A-levels. Most Universities prefer A*AA to AAAA, so this is something to consider.

Also, might I ask why you aren't considering Physics? Physics is very useful for both engineering (yes, even chemical engineering) and economics (it is very mathematical at A-level).

Reply 198

TenOfThem

Original post by kid_kangaroo

This is what it exactly states: In year 1 you will complete AS level Pure Maths & AS Further Maths

IMO, this is the slightly harder way of doing the 2 subjects but plenty of schools do it this way.

Reply 199

OP