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Making notes for the clinical years?

So a few friends and I were discussing the topic of making notes for clinical years. I'm currently in my third year, and I make notes and find them useful, however they are time consuming to make. A few of my friends don't make notes and just read Kumar and Clark. I'm wondering what everybody else's take is on this?
Original post by Nuttyneuron
So a few friends and I were discussing the topic of making notes for clinical years. I'm currently in my third year, and I make notes and find them useful, however they are time consuming to make. A few of my friends don't make notes and just read Kumar and Clark. I'm wondering what everybody else's take is on this?


During pre-clin I made lots and lots of typed notes. I tried this during the first few weeks of clinical medicine and I found it very time consuming, especially since I was getting back home later everyday and was much tireder than during pre-clin - I just didn't have the energy to be making reams of notes, none of which seemed to be going in.

Thing is, clinical medicine is less about trying to cram scientific concepts and more about gaining practical working knowledge to allow you to think and behave like a doctor. You gain much of this knowledge simply by showing up and doing the job i.e. from being on the wards, talking to patients, presenting to the juniors, clerking patients in A&E/AMU if there's nothing happening on your ward, asking your consultant questions in clinic, etc.

Believe it or not, you will subconsciously be learning and retaining a lot even if you don't realise it at the time. Learning by osmosis, as it were. It's all being stored away and over a period of months and years (especially if you keep seeing the same presenting complaints and management plans over and over again) it will eventually sink in. You don't need to make physical notes for this to happen.

Like your friends, I find it more helpful to see patients in the hospital and then do reading and online questions. I think K&C is way too wordy - the OHCM or Medicine at a Glance are really great and will give you all the knowledge you need. If you need to refresh your scientific knowledge then you can look back at your pre-clinical notes, but this phase of the course should be less about making reams of notes and more about observing what happens on a day to day basis on the ward and putting it into practice. It's more of an apprenticeship than a traditional degree at this point.

I found it very disconcerting to suddenly change tack from making notes to simply coming home and reading up on what I'd seen throughout the day, but ask yourself this, are your notes actually going in? For the amount of effort which you put into making them, are they helping you? If so, then carry on as you are, but if not, there's no harm in trying another approach.
Reply 2
Original post by Democracy
During pre-clin I made lots and lots of typed notes. I tried this during the first few weeks of clinical medicine and I found it very time consuming, especially since I was getting back home later everyday and was much tireder than during pre-clin - I just didn't have the energy to be making reams of notes, none of which seemed to be going in.

Thing is, clinical medicine is less about trying to cram scientific concepts and more about gaining practical working knowledge to allow you to think and behave like a doctor. You gain much of this knowledge simply by showing up and doing the job i.e. from being on the wards, talking to patients, presenting to the juniors, clerking patients in A&E/AMU if there's nothing happening on your ward, asking your consultant questions in clinic, etc.

Believe it or not, you will subconsciously be learning and retaining a lot even if you don't realise it at the time. Learning by osmosis, as it were. It's all being stored away and over a period of months and years (especially if you keep seeing the same presenting complaints and management plans over and over again) it will eventually sink in. You don't need to make physical notes for this to happen.

Like your friends, I find it more helpful to see patients in the hospital and then do reading and online questions. I think K&C is way too wordy - the OHCM or Medicine at a Glance are really great and will give you all the knowledge you need. If you need to refresh your scientific knowledge then you can look back at your pre-clinical notes, but this phase of the course should be less about making reams of notes and more about observing what happens on a day to day basis on the ward and putting it into practice. It's more of an apprenticeship than a traditional degree at this point.

I found it very disconcerting to suddenly change tack from making notes to simply coming home and reading up on what I'd seen throughout the day, but ask yourself this, are your notes actually going in? For the amount of effort which you put into making them, are they helping you? If so, then carry on as you are, but if not, there's no harm in trying another approach.


Thanks for that, it was very helpful! I do pick up a lot on the wards and with reading. I think making notes has just been a lifelong habit for me which is hard to give up but I'm coming to the realisation that I spend more time making notes than taking in information if that makes sense...so I think I'm going to take your advice and try a different approach!
Original post by Nuttyneuron
Thanks for that, it was very helpful! I do pick up a lot on the wards and with reading. I think making notes has just been a lifelong habit for me which is hard to give up but I'm coming to the realisation that I spend more time making notes than taking in information if that makes sense...so I think I'm going to take your advice and try a different approach!


I felt exactly the same way - I'd been making notes since forever and it felt very odd to abandon a strategy which had been working for me for many years.

But if I was honest with myself, it wasn't actually adding anything to my knowledge. Much better to come home, take a few hours break then read up on what you've seen during the day. Online question banks are really good in the run-up to exams too.
I made notes for SOME things in 3rd year - mainly cardiology (because I had to go back to understand the physiology as I'd forgotten it after intercalating) and endocrinology and renal (because I needed to go back and understand normal homeostasis etc.). I think that was it for third year (our general medicine/general surgery year). Everything else, I just read about/answered questions. Democracy is spot on about spending time on placement - useful for third year and for finals revision in final year. Doing 3rd year properly makes things so much easier in final year.

For our speciality year (4th year), I only really made notes for neurology (because I wanted to go back to learn some clinically relevant neuroanatomy), O+G (the main bits really like gynaeoncology, problems in early pregnancy/labour/post partum etc) and Paediatrics (again the main things like respiratory infections, paediatric gastro, etc.). I didn't make notes on any of the nitty gritty stuff. Besides that, I just read a lot and worked through past questions.

Point is, I don't think its a hard and fast rule that notes either work/don't work in clinical years - I do however think they tend to be less helpful in clinical than preclinical. Everyone is different. And if truth be told, making notes may only really help for some specialities/topics and not everything (e.g. making notes on psychiatry would have been pointless for me - the PRN was pretty much in note form anyway. Ditto for sexual health - I could just read about it or sit in on a couple of clinics).
I made notes from the OHCM and supplemented them with facts from the Questionbanks. It's useful for me to make notes firstly to cement my understanding, secondly to make sure I've covered everything (lots of stuff doesn't come up on the wards but will pop up in exams) and thirdly because I found clinics a bit vague in terms of lots of little teaching sessions giving you lots of little gems of information which can get lost if you don't try to put them all in one place and piece them together.

It is horses for courses though. Some people reckon they can do it all through clerking and supplement it with the odd bit of reading up, whereas I always found clerking was the supplement to my personal learning, rather than the other way around! If you do both, you're set.
Original post by seaholme
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Agreed. Call me old fashioned but there is no substitute for writing or typing up your own notes if your goal is to imbibe as much information as possible. I'm under no illusions that my method of learning is extremely labour intensive and will most likely result in little to no improvement in OSCE performance but when it comes to MCQ and written exams I just couldn't approach them in any other way.

Besides, I'm playing the long game. Membership exams are full of knowledge taken straight from a textbook. If you can somehow derive that from sitting in clinic, fine. I envy you.
Reply 7
I do a bit of both. Mainly ward. Then, I limit my notes to less than 15 pages for each specialty; this consolidate my ward learning and clear any gaps for the most common conditions. For each condition, I summarise the pathophysiology in usually one line and no more than three lines. I don't have to spend too much time making notes.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 8
You have to find what works for you. I need thorough notes I've written myself to the learning objectives to study from. Others don't. It's super time consuming but it works well for me so I consider it a worthwhile investment of time.

I almost exclusively use oxford clinical handbook / oxford book for that specialty + BMJ best practice + patient.co.uk
(edited 9 years ago)
What question banks do people use as well for clinicals, mainly aimed at 3rd years?
I've been googling MCQ's but reading some of them make me want to cry a little bit with what they are asking (probably as its for finals etc).
Original post by lcsurfer
What question banks do people use as well for clinicals, mainly aimed at 3rd years?
I've been googling MCQ's but reading some of them make me want to cry a little bit with what they are asking (probably as its for finals etc).


Highly recommend passmedicine.com
Original post by seaholme
Highly recommend passmedicine.com


Hint: it will still make you cry. :bawling:
Original post by WackyJun
Hint: it will still make you cry. :bawling:


Can confirm. Self-confidence took a severe battering in the first few weeks of using Passmedicine :bawling:
Reply 13
Original post by lcsurfer
What question banks do people use as well for clinicals, mainly aimed at 3rd years?
I've been googling MCQ's but reading some of them make me want to cry a little bit with what they are asking (probably as its for finals etc).


Would definitely recommend passmedicine. The explanations for each question are very thorough, and you'll find yourself learning a lot just by reading through each explanation.
Reply 14
many people seem to struggle with passmedicine which I find bizarre because it's quite straightforward, but I agree it is probably the best to use because the explanations are good, also most answers are derived from their explanations so you get to recognise patterns and it sticks in better. PassTest very basic use for 3rd-4th year .. if you want a challenge BMJ onexamination is the one, tho they have a lot of true/false questions which I feel are pointless
So I gave Passmedicine a try today and it has exceeded my expectations. However, i've exhausted all of my ophthalmology questions whilst on revision mode. Does this mean I can no longer access them again?

edit: scrap that, I need to learn to read.
(edited 9 years ago)
Thanks for all the input guys 😊 I've cut down my note making to a page per topic and for some topics none, and I feel that it's working a lot better than my previous extensive note making thankfully!


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