EU Immigrants Boost UK Economy By £20 Bil+
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This is all well and good if you think immigration can be defined as beneficial on the basis of some mathematical model presided over by a bunch of europhile academics.
At what point will people recognise that enough people live in the uk? Will it be when we're driving 30 miles to the nearest school? Will it be when we're waiting 4 weeks to see a GP? Furthermore, we have enough unemployed in the UK who should be filling positions taken by these migrants. That won't happen though because we know fine well that an endless supply of labour ensures businesses are able to keep wages screwed down.
At what point will people recognise that enough people live in the uk? Will it be when we're driving 30 miles to the nearest school? Will it be when we're waiting 4 weeks to see a GP? Furthermore, we have enough unemployed in the UK who should be filling positions taken by these migrants. That won't happen though because we know fine well that an endless supply of labour ensures businesses are able to keep wages screwed down.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by pickup
If you are really complaining that our Governments have been poor planners and not sorted out the provision of places in schools etc, then that is right. You need to complain to them not blame immigrants without whom our economy would be poorer. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
If you are really complaining that our Governments have been poor planners and not sorted out the provision of places in schools etc, then that is right. You need to complain to them not blame immigrants without whom our economy would be poorer. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
So what do you propose, build an extra dozen or so hospitals and schools? How many billions will that cost? Furthermore, who is going to staff them? Maybe we could 'import' a further half a million migrants to run these places.
Well, yeah, if you add people to an economy it's obviously going to grow by virtue of population growth. This statement alone doesn't mean much.
Let me add an example, I think at the moment the economy is supposed to be growing rather satisfactorily, but wages are still declining slightly relative to inflation. GDP is well and good as a measure of size but GDP per capita is more indicative of quality of life, and even that isn't a great measure. So saying immigration increases the size of the economy is meaningless if that can't be clearly linked to an increase in quality of life, which is what a great majority of people ultimately care about.
Let me add an example, I think at the moment the economy is supposed to be growing rather satisfactorily, but wages are still declining slightly relative to inflation. GDP is well and good as a measure of size but GDP per capita is more indicative of quality of life, and even that isn't a great measure. So saying immigration increases the size of the economy is meaningless if that can't be clearly linked to an increase in quality of life, which is what a great majority of people ultimately care about.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Kaiju
UKIP voters everywhere be like
You're right
This country does need hundreds of millions of immigrants to do the jobs we don't want to do,
That makes sense, and look , it helps the economy too.
Original post by Truths
Well, Well, Well.
Romans invading Britain also helped our economy.
It's the moral principle behind it though.
Original post by Parry97
Unfortunately so many of these eu migrants are on low paid work and therefore pay very little in terms of tax revenue
Countries like Germany, Spain, France and Italy produce people as skilled as Brits and make up about half the EU population. Without deeper analysis i'm skeptical of your claim.
Original post by Rakas21
Countries like Germany, Spain, France and Italy produce people as skilled as Brits and make up about half the EU population. Without deeper analysis i'm skeptical of your claim.
So the point about migrants doing jobs which Brits don't want to is purely anecdotal and essentially bollox.
Have I understood that right?
Original post by Heliosphan
So the point about migrants doing jobs which Brits don't want to is purely anecdotal and essentially bollox.
Have I understood that right?
Have I understood that right?
No, i simply contest the number since nobody ever seems to provide a breakdown of EU immigration.
There are certainly plenty of immigrants who do unskilled jobs, but i've yet to see evidence that these constitute a majority of immigrants.
People seem to love tarnishing EU migrants when there are plenty doing skilled jobs.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Heliosphan
So what do you propose, build an extra dozen or so hospitals and schools? How many billions will that cost? Furthermore, who is going to staff them? Maybe we could 'import' a further half a million migrants to run these places.
Will wouldn't that create more jobs?
I mean the NHS, would have self-destructed long ago without, immigrants. Deficit spending is the only real threatening economic drain.
Original post by Truths
Well, Well, Well.
Have you shown that EVERY immigrant who comes here is a net contributor?
Nope- you have simply shown that OVERALL they contribute. So what if one immigrant contributed £30 billion pounds and the rest cost us £10bn?
The point is you dont invite unqualified fools to live in this country.
You do realise that even people coming here to work are causing problems? Traffic is increasing, the need for housing is increasing, NHS increasing, school places need increasing.
And for what? So that costa coffee can have some more employees?
(edited 9 years ago)
It is a horribly flawed report, I saw the *shudder* Guardian article about it, except it dropped the EU bit and just talked about immigrants as a whole and completely failed to consider the £120bn from the Non-EEC origins. Then I read the telegraph article when I got the paper:
1) There is also the £120bn loss from the rest of the world
2) It's over a SEVENTEEN YEAR period, it's not like they're making us 20bn p/a
3) They're mostly highly educated, something like 67% of those from Western Europe have degrees, and even from the rest of Europe it's still IIRC 25% (our national average is 24%, although that's somewhat skewed by our generation having much higher university attendance than the last).
4) It, to my knowledge, fails to take into account that for a large proportion if immigrants coming into the country and taking a job, there is a native who is consequently not in a job and therefore claiming benefits
Additioanlly, while people may say it's good for us, it isn't necessarily good for the country they're coming from, I should think a lot of people who like this £20bn and who are heckling kippers/Tories for it wouldn't take too kindly to the countries of origin failing, or at least being worse off, because their talent pool is abroad. Also to those who are heckling Tories/kippers, while I can't speak for all Tories and Kippers, it's not the young, well educated immigrants that we take offence to, it's the unskilled ones.
1) There is also the £120bn loss from the rest of the world
2) It's over a SEVENTEEN YEAR period, it's not like they're making us 20bn p/a
3) They're mostly highly educated, something like 67% of those from Western Europe have degrees, and even from the rest of Europe it's still IIRC 25% (our national average is 24%, although that's somewhat skewed by our generation having much higher university attendance than the last).
4) It, to my knowledge, fails to take into account that for a large proportion if immigrants coming into the country and taking a job, there is a native who is consequently not in a job and therefore claiming benefits
Additioanlly, while people may say it's good for us, it isn't necessarily good for the country they're coming from, I should think a lot of people who like this £20bn and who are heckling kippers/Tories for it wouldn't take too kindly to the countries of origin failing, or at least being worse off, because their talent pool is abroad. Also to those who are heckling Tories/kippers, while I can't speak for all Tories and Kippers, it's not the young, well educated immigrants that we take offence to, it's the unskilled ones.
Original post by Rakas21
No, i simply contest the number since nobody ever seems to provide a breakdown of EU immigration.
There are certainly plenty of immigrants who do unskilled jobs, but i've yet to see evidence that these constitute a majority of immigrants.
People seem to love tarnishing EU migrants when there are plenty doing skilled jobs.
There are certainly plenty of immigrants who do unskilled jobs, but i've yet to see evidence that these constitute a majority of immigrants.
People seem to love tarnishing EU migrants when there are plenty doing skilled jobs.
I attach no blame whatsoever to EU migrants, because if we were in their shoes we'd do the exact same. However, what is frankly indisputable, is the fact that the vast vast majority of EU migrants are low skilled and often send money home, which means they pay little or no tax.
Original post by Parry97
I attach no blame whatsoever to EU migrants, because if we were in their shoes we'd do the exact same. However, what is frankly indisputable, is the fact that the vast vast majority of EU migrants are low skilled and often send money home, which means they pay little or no tax.
frankly indisputable
I say again, prove that.
Some or many does not a majority make.
Original post by Rakas21
I say again, prove that.
Some or many does not a majority make.
Some or many does not a majority make.
I'm no going to partake in the troublesome exercise of trawling through pages and pages of different immigration reports, what I will say is this, it is accepted both in the pro-EU guardian and eu sceptic telegraph both of which are reliable sources that, the majority of EU migrants come to work in low skilled industries
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