My opinion: uni really isn't for the majority
Scroll to see replies
Original post by flutterby-x303
Ok what do you define as "experienced" and in the field of what? Life?
At 18 most people are in school or have just left, most have focused on their studies as I did, some got part time jobs - ie they were more experienced than me at the time. I don't however think that uni life gives you more of a "life experience" than getting a job etc. Is that your argument re experience?
I am saying that people who have no personality AND are swots (the two usually go hand in hand) will likely have been to uni. (Because who would be swotty and not go to uni?). I am by no means saying everyone at uni is a swot or everyone at Oxbridge is a swot.
Let's forget about that tiny section of my original argument because quite frankly it's the least of my bothers. I am more interested in the debate that uni isn't for everyone and all schools should make more effort to ensure students see the range of possibilities post a level.
Also about the volunteering I had to tread on hot coals to get the position (hospital radio) because they were concerned about my age (they usually don't take on people under 21).
Sorry you thought my response was immature. I didn't purposefully mean to throw your insult back at you, I just said what I thought.
At 18 most people are in school or have just left, most have focused on their studies as I did, some got part time jobs - ie they were more experienced than me at the time. I don't however think that uni life gives you more of a "life experience" than getting a job etc. Is that your argument re experience?
I am saying that people who have no personality AND are swots (the two usually go hand in hand) will likely have been to uni. (Because who would be swotty and not go to uni?). I am by no means saying everyone at uni is a swot or everyone at Oxbridge is a swot.
Let's forget about that tiny section of my original argument because quite frankly it's the least of my bothers. I am more interested in the debate that uni isn't for everyone and all schools should make more effort to ensure students see the range of possibilities post a level.
Also about the volunteering I had to tread on hot coals to get the position (hospital radio) because they were concerned about my age (they usually don't take on people under 21).
Sorry you thought my response was immature. I didn't purposefully mean to throw your insult back at you, I just said what I thought.
No, that's not my argument re: experience. What I am again debating is the point you're pushing regarding this rather stereotypical and outdated idea of "swots," people who do nothing but study all the time. The vast majority of people who go to uni do not study all the time (I'd go as far to say that, if they did, university grades would be a lot higher unless they were adjusted to take this into account!) or anything close.
By "experienced," I mean someone who's basing this point off more than just having been to private school and so on. If you haven't even been to uni yet, how will you know what the people there are like? And, if you haven't held a job, how will you know what the people in the working world (some of who have left school after GCSEs/A-levels and haven't) are like?
Again, there is nothing wrong with not knowing this sort of thing - loads of people (could even be most) start uni at 18 or 19 never having had a job. But the fact that you even seem to seriously think that a sizeable proportion of people at unis are "swots" (which is little more than a stereotype, as are your comments about them all going to Oxbridge, spending all day in the library and doing PhDs) with no personality is eyebrow-raising. A lot of your remarks really are obviously based on stereotypes.
I know it can be hard to get volunteer roles, but it is still not the same as working. The fact that you are paid as an employee (even if you're just doing a minimum wage job) makes a huge difference.
I understand the point you are making and I do agree with it to an extent.
However, I would argue that doing a respectable subject (a traditional one, humanities or science-based) at a decent University is not a waste of time. Like a previous poster said, at the age of 18 you are free of responsibilities and it's certainly more convenient to undertake a degree at this age when you're not trying to hold down a job, bills, kids etc…
Let's face it, if you're academic and you have the ability to go to a good Uni and don't, it's a bit of a waste.
I know that many grads come out of Uni and go into menial jobs, but this is not the end of the line. Many of my teachers had different jobs after graduating before they decided to have a change in career path and take a PGCE, because they already had their undergraduate degree in place they only had to spend a year doing this as opposed to doing three years of undergraduate study plus another year doing a PGCE.
Many kids have the wrong attitude towards Uni, not taking out any real world experience so when they graduate they have nothing. What counts to an employer is a well-rounded person, i.e someone with a degree, work experience (or even better, a dedication to a paid job for a number of years) and enthusiasm.
I have just started my first year at a Russell Group Uni and I am commuting from home, keeping my retail job which I have had since I was 16. As someone my school put forward for Oxbridge entry, I had exactly the same view as you had in year 12 and 13, and I didn't apply for University. I was disillusioned with the whole world of academia and University study, especially with a working-class family who didn't agree with it. I flunked my A Levels, and I was very, very lucky to come out with the grades that I did and absolutely staggered that I got accepted on my first application through clearing.
There are many people that I work with in retail now in their late 20s who regret not working harder at school and going into HE because, yes, they've moved out of home, become financially independent, some have kids, which of course, yes, is good, but now have no parents to support them and too many responsibilites to 'risk' taking time out of work for the chance of doing something better. Because higher education offers you a chance,
if nothing else.
It's great that you're taking a gap year but don't fall into the trap believing that in the end you're going to be better off than your peers that went to Uni. You may be better off for 3-5 years whilst they're slumming it at Uni, but once they've graduated they have the degree behind them, and many do go into better jobs, as like you said, graduating gets you in higher. Even those that go into the same menial job you may be in, they have more ability to progress through the higher positions in that workplace, or that job may just be temporary as they apply for yearly graduate fast streams, or save up to do further study and qualify as something else. Finding jobs is harder today so there is nothing wrong with working somewhere menial for a few years while they look for somewhere else… also, there is nothing wrong with them staying in that job if they like it. But remember, whilst they are now setting up their lives, yours is already established. But if you want to progress, it's going to be very difficult, because how are you going to support yourself through a degree? At least those that went to Uni had a chance, and they still have a chance, because they still have a degree, and will have it for the rest of their life.
Remember that, all you do by going into work instead of University is growing up three years earlier than everyone else.
However, I would argue that doing a respectable subject (a traditional one, humanities or science-based) at a decent University is not a waste of time. Like a previous poster said, at the age of 18 you are free of responsibilities and it's certainly more convenient to undertake a degree at this age when you're not trying to hold down a job, bills, kids etc…
Let's face it, if you're academic and you have the ability to go to a good Uni and don't, it's a bit of a waste.
I know that many grads come out of Uni and go into menial jobs, but this is not the end of the line. Many of my teachers had different jobs after graduating before they decided to have a change in career path and take a PGCE, because they already had their undergraduate degree in place they only had to spend a year doing this as opposed to doing three years of undergraduate study plus another year doing a PGCE.
Many kids have the wrong attitude towards Uni, not taking out any real world experience so when they graduate they have nothing. What counts to an employer is a well-rounded person, i.e someone with a degree, work experience (or even better, a dedication to a paid job for a number of years) and enthusiasm.
I have just started my first year at a Russell Group Uni and I am commuting from home, keeping my retail job which I have had since I was 16. As someone my school put forward for Oxbridge entry, I had exactly the same view as you had in year 12 and 13, and I didn't apply for University. I was disillusioned with the whole world of academia and University study, especially with a working-class family who didn't agree with it. I flunked my A Levels, and I was very, very lucky to come out with the grades that I did and absolutely staggered that I got accepted on my first application through clearing.
There are many people that I work with in retail now in their late 20s who regret not working harder at school and going into HE because, yes, they've moved out of home, become financially independent, some have kids, which of course, yes, is good, but now have no parents to support them and too many responsibilites to 'risk' taking time out of work for the chance of doing something better. Because higher education offers you a chance,
if nothing else.
It's great that you're taking a gap year but don't fall into the trap believing that in the end you're going to be better off than your peers that went to Uni. You may be better off for 3-5 years whilst they're slumming it at Uni, but once they've graduated they have the degree behind them, and many do go into better jobs, as like you said, graduating gets you in higher. Even those that go into the same menial job you may be in, they have more ability to progress through the higher positions in that workplace, or that job may just be temporary as they apply for yearly graduate fast streams, or save up to do further study and qualify as something else. Finding jobs is harder today so there is nothing wrong with working somewhere menial for a few years while they look for somewhere else… also, there is nothing wrong with them staying in that job if they like it. But remember, whilst they are now setting up their lives, yours is already established. But if you want to progress, it's going to be very difficult, because how are you going to support yourself through a degree? At least those that went to Uni had a chance, and they still have a chance, because they still have a degree, and will have it for the rest of their life.
Remember that, all you do by going into work instead of University is growing up three years earlier than everyone else.
(edited 9 years ago)
I agree, in my school it was expected that you would go to uni and so a lot of people just end up doing a course they don't particularly enjoy with no particular plan because it is the done thing. Friends of mine who ended up going into work or apprenticeships are doing pretty well for themselves already, and aren't massively in debt.
I can accept people studying subjects they enjoy though, it doesn't make sense career wise but that isn't the only thing that matters.
I can accept people studying subjects they enjoy though, it doesn't make sense career wise but that isn't the only thing that matters.
I am a Math Student but I agree with the OP 100%. For the aspiring X career a degree is necessary but otherwise, it might be better to go another route i.e experience>institutionalised edication. Also keep in mind that if you get work experience you will also learn useful skills but this does not necessarily hold true if you only study.
Based on the past 2 years since Uni started, I say experience on my feet over my degree any day. Yet again, a good amount of life experience can be gathered if you go Uni. I'm not one of those students who goes just to get pissed and be an idiot. So ergo, Uni is useful if you make it useful...
Based on the past 2 years since Uni started, I say experience on my feet over my degree any day. Yet again, a good amount of life experience can be gathered if you go Uni. I'm not one of those students who goes just to get pissed and be an idiot. So ergo, Uni is useful if you make it useful...
[QUOTE=flutterby-x303;51650943 I know employers who don't like giving graduates from top universities a job because they are often dull lifeless people who see studying as the only important thing in life and they have no personality. Where as People who have done a variety of courses and travelled and met people are a lot more interesting and communicate with other employers and colleagues better.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't particularly agree with this. This depends on the person of course, not on the uni and you can obviously do or be both. However, I was in the same position where I thought I had to go to uni after sixth form and they sort of drilled it into us. I wish I had done more research about gap years at the time etc. I would have rather lived abroad for a year, learning a new language or something like that haha but I guess costs would have been an issue.I study international relations and although I was quite passionate about politics when I first started uni I'm not passionate about it anymore and I'm more open minded about what I want to do after uni. With that being said international relations is still a broad subject and gives me transferable skills for different career paths. I definitely don't regret going to uni. I can still do internships to see what suits me and without the uni I wouldn't have the chance to study abroad. Universities do offer students a lot of opportunities that wouldn't be available otherwise but this obviously depends on whether the student takes them.
On another note with the whole debt thing, I don't understand what the big issue is. Its not like we have to pay it upfront in one whole sum lool.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't particularly agree with this. This depends on the person of course, not on the uni and you can obviously do or be both. However, I was in the same position where I thought I had to go to uni after sixth form and they sort of drilled it into us. I wish I had done more research about gap years at the time etc. I would have rather lived abroad for a year, learning a new language or something like that haha but I guess costs would have been an issue.I study international relations and although I was quite passionate about politics when I first started uni I'm not passionate about it anymore and I'm more open minded about what I want to do after uni. With that being said international relations is still a broad subject and gives me transferable skills for different career paths. I definitely don't regret going to uni. I can still do internships to see what suits me and without the uni I wouldn't have the chance to study abroad. Universities do offer students a lot of opportunities that wouldn't be available otherwise but this obviously depends on whether the student takes them.
On another note with the whole debt thing, I don't understand what the big issue is. Its not like we have to pay it upfront in one whole sum lool.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by flutterby-x303
So I went to a pirate school from the age of 11 till I was 18. In sixth form everything was very academic and uni orientated. You were going to uni after school, no question really. I just wanted to let you all know of my background because despite getting good A levels and the importance of "uni" drummed into my head, I am not all that supportive of it.
I don't think university is for everyone even people who say "I want to go".
(By the way this whole conversation excludes people who NEED a degree ie medics accountants etc)
The reason why I say this is because firstly, even if you get a degree there is no guarantee of a job. You might come out of a Russell group uni with a history degree and end up having to work in a coffee shop. The time it takes for a graduate to actually get a stable job might take a few years. Where as people who finish their a levels and start "working their way up" at the age of 18 could end up in a job just as good as if not better than graduates who are in their first employment.
I think people who don't really know what they want to do, or people who want to go into retail or property or even banking etc should seriously consider whether is worth going to uni, getting into debt and not necessarily getting a job straight after graduating or if it's best to do short courses in a variety of things to build up a repertoire of experience you can add to your cv.
Also for people who don't know what they want to do/study, short courses are in my opinion the best way to figure out things.
No one wants to spend three years studying for a degree they may end up hating! And I totally disagree with people who go to uni for the experience. It's not worth the money. At the moment I am on the fence with people who are passionate for a particular subject but don't know what job to get in the long run, because it's not a waste to go to uni if you are going to be studying something you really enjoy, but I do think that doing short courses and getting a job going from the age of 18 is the best way to get real life experience and start on the job ladder.
I am on a year off trying to get work etc and I was seriously thinking of applying to uni for next year. I was thinking a Russell group for sure and to study biochemistry. I do like the sciences but can never see myself working in a lab etc. I think getting a job and working my way up is the best option for me and I think that people nowadays seem to have it in their heads that uni is the only option. Yes it's great for some who actually need the degree but 17/18 year olds should really be considering "what's best for me and the type of job I want" because apprenticeships etc can be much more beneficial. I know employers who don't like giving graduates from top universities a job because they are often dull lifeless people who see studying as the only important thing in life and they have no personality. Where as People who have done a variety of courses and travelled and met people are a lot more interesting and communicate with other employers and colleagues better.
I would like to hear your thoughts although posting this on the student room will probably only yield replies that disagree with my opinion but I am willing to debate.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't think university is for everyone even people who say "I want to go".
(By the way this whole conversation excludes people who NEED a degree ie medics accountants etc)
The reason why I say this is because firstly, even if you get a degree there is no guarantee of a job. You might come out of a Russell group uni with a history degree and end up having to work in a coffee shop. The time it takes for a graduate to actually get a stable job might take a few years. Where as people who finish their a levels and start "working their way up" at the age of 18 could end up in a job just as good as if not better than graduates who are in their first employment.
I think people who don't really know what they want to do, or people who want to go into retail or property or even banking etc should seriously consider whether is worth going to uni, getting into debt and not necessarily getting a job straight after graduating or if it's best to do short courses in a variety of things to build up a repertoire of experience you can add to your cv.
Also for people who don't know what they want to do/study, short courses are in my opinion the best way to figure out things.
No one wants to spend three years studying for a degree they may end up hating! And I totally disagree with people who go to uni for the experience. It's not worth the money. At the moment I am on the fence with people who are passionate for a particular subject but don't know what job to get in the long run, because it's not a waste to go to uni if you are going to be studying something you really enjoy, but I do think that doing short courses and getting a job going from the age of 18 is the best way to get real life experience and start on the job ladder.
I am on a year off trying to get work etc and I was seriously thinking of applying to uni for next year. I was thinking a Russell group for sure and to study biochemistry. I do like the sciences but can never see myself working in a lab etc. I think getting a job and working my way up is the best option for me and I think that people nowadays seem to have it in their heads that uni is the only option. Yes it's great for some who actually need the degree but 17/18 year olds should really be considering "what's best for me and the type of job I want" because apprenticeships etc can be much more beneficial. I know employers who don't like giving graduates from top universities a job because they are often dull lifeless people who see studying as the only important thing in life and they have no personality. Where as People who have done a variety of courses and travelled and met people are a lot more interesting and communicate with other employers and colleagues better.
I would like to hear your thoughts although posting this on the student room will probably only yield replies that disagree with my opinion but I am willing to debate.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I am in this situation right now.
Due to anxiety/depression I couldn't cope with my A levels, so I failed them terribly and came out with very low grades.
However I can still go to university if I do a foundation year.
I could do engineering, but I feel that I don't really like engineering and would basically do it for the career prospects rather than out of interest. So if I did that, I would probably drop out and fail the course.
Even if I passed the degree, engineering is a difficult job and I can't see myself doing it for the rest of my life just for the job security.
After my "phase" with engineering, I didn't know what to study for a while. And so I considered every thing from chemistry, accounting and law. But it would be the exact same problem with engineering, I don't have enough interest in them to keep me studying those subjects for 3 years.
What does mainly interest me is psychology, which is what I want to study. But from what I have read on TSR, psychology is very competitive and hard to get into at a postgraduate level. So I might do the psychology degree, but a career in psychology as say a psychotherapist seems quite unlikely, unless I stick at it, get enough experience and handle the application rejections.
Other than that I had thought about doing apprenticeships, but I find them too restrictive. I have a gut feeling that the companies would like you to stay with them as long as possible, and want to try to keep you there with them. Besides, I have terrible A level grades, so i doubt they would take me on anyway?
I have thought about just working a regular generic job for a while, but I wouldn't want to do this for long. And I pretty much feel like I want to study psychology, or take a gap year to think twice about it and maybe find something else to study?
I feel stuck in this situation at the moment and don't really know what to do?
I had the idea of working abroad, or doing postgraduate abroad where it would be less competitive, but I am skeptical about this too.
EDIT:
Besides, most of my sixth form has gone off into university too. And like you, when I was there it almost seemed as if university was the only thing you could do at sixth form? Apprenticeships were looked down upon, and everything was geared towards ucas and personal statements.
And a lot of my friends are studying subjects that they know are oversubscribed and competitive, but I don't think they mind the debt because they argue that they won't have to pay it back unless they earn over a certain threshold?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by yo radical one
I went to a pirate school as well
Actually I boarded
Actually I boarded
I hear they're expensive. 200 doubloons a term. Shiver me timbers.
Original post by abbiemac
I think that people who actually want to go to Uni should be able to and shouldn't be discouraged, but people who are just going for the 'experience' should be educated about other ways into employment.
But what about the career prospects and debt when they graduate though?
Since there is an overwhelming saturation of graduates in the job market, unless you study something vocational, I think it would be very tough to find employment after you graduate?
Keep in mind that I would like to study psychology, but I am having second doubts about it at the moment. Since any sort of psychology training at a postgraduate level is very competitive from what I have heard on TSR.
Original post by Daftpunker
Likewise at my school to suggest that you were thinking of doing anything after A Levels other than University was like admitting to commiting genocide.
I question does the education system and institutions care about your future or do they care about being able to claim thay 100% of our students (or as high as possible) go on to university. The later is my suspect.
I question does the education system and institutions care about your future or do they care about being able to claim thay 100% of our students (or as high as possible) go on to university. The later is my suspect.
Yup, me too.
They really drummed into us that without going to university, you're doomed to unemployment and McDonalds.
I progressed at two things really at uni. One how to play pool. Two how to drink. My course was very poorly run and relied on conning people into thinking that without the qualification you will get no where. Yes I have a chip on my shoulder about uni - actually I have the chips, burger and Onion Relish.
What degree is this by the way?
I want to study psychology with a foundation year, but I am having doubts about doing it now. Psychology is really the main degree I am interested in, and I can't really see myself studying anything else at the moment.
But since getting into any sort of postgraduate psychology training is ridiculously hard and competitive, this discourages me from doing psychology. And even makes me consider working or studying abroad where there is not an oversupply of graduates.
Also I have NO idea and still yet to hear crdible justification for degree program typically taking 3 years. .
Credible justification: C.R.E.A.M.
Original post by miser
Before I went to university I didn't think I was particularly advantaged, except that I was interested in what I was studying and that that helped me do well. I pretty much held the view that close to anyone who applied themselves could get through a standard degree.
I now think that was naive. At uni I met a lot of people who had trouble with the material, and suddenly I realised a lot of people aren't academically capable to the standard a degree demands. For whatever reason, a lot of people can't hack it, even if they apply themselves.
Of those people who can get a degree, if we subtract the number of them who don't need/want one, then are we left with a minority of people? It really wouldn't surprise me if we were. Pirate schools notwithstanding.
I now think that was naive. At uni I met a lot of people who had trouble with the material, and suddenly I realised a lot of people aren't academically capable to the standard a degree demands. For whatever reason, a lot of people can't hack it, even if they apply themselves.
Of those people who can get a degree, if we subtract the number of them who don't need/want one, then are we left with a minority of people? It really wouldn't surprise me if we were. Pirate schools notwithstanding.
Do you think people should get their degrees and then look for work abroad in other countries where there are less graduates, and hence less competition for jobs?
At least I know in the Netherlands, the vast majority of students don't go to university.
Original post by BlueSheep32
Definitely agree with this. I think going to uni is fair enough if you want to improve your prospects by getting a good degree, or if you want to go into a specific career that requires a certain degree, or you're really passionate about a certain subject, but if you're just going to spend three years partying and procrastinating and really don't care about your course, or if you're not prepared to work hard to get a good degree, then you should be encouraged to look at other options. I don't have a lot of time for people who go to uni and then spend most of their time doing nothing and wonder why they didn't come out with a good degree - you're paying for it, so why not work hard and get your money's worth?
Everyone has a different skill set, and some people are definitely suited to going to university whereas others are not and teachers and careers advisers shouldn't be afraid to tell them that, as long as they let them know about what else they can do. I went to a grammar school where you were pretty much expected to go to uni and the few people who didn't want to didn't get very good careers advice.
University fees are as high as they are now because too many people were encouraged to go to uni when they shouldn't have been and it's now seen almost as a rite of passage in some circles whereas years ago tuition fees didn't exist because barely anyone went to uni. Some people who go to university now would be far better off just looking for employment, or apprenticeships, or suchlike, rather than going to uni and saddling themselves with debt and it being a waste because they still can't get a job or they just wasted 3 years doing nothing, but we live in a society where everyone is told they can go to uni if they really want to. That attitude was fine for a while, and it did encourage a lot of people who otherwise might not have considered it to go to university and make a better life for themselves, but it's now beginning to have a negative effect as it's making it harder for everyone who goes to university for the right reasons to find employment afterwards, and it's becoming more and more the case that companies prefer their potential graduate employees to have done postgrad courses which a lot of people can't afford to do.
Everyone has a different skill set, and some people are definitely suited to going to university whereas others are not and teachers and careers advisers shouldn't be afraid to tell them that, as long as they let them know about what else they can do. I went to a grammar school where you were pretty much expected to go to uni and the few people who didn't want to didn't get very good careers advice.
University fees are as high as they are now because too many people were encouraged to go to uni when they shouldn't have been and it's now seen almost as a rite of passage in some circles whereas years ago tuition fees didn't exist because barely anyone went to uni. Some people who go to university now would be far better off just looking for employment, or apprenticeships, or suchlike, rather than going to uni and saddling themselves with debt and it being a waste because they still can't get a job or they just wasted 3 years doing nothing, but we live in a society where everyone is told they can go to uni if they really want to. That attitude was fine for a while, and it did encourage a lot of people who otherwise might not have considered it to go to university and make a better life for themselves, but it's now beginning to have a negative effect as it's making it harder for everyone who goes to university for the right reasons to find employment afterwards, and it's becoming more and more the case that companies prefer their potential graduate employees to have done postgrad courses which a lot of people can't afford to do.
Very good overall response, I wish I had rep but I ran out :P
Also what do you think about taking your degree abroad where it's less competitive and there's less graduates?
Original post by somethingbeautiful
I can see both sides of this to be honest. At one point I would have agreed with you - in fact at one point I was resenting ever having gone to university.
I graduated from a Russell Group uni with a 2.i and ended up in retail on min wage. I realized that I'd gone to uni because I didn't really know what I wanted to do at 16/17/18 years old and so I did what I thought was right/sensible at the time. For me, it was a case of either leave 6th form and get any job at all - entry level stuff and still not know what I want to do with my life and then struggle to get back into education (it becomes more difficult as you get older and have bills to pay) OR go to uni while I was young, get an education, try to figure things out and hopefully in the process improve my job prospects. I did it with good intentions although, now, looking back I was very young, had barely experienced much real working life, had very little good advice from my school and was living in a deprived area where virtually no one went to uni. For me uni was the best option on the table - dole/min wage work IF I could get it or structure and education for 3 years.
I graduated from a Russell Group uni with a 2.i and ended up in retail on min wage. I realized that I'd gone to uni because I didn't really know what I wanted to do at 16/17/18 years old and so I did what I thought was right/sensible at the time. For me, it was a case of either leave 6th form and get any job at all - entry level stuff and still not know what I want to do with my life and then struggle to get back into education (it becomes more difficult as you get older and have bills to pay) OR go to uni while I was young, get an education, try to figure things out and hopefully in the process improve my job prospects. I did it with good intentions although, now, looking back I was very young, had barely experienced much real working life, had very little good advice from my school and was living in a deprived area where virtually no one went to uni. For me uni was the best option on the table - dole/min wage work IF I could get it or structure and education for 3 years.
I am in the exact situation now, it's almost as if I see myself in a mirror reading this.
That's why I was worried about not going to university, because I would be stuck with whatever job I could find, and then be stuck with the same employer for a very long time.
I want to go to university so that this would open up those graduate jobs later.
But now, at 24 years old, I only have to spend 1 more year studying for my post grad quali and build up experience in my field until I can have chartered status and apply for well paid roles.
If you want to, could you please tell me what you studied, as I want to make a judgement to see what types of degrees are employable, since I want to study psychology.
...if I didn't have my degree I'd be in a pretty bad situation quite honestly.
Wow
So what would you basically be stuck with minimum wage jobs for the rest of your life like those young hard working people you described earlier? And of course this all depends on even if you find employment in the first place, so lots of time would be spent on the dole. The UK is looking very dire to be honest.
Certain NVQs/apprenticeships are not necessary. In other words, you haven't locked yourself out of a career if you haven't done a certain apprenticeship but you have if you haven't got a degree (even in something non vocational - I'm willing to exapand on this but will leave it at that for the sake of brevity).
I want to study psychology at university, however I am so worried about how transferable the degree is once I am unable to enter into the psychology field?
You will lock yourself out of certain grad jobs if you don't have a degree -
simple as that. I can always take an NVQ in my spare time (in fact I have since leaving uni!). It's much more difficult to do a degree in your spare time once you're working full time...
I also heard that ucas points filter you out for most graduate schemes and jobs? So now I'm taking a gap year to resit my a levels to be safe, but also to get to better unis of course.
Just going by the demographic of this site, I find it hard to believe that the majority of TSR users have ever actually experienced much adult life and so a lot of the views expressed in this thread are hard to take very seriously. Until you've actually experienced life beyond education you will never truly understand the value of it.
Lool no offense to people on TSR, but do you know any forum where I could find more experienced and adult opinions?
Also I dropped the idea of doing an engineering degree merely for the career prospects, and went for something that interests me more, like psychology. I am sort of getting sick of people saying that the only worthwhile degrees are the vocational ones
But since postgraduate psychology is really competitive, I kinda scared to study psychology as it's already oversubscribed.
On the other hand I am scared of it being seen by employers as a"doss" subject. But I know that psychology will involve maths, biology and statistics, but I am not sure how transferable these are.
I am probably going to delay university again for a while to get better a level results and apply to better universities and think twice about my course choice, but I wills till apply to be safe.
So yeah, since psychology postgrad is very competitive in the uk, do you think I will have a lot more luck with being accepted for psychology postgraduate training abroad?
Also what about working abroad, where there's probably less competition and less graduates?
I know that i the Netherlands, the vast majority of students don't go to university?
Original post by nsolma1
Do you think people should get their degrees and then look for work abroad in other countries where there are less graduates, and hence less competition for jobs?
At least I know in the Netherlands, the vast majority of students don't go to university.
At least I know in the Netherlands, the vast majority of students don't go to university.
That's an interesting idea. I think there will be some incentive for people to do this. If work prospects in a person's home country are poor, I think migration rates tend to be higher.
Original post by miser
That's an interesting idea. I think there will be some incentive for people to do this. If work prospects in a person's home country are poor, I think migration rates tend to be higher.
Wow. How did you come up with this revolutionary theory?
Original post by anonwinner
Wow. How did you come up with this revolutionary theory?
Careful now, don't assume things are true just because you think they're obvious.
Original post by miser
Careful now, don't assume things are true just because you think they're obvious.
It's pretty common knowledge that if the supply of jobs falls in a certain place then people will move to a different place with more jobs
Original post by nsolma1
Due to anxiety/depression I couldn't cope with my A levels, so I failed them terribly and came out with very low grades.
Due to anxiety/depression I couldn't cope with my A levels, so I failed them terribly and came out with very low grades.
I had anxiety and depression yet came out with 3 A*s. That's not a very good excuse and certainly wouldn't be regarded as an extenuating circumstance.
But now, at 24 years old, I only have to spend 1 more year studying for my post grad quali and build up experience in my field until I can have chartered status and apply for well paid roles.
In your field that's fine. However, in my field which is the financial industry and a lot of other industries the fact that you will be 25 and your professional career experience is zero (please accept my apologies if this is wrong - I have skipped over a bit of the thread) - this will count against you.
No offence, but this sounds like a **** university/course. At Cambridge you are expected to do at least 40 hours independent studying a week excluding supervisions/lectures, etc. Finding your A Levels more challenging is a sure sign that the degree content just wasn't up to scratch and you wasted your time.
Sussex University - so top 20 in the country. I was "expected" to do 40 hours independant study as well. Did I NEED to do it to get 2:1 - in my view no and the fact I still got a 2:1 when I spent most of my time in the student bar and working in a part time job (as did a lot of people shows that)
4 maybe 5 essays a term that took about 6/7 hours each.
Contact time worked out at about £25 an hour which was nothing short of scandelous (and this the days of £3000 a year).
Original post by nsolma1
I am in the exact situation now, it's almost as if I see myself in a mirror reading this.
That's why I was worried about not going to university, because I would be stuck with whatever job I could find, and then be stuck with the same employer for a very long time.
I want to go to university so that this would open up those graduate jobs later.
If you want to, could you please tell me what you studied, as I want to make a judgement to see what types of degrees are employable, since I want to study psychology.
That's why I was worried about not going to university, because I would be stuck with whatever job I could find, and then be stuck with the same employer for a very long time.
I want to go to university so that this would open up those graduate jobs later.
If you want to, could you please tell me what you studied, as I want to make a judgement to see what types of degrees are employable, since I want to study psychology.
I studied Philosophy. I originally went to uni to study Law but switched when I realized I didn't want a Law career anymore - Law requires further study after the degree which I could not afford (then or now) and none of it guarantees a well paid career...plus I didn't think I'd be fulfilled by it.
I'd say this to you: non-vocational degrees will not guarantee anything (some vocational ones won't either) - once you have the degree there are so many other factors that will affect whether you get work or not (experience, contacts, locations, local labor market, recession etc). It's okay to go into it blind to a certain extent BUT don't stick your head in the sand for 3 years telling yourself that something will come up when you graduate/don't tell yourself that you'll finally realize what you want to do when you graduate. Things don't just 'come up' and in order to find out what you want to do you have to go out it into the world and experience working life - get experience in anything that interests you at all - you will lose nothing and gain a better understanding of what you could stand to do for 8+ hours a day, 5+ days a week for years to come (plus it improves your CV).
I've seen threads here on TSR where people try to compare the 'employability' of degrees and I find that it smacks of inexperience/lack of understanding of reality to be honest. In the world of employment it's not a case of 'you have a 2.i from a top uni, here's the job' - it does not work that way at all. The degree is just an element of the process - it's not the deciding factor.
Unless you are, for example, studying something like Law and are trying to get into certain high flying careers at top firms which are picky when it comes to university rankings (aka elitist) then the institution that you attended simply does not have any bearing whatsoever. I went to a top thirty and was stood in a dole queue a week after graduating...I wasn't a unique case.
Only one of my employers ever showed an interest in my degree. None of the others asked what my degree is in or what my final grade was. My current manager doesn't even know that I have a degree. Someone who is recruiting at Asda or wherever for a retail assistant role has no interest in what modules you studied at what university in which year of your degree. All they care is that you can talk to people, can take direction, can think independently, can solve problems without bothering them every ten minutes etc - same goes for call center managers, admin managers etc. Most of the people that I work with don't know what a '2.i' is - think back to when you did GCSEs, '2.i' didn't mean anything to you, you probably didn't know the difference between a BA/BSc - a lot of people in the working world didn't go to uni and they don't know what any of it means. It's a tough pill to swallow when you worked hard for that 2.i BA degree from a top 30 uni (and they don't know it's a top 30 either or what the relevance of league tables are). That's the 'real world'. It's not pleasant to realize it - but that is most definitely reality.
Grad schemes are a whole other thing too. Elitism and subject preference only matter depending on the industry. In other words, you're not going to get rejected from Aldi's grad scheme just because you didn't go to Oxford to study PPE. You can get on to decent schemes with a 2.i or 2.ii from a middle tier uni. But try applying to Ernst and Young from a bottom tier uni with a non-academic degree and I'd put money on an immediate rejection. It really depends on the industry/type of work and what their preferences are.
Original post by nsolma1
Wow
So what would you basically be stuck with minimum wage jobs for the rest of your life like those young hard working people you described earlier? And of course this all depends on even if you find employment in the first place, so lots of time would be spent on the dole. The UK is looking very dire to be honest.
Wow
So what would you basically be stuck with minimum wage jobs for the rest of your life like those young hard working people you described earlier? And of course this all depends on even if you find employment in the first place, so lots of time would be spent on the dole. The UK is looking very dire to be honest.
I believe so, yes unless I worked my way up into management roles but there's no way on earth I'd want management roles in the industries I've worked in. For example, my managers in my retail jobs had to deal with the customers that we couldn't deal with - extremely angry/rude people who wanted things that we has no authority to do such as refunds. They basically got paid more for dealing with awful people. I have no desire to make a career out of that/spend the rest of my life doing that.
My job doesn't pay a livable wage and the jobs that I apply to barely pay a livable wage - all have little to no progrssion. Anything above 17k is a 'good wage' in my eyes because I earn significantly less than that. My masters degree qualifies me for posts with a starting salary of 24K.
That's why I'm doing a postgrad qualification to get work which allows me to pay rent/bills/food and not have worry about how I'm going to survive from month to month.
I know people who graduated 2 years ago (in my cohort) and they are still unemployed. The work I do doesn't require a degree, it's minimum wage and it's not something I ever wanted to do - but it's paying for my Masters so right now it's simply a means to an end and I'd rather do this job than be on the dole.
We are in a double dip recession (apparently heading into a 3rd) and all of the businesses that you see on your high street/in your city center - whether they are retail or office based - they need people with skills and experience. They could not give less of a damn about a degree - they just want someone with people skills/admin skills who requires little training.
Those are the jobs you may have to take until you can get onto a grad scheme - not everyone is so lucky in their first round of applications. So get work experience. It looks better to employers than just a degree.
Original post by nsolma1
I want to study psychology at university, however I am so worried about how transferable the degree is once I am unable to enter into the psychology field?
I also heard that ucas points filter you out for most graduate schemes and jobs? So now I'm taking a gap year to resit my a levels to be safe, but also to get to better unis of course.
I also heard that ucas points filter you out for most graduate schemes and jobs? So now I'm taking a gap year to resit my a levels to be safe, but also to get to better unis of course.
I don't want to give you false hope but at the same time I don't want to discourage you. I worked in McDonalds and my manager had a Law degree, I worked in retail and my manager had an Art degree, in my last job my colleague (same position as me - 'sales associate') had a psychology degree. The managers were earning fairly good money (more than 20k but less than 30k) but they hated their jobs, they didn't got to Art/Law school to end up pulling 12 hour shifts dealing angry customers etc - the psychology grad could have move through the ranks to get that salary but he didn't want to be a retail manager...nor did I. Life forces you to make difficult decisions though - work in retail management on 26K and have a house/car/independence or stay as a sales associate on 11K, live with your parents and and keep thinking about what else you could do which won't 'waste' your degree (while remaining stagnant)....it's hard.
Original post by nsolma1
Lool no offense to people on TSR, but do you know any forum where I could find more experienced and adult opinions?
Not really, other than talking to older grads - maybe just look through the careers/employment forum and post grad threads to see some examples of what it's like after graduation.
Original post by nsolma1
Also I dropped the idea of doing an engineering degree merely for the career prospects, and went for something that interests me more, like psychology. I am sort of getting sick of people saying that the only worthwhile degrees are the vocational ones
But since postgraduate psychology is really competitive, I kinda scared to study psychology as it's already oversubscribed.
On the other hand I am scared of it being seen by employers as a"doss" subject. But I know that psychology will involve maths, biology and statistics, but I am not sure how transferable these are.
I am probably going to delay university again for a while to get better a level results and apply to better universities and think twice about my course choice, but I wills till apply to be safe.
So yeah, since psychology postgrad is very competitive in the uk, do you think I will have a lot more luck with being accepted for psychology postgraduate training abroad?
Also what about working abroad, where there's probably less competition and less graduates?
I know that i the Netherlands, the vast majority of students don't go to university?
But since postgraduate psychology is really competitive, I kinda scared to study psychology as it's already oversubscribed.
On the other hand I am scared of it being seen by employers as a"doss" subject. But I know that psychology will involve maths, biology and statistics, but I am not sure how transferable these are.
I am probably going to delay university again for a while to get better a level results and apply to better universities and think twice about my course choice, but I wills till apply to be safe.
So yeah, since psychology postgrad is very competitive in the uk, do you think I will have a lot more luck with being accepted for psychology postgraduate training abroad?
Also what about working abroad, where there's probably less competition and less graduates?
I know that i the Netherlands, the vast majority of students don't go to university?
Regarding working abroad - I've been considering it myself and 2 of my uni friends have gone and done it. Problem is you need to know that there is definitely (long term) work out there. One of them went away and got entry level work because they couldn't even get that here in the UK in 2012 - then their visa ran out and now they are back in the UK and they have no career and they're back in the same situation as when they graduated. It's worth it if you get a job lined up - but it's risky if you just go and see what's available or get a job lined up that is dead end and unskilled.
Regarding the employability of your degree - it depends what you want to do after graduation as I've said earlier in this post. Don't completely rule options out due to them being 'competitive' - everything is - it's hard to even get a min wage job. Just pursue what interest you regardless of competition.
My general advice to you/things to ask yourself:
1. Do what you enjoy (it will help with perseverance during and after your degree)
2. If you are thinking about grad schemes - research them NOW. What grad schemes? Which employers? Which sector (there are so many)? What type of work - most are desk jobs - is that what you want or do you want something else?
3. WORK EXPERIENCE - as much as you can. I'd say variety is best - try things out that interest you rather than getting 6 months work exp in a job that you think is 'okay'.
Try things for size.
4. Search a few jobs boards - look for work that you are aiming to do after graduating. Is it in demand? Are there jobs out there? Is the salary enough to live on?
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Opinions on SOAS?
- How manageable is 4 A-Levels and an EPQ?
- Durham Uni Worries - Pls help postgrads!
- Campus vs City unis
- Should I go on a break with my partner?
- Exeter or Warwick for a Finance BSc degree ?
- No rejection mail but unsucsessful on UCAS?
- Picking Uni for BA Graphic Design (Camberwell UAL/Loughborough University)
- Politics and Economics courses
- Masters vs Diploma: justifiable impact on opportunities as a self-employed therapist?
- Is Greenwich Uni worth it?
- Just how bad are SOAS protests and strikes? Did it affect you?
- In Person Cambridge Interviews
- I'm A Maths Student - Ask Me Anything
- Uni dilenma- Southampton
- The Dilemma of BTEC National Extended Diploma in Applied Science
- A level subjects
- Need some advice
- Do GCSE resits matter for Oxbridge?
- Was this a polite way of calling me plain/unattractive?
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
