Should Female Soldiers be Allowed to Fight on the Frontline?
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I think this thread once again shows the standard TSR split: idealism and realism.
The notion that everybody be perfectly equal and able to each other's jobs is a noble one that few people would disagree with.
What they do disagree with is reality. All the high minded rhetoric is fine, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation: people aren't equal.
The notion that everybody be perfectly equal and able to each other's jobs is a noble one that few people would disagree with.
What they do disagree with is reality. All the high minded rhetoric is fine, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation: people aren't equal.
Isn't the army fine as it is?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
You need to remember squaddie culture, such as it is. After a while (and enough alcohol) a sort of laddish/sexual frenzy develops; to give a few examples games like Zulu warrior (stripping off to drink essentially), grab a granny (self explanatory) and one I cant recall the name of now but involves shoving a rolled up newspaper in your arse, setting it alight and then leaping around to try and put it out. Throw a woman into that mix, any woman, and you have problems on your hands. The infantry is too male an environment; forget about physical differences and logistical concerns, a woman just could not fit in
Original post by fybyth
You need to remember squaddie culture, such as it is. After a while (and enough alcohol) a sort of laddish/sexual frenzy develops; to give a few examples games like Zulu warrior (stripping off to drink essentially), grab a granny (self explanatory) and one I cant recall the name of now but involves shoving a rolled up newspaper in your arse, setting it alight and then leaping around to try and put it out. Throw a woman into that mix, any woman, and you have problems on your hands. The infantry is too male an environment; forget about physical differences and logistical concerns, a woman just could not fit in
There's plenty of posts on military forums, and by military personal, with first hand experience with women on the front line. The main problems they reported were obviously to do with romance/sex. Sleeping with superior officers, jealousy, people fighting over them, them having more sway and getting away with more due to said sexual relationships, becoming pregnant.
It's at no fault of the women of course, if you put 20 members of one sex, and one member of the opposite, in any isolated environment for long periods of time, there's going to be sex, and with sex comes big problems, which could eventually cost a life.
I just don't see why they need to fix what has never been broken.
"I just don't see why they need to fix what has never been broken."
To appease the massive and powerful feminist lobby that drives this lunacy.
To appease the massive and powerful feminist lobby that drives this lunacy.
Original post by fybyth
You need to remember squaddie culture, such as it is. After a while (and enough alcohol) a sort of laddish/sexual frenzy develops; to give a few examples games like Zulu warrior (stripping off to drink essentially), grab a granny (self explanatory) and one I cant recall the name of now but involves shoving a rolled up newspaper in your arse, setting it alight and then leaping around to try and put it out. Throw a woman into that mix, any woman, and you have problems on your hands. The infantry is too male an environment; forget about physical differences and logistical concerns, a woman just could not fit in
Dance of the flaming ********s.
You forgot about 'freckles' and the horror stories involving 3 para mortar platoon.
Original post by KingGoonIan
It was announced yesterday that female soldiers could be allowed into front line combat roles. Should they be allowed to fight on the front line?
if they can meet the standards set for men then yes.
if they try to lower the standards to help women get in then no.
but if a women has the same skills AND RESPONSIBILITY as a man then why not.
sadly a lot of women aren't responsible nor does society expect them to be.
when women are held as equally responsible as men then the feminists rally.
if they can work as a team
and if they can maintain discipline without becoming emotionally unstable and blaming it on periods then ok.
but i don't think women should do any stealth operations. due to their periods.
the smell is very detectable to guard dogs and tracker dogs. also stocking sanitary towels that will be needed and need to be disposed of. but these things will be an issue for tracking. also if the women is in pain during reconnaissance.
then when a women gets caught expect plenty of rape.
Original post by Mick.w
but if a women has the same skills AND RESPONSIBILITY as a man then why not.
sadly a lot of women aren't responsible nor does society expect them to be.
sadly a lot of women aren't responsible nor does society expect them to be.
Er. What?
Women have been trusted with being officers in the armed forces for decades, what makes you think they can't handle the responsibility of being an infanteer?
Original post by Drewski
Er. What?
Women have been trusted with being officers in the armed forces for decades, what makes you think they can't handle the responsibility of being an infanteer?
Women have been trusted with being officers in the armed forces for decades, what makes you think they can't handle the responsibility of being an infanteer?
i was making a point about society in general. its a danger zone.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Dance of the flaming ********s.
You forgot about 'freckles' and the horror stories involving 3 para mortar platoon.
You forgot about 'freckles' and the horror stories involving 3 para mortar platoon.
Freckles is bad.
I've seen people try and play it - it didn't work, but it was pretty terrible nontheless.
Original post by Mick.w
i was making a point about society in general. its a danger zone.
Pretty crap point though, as it it's nonsense. What role are women not allowed into because they're deemed 'untrustworthy'? They're teachers, doctors, lecturers, pilots, police officers, barristers, judges... I'm falling to see what on earth you're getting at.
Original post by Clip
Freckles is bad.
I've seen people try and play it - it didn't work, but it was pretty terrible nontheless.
I've seen people try and play it - it didn't work, but it was pretty terrible nontheless.
Then there's naked role may fighting.
Original post by fybyth
You need to remember squaddie culture, such as it is. After a while (and enough alcohol) a sort of laddish/sexual frenzy develops; to give a few examples games like Zulu warrior (stripping off to drink essentially), grab a granny (self explanatory) and one I cant recall the name of now but involves shoving a rolled up newspaper in your arse, setting it alight and then leaping around to try and put it out. Throw a woman into that mix, any woman, and you have problems on your hands. The infantry is too male an environment; forget about physical differences and logistical concerns, a woman just could not fit in
Maybe then, squadie culture needs to change if the armed forces are going to move forward. I mean I am a dude and there is no way I'd want to work in an environment like that, straight up, it sounds ****ing awful.
I'm also not happy with the bolded bit, I don't see what it is about being, frankly, crude, rude and aggressive that is inherently male.
Original post by Drewski
Pretty crap point though, as it it's nonsense. What role are women not allowed into because they're deemed 'untrustworthy'? They're teachers, doctors, lecturers, pilots, police officers, barristers, judges... I'm falling to see what on earth you're getting at.
their not denied the roles but i've seem them be a problem in those roles.
for example. i have never seen a guy cry because he was doing his job badly.
I really don't see the point in trying to change the current rules for the army unless they are going to make the army itself more effective, and I just see how the introduction of females into the infantry will benefit the army itself. The army is meant to protect us with whatever means it deems fit, that should be it's ultimate aim and should he exempt from political correctness.
People have mentioned about how it might affect the day to day activities of the army, the culture many in the army cling onto (which seem might deem sexist on areas) and how some might become more protective of the females (which might incur relationships). I deem all of these as some if the questions we should be asking in regards to our armies effectiveness, which I might add is world-renowned as one of the best armies in the world.
There is also a matter of cost. I don't think some people realise that every person in the infantry must undergo a series of tests every several weeks, and if the person doesn't succeed, they must do those couple of weeks all over again. Now while the army do have baseline tests for joining the infantry, they are not so high that a woman could not join due to biological reasons, however when the more laborious activities take place, I think it is safe to say that biological it would be more likely for a woman not to be able to do as well as men, not to mention the strain hormonally (testosterone is key for labour intensive activities). Now this would mean there would be a larger cost for the MoD as more people would be sent back a couple of weeks, and I'll say again, how is this helping to defend us? I'm not even including the legal costs for any discrimination claim that could take place which I'll have no doubt would be extensive and bad publicly for the army.
I don't want this post to come across as sexist or nasty against woman in any way. I see many other legitimate places in the army which nonetheless are integral for the functioning of the army. Engineering, nursing, pilots, doctors, there are many occupations which require little sexual dimorphism, and these I'd put on equal importance to those on the front-line.
My question is to those that support this, how will adding females into the infantry benefit our army? How will it make the defence of this country better? These are the questions I feel we should be asking and not whether the army is "fair" or not.
Posted from TSR Mobile
People have mentioned about how it might affect the day to day activities of the army, the culture many in the army cling onto (which seem might deem sexist on areas) and how some might become more protective of the females (which might incur relationships). I deem all of these as some if the questions we should be asking in regards to our armies effectiveness, which I might add is world-renowned as one of the best armies in the world.
There is also a matter of cost. I don't think some people realise that every person in the infantry must undergo a series of tests every several weeks, and if the person doesn't succeed, they must do those couple of weeks all over again. Now while the army do have baseline tests for joining the infantry, they are not so high that a woman could not join due to biological reasons, however when the more laborious activities take place, I think it is safe to say that biological it would be more likely for a woman not to be able to do as well as men, not to mention the strain hormonally (testosterone is key for labour intensive activities). Now this would mean there would be a larger cost for the MoD as more people would be sent back a couple of weeks, and I'll say again, how is this helping to defend us? I'm not even including the legal costs for any discrimination claim that could take place which I'll have no doubt would be extensive and bad publicly for the army.
I don't want this post to come across as sexist or nasty against woman in any way. I see many other legitimate places in the army which nonetheless are integral for the functioning of the army. Engineering, nursing, pilots, doctors, there are many occupations which require little sexual dimorphism, and these I'd put on equal importance to those on the front-line.
My question is to those that support this, how will adding females into the infantry benefit our army? How will it make the defence of this country better? These are the questions I feel we should be asking and not whether the army is "fair" or not.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by mojojojo101
Maybe then, squadie culture needs to change if the armed forces are going to move forward. I mean I am a dude and there is no way I'd want to work in an environment like that, straight up, it sounds ****ing awful.
If you couldn't hack that kind of environment then I very much doubt you would be capable of killing people who want to kill you. That atmosphere is as much a pre-battlefield test of character as the basic training you do.
This is not a normal job. The job description is to 'close with and kill the enemy' How exactly can the armed forces "move forward"? Move forward to what haha?
I'm also not happy with the bolded bit, I don't see what it is about being, frankly, crude, rude and aggressive that is inherently male.
Well, testosterone, which is literally the hormone that defines our sex leads to dominating behaviour, something which encompasses pretty much all of these traits.
Original post by Mick.w
for example. i have never seen a guy cry because he was doing his job badly.
for example. i have never seen a guy cry because he was doing his job badly.
You have obviously never worked in any kind of stressful environment before. Because I have seen it on multiple occasions from men who usually scared the **** out of me.
Original post by Mick.w
their not denied the roles but i've seem them be a problem in those roles.
for example. i have never seen a guy cry because he was doing his job badly.
for example. i have never seen a guy cry because he was doing his job badly.
I'm sorry, but this as an argument is nonsense. There are plenty of women in the armed forces dealing perfectly well with huge amounts of responsibility, just as there are in civilian life.
Original post by Drewski
Er. What?
Women have been trusted with being officers in the armed forces for decades, what makes you think they can't handle the responsibility of being an infanteer?
Women have been trusted with being officers in the armed forces for decades, what makes you think they can't handle the responsibility of being an infanteer?
exactly...
same of desperate hackneyed rubbish we've seen before at integration, at allowing women to sea and as aircrew and at allowing LGBT services personnel to serve openly
[QUOTE=Mick.w;52419411
for example. i have never seen a guy cry because he was doing his job badly.
<spherical glandular objects> , either that or you are some 'hard man' no mark civvie who has never served the country whether in the military or the emergency services / NHS
for example. i have never seen a guy cry because he was doing his job badly.
<spherical glandular objects> , either that or you are some 'hard man' no mark civvie who has never served the country whether in the military or the emergency services / NHS
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