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Apartheid in Palestine... Worse than South Africa

Hello there
I've just returned from Palestine and visited a lot of areas. Whilst I was there I met some South Africans also visited. Who said that the situation in Palestine was "childs play" compared to what happened in South Africa during Apartheid. And that to say that what was happening in Palestine was not as bad as apartheid was in South Africa is to a disservice to the Palestinians. All these people are black South Africans of varying ages and varying locations in South Africa, some who were active against apartheid. Was just wondering how those who are Pro-Israel can defend Israeli actions.

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Reply 1

she

you're contradicting yourself...

Reply 2

Longshoredrift80

It's a ridiculous and baseless comparison, end of. Like a myriad of other terms and slanders, "apartheid" is pathetically thrown around by the anti-Israel crowd in order to try and stir up unwarranted anti-Israeli sentiment by association with a universally despised concept such as apartheid. It's simply deceit and utterly unfair demonisation to make the comparison, there are no other words for it - it's low, even by the standards of the anti-Israel crowd. Israel's actions are nothing of the sort - it affords its citizens (irrespective of colour or race) equal rights - much more so than any Arab or Islamic country (if you want to see a more clear example of apartheid, try Saudi Arabia's discrimination against non-Muslims), and takes measures against the "palestinians" (who are not Israeli citizens and thus not entitled to be treated as such) a result of clear security needs (60 years of unrelenting Arab terrorism against Israel) - rather than any concern abour discriminating because of race or colour.
South Africa employed apartheid based on division of races. Israel does not practice discrimination in such a way - it's very Declaration of Independence makes it clear that all are welcome who wish to live in peace.
To compare the "palestinians" - a manufactured "nation" who are not Israelis (as compared to the Blacks who were South Africans) and have consistently supported terrorism against Israel and rejected its very existence, to the position of South African blacks is entirely insupportable on any real comparative level. Furthermore, to say it's "child's play" would indicate it's not on the same level, i.e. NOTHING in comparison to South Africa - which would actually be accurate.
Now, crawl back to your hole.

Reply 3

Giliwoo

This isn't apartheid, and no, it isn't near the same as Apartheid South Africa. To compare the two situations so carelessly is to make light of something very grave.

Reply 4

parkerpen

These South Africans do though? Surely having lived through apartheid they are in a position to compare the two

Reply 5

ForeverIsMyName

parkerpen

These South Africans do though? Surely having lived through apartheid they are in a position to compare the two

Yes, if it was apartheid they would be in a position to make a comparison. However it has been demonstrated as inaccurate to refer to it as apartheid, simply because it isn't.

Reply 6

The face of Jacob

There's no such thing as "Palestine"!

And anyway, in the last couple of week look how much Palestinians were killed by Palestinians:

11 Palestinian were killed, 150 wounded in internal riots

Eleven Palestinians were killed and more than 150 were wounded in fierce clashes that erupted between supporters of Hamas and Fatah over the past 48 hours in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. Full article inside

Al-Quds Brigades: We killed 4 collaborators

Islamic Jihad's military wing reports that gunmen belonging to group kidnapped, murdered four Palestinians who aided Israel as part of IDF operation in Beit Hanoun. Meanwhile, PRC spokesman sends message to Gilad Shalit's family through Ynet: 'Foolish Olmert is endangering your son through these operations' Full article inside

Gaza: Masked gunmen kill top official, 4 guards

Masked Palestinian gunmen killed a top intelligence official loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah and four of his bodyguards in Gaza City not far from PM Haniyeh's home

Masked Palestinian gunmen killed a top intelligence official loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah and four of his bodyguards in a shooting on Friday near the Gaza home of Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, residents said. Full article inside

6 Palestinians killed in Jericho prison

Gunmen disguised as police officers infiltrate prison, assassinate prisoners suspected of collaborating with Israel

Security sources in the West Bank said that Palestinian gunmen dressed in police uniforms on Friday broke into a prison in the West Bank city of Jericho and shot dead six Palestinian inmates.

Ynet has learned that the gunmen were looking to avenge the death of two activists, residents of Nablus, who were assassinated by the IDF a few years ago. Some of those incarcerated in the prison are suspected of cooperating with Israel in the assassinations, while other prisoners are suspected of attacking the gunmen’s family members in response to the execution of collaborators’ relatives. Full article inside

Hamas member assassinated in Qalqilya

Masked assailants fire at Mohammed Odeh's car in village of Hableh; witnesses report assassins arrived in car with Israeli license plate. IDF: We have no knowledge of activity in area

Assassination ordered by Israel or continuation of violent clashes between Fatah and Hamas, threatening to turn into civil war? This was the question raised by Palestinians in the Qalqilya area Wednesday morning following the killing of a Hamas member as he left a mosque. Full article inside

Fatah activist killed by Hamas

Palestinian official's fears that a Friday entente between Fatah and Hamas to halt violent street confrontations would collapse materialized as a Fatah security officer was killed overnight Sunday in clashes between the two rival groups in the Gaza Strip. Full article inside

Four Palestinians were killed and many others were injured on Monday when gunmen opened fire on a civilian car traveling in the Rimal neighborhood in Gaza City.

Security officials said the incident is part of the ongoing power struggle between Hamas and Fatah, especially as three of the victims are the children of a senior Palestinian Authority intelligence officer. Full article inside

Gaza: Another judge shot to death
Four gunmen shoot judge affiliated with Hamas as tensions between Hamas, Fatah increase

Increasing anarchy in the Palestinian Authority: Wednesday morning, anonymous gunmen shot and killed a judge in Khan Younis, in southern Gaza. Full article inside

Haniyeh’s bodyguard killed, son wounded in shooting attack
Palestinian PM’s bodyguard killed, his son, another bodyguard and political advisor wounded when gunmen open fire at their convoy as it leaves Rafah crossing; PA official: Abbas; presidential guard responsible Full article inside

Gaza: 1 killed in attack on Presidential Guard base

A Palestinian Presidential Guard officer was killed and three guards were wounded when dozens of gunmen attacked their Gaza City training base before dawn on Sunday, just hours after Palestinian Authority Chairman President Mahmoud Abbas announced he would end the 11-month rule of Hamas by calling early elections, Palestinian medical officials reported. Full article inside

Youth shot in renewed Gaza violence

A 16-year-old boy was shot in the neck Monday morning in renewed gun battles between Hamas and Fatah in the middle of Gaza City.
About 10 masked Hamas gunmen, with rifles, grenades and rocket launchers, took shelter behind walls in downtown Gaza as they fought a dozen other gunmen from Fatah, witnesses said.
Full article inside

Day of battle in Gaza: 6 killed, 20 injured

Palestinian sources say man killed, several others injured in exchanges of fire between Palestinian police loyal to Hamas and Fatah fighters at Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital; later two Fatah members shot dead during exchanges of fire, lifeless bodies of two more abducted Fatah members found; failed attempt at Gaza governor's life Full article inside

Hamas, Fatah agree on ceasefire, but killings continue

New ceasefire agreement goes into force Tuesday night, gunmen begin retreating from Gaza streets. However, shootouts in town continue throughout night, two Fatah activists killed by Hamas members early Wednesday morning Full article inside

Gaza: Al-Zahar's bodyguard kidnapped; civilian killed
Violence in PA continues to surge: Fire exchanges between Hamas loyalists, relatives of two Fatah members who were killed this week result in death of bystander, abduction of foreign minister's bodyguard Full article inside

Beit Lahiya: Fatah member shot dead

Anonymous sniper kills 24-year-old al-Aqsa Brigades member in northern Gaza town; Fatah blames Hamas for attack

Fatah-Hamas clashes continue: A member of Fatah’s armed wing, the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades was shot to death Wednesday in the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya.

An anonymous sniper shot Alla Inaya, 24, killing him on the spot. The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades accused Hamas gunmen of killing the man.Following the shooting Inaya’s family members, along with al-Aqsa gunmen, blocked nearby roads and chanted anti-Hamas slogans. Full article inside

Gaza infighting: 4 killed, 10 kidnapped

Clashes between Hamas, Fatah result in abductions from both sides, including nephews of top PA security officer. Four Fatah loyalists, woman killed in gunbattles Full aritlce inside

Reply 7

danielf90

parkerpen

Does the fact that more palestinians have been killed THIS YEAR ALONE by more palestinians than they have israelis not say something about the state of apartheid?

Does the fact that more palestinians were killed by Jordan in 1971 than israelis have killed in their entire history not say something of the state of apartheid?

Does the fact that the palestinians are not even israeli citizens not explain that apartheid is a useless term when describing this situation?

Does the fact that there are vast, vast, vast numbers of very rich and propserous arabs (both christian AND muslim) not say something about the way israel treats non-Jewish people?

Does the fact that since 1967, the palestinians have been given rights FAR BEYOND what egypt and jordan gave them before israel conquered the territories, not say something about how much of an apartheid state israel is?
The west bank and Gaza have 9 universities between and it's citizens finally have a right to further education (just to give a short example as to how their lives have changed since 1967!)

Saudi Arabia, as well as treating non-Muslims dispicably, doesn't let palestinians gain citizenship. They explain that this is for their own good - so that their sense of nationhood and nationality (as a palestinian) is not diluted (=keep the miserable so they hate israel even more!)

Saying israel is an apartheid state is a ridiculous statement and totally unfounded!

[EDIT]: I wish people would tell me who they are when the give me some pos rep! lol

Reply 8

Longshoredrift80

parkerpen

These South Africans do though? Surely having lived through apartheid they are in a position to compare the two

My parents and grandparents lived through it and they see absolutely no comparison - What a certain bunch of people think has no relevance to the real comparison between the two. Fact is, the situations are nothing like each other and it's pathetic and deceitful to claim they are. Not to mention that a bunch of people touring round the territories are unlikely to be starting off from a neutral standpoint on the issue, are they now.

Reply 9

FunnyBones

I would be curious to know how many South Africans who have left to settle in Israel took their servants with them. Or if they wanted to or if they were allowed too anyway. Anyone here know?

It, in both cases, is about "us" and "them". And whilst it is true that Palestinians kill more Palestinians (proving what?) it is, and always was, true the South African blacks killed more South African blacks. Something the previous regime knew well.

Reply 10

Longshoredrift80

FunnyBones

It, in both cases, is about "us" and "them".

So? Virtually everything on Earth is about "us" and "them". Sporting events, political contests, the music charts, wars. Just because one thing is "us" and "them" and another is too, does not mean they are comparable.

FunnyBones

And whilst it is true that Palestinians kill more Palestinians (proving what?) it is, and always was, true the South African blacks killed more South African blacks.

Once again, that doesn't constitute a comparison.

Simply put, you're getting very close to the type of reasoning that makes all vegetarians like Hitler, because he was a vegetarian. Just because two things have common features doesn't mean they are comparable in any valid or meaningful way.

Reply 11

lamenter

Wow that was quick. It took you guys only couple of hours to deny the existence of the Palestinians. Please tell me where these magical make belief Arabs came from. I'd like to know :smile:

. I need my intelligence insulted by some Zionist propaganda.

Reply 12

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

Tibia

Wow that was quick. It took you guys only couple of hours to deny the existence of the Palestinians.

Can you quote that, I can't find it.

Anyway, there is such a place (thing) as Palestine. It's just not a country, Jacob.

Reply 13

Longshoredrift80

Tibia

It took you guys only couple of hours to deny the existence of the Palestinians.

They may exist today, that doesn't change the fact that they are not a "nation" or "people" and do not have a history or a homeland, but are rather a construct of the 1960's and the Arab battle against Israel's existence.

Tibia

Please tell me where these magical make belief Arabs came from. I'd like to know :smile:

The same place as historic blood libels, the "Jenin massacre", the poisoned sweet accusations and every other slander the Arab world invents against Israel and Jews - the imagination, deceit and disrespect for truth endemic in the Arab world.

Reply 14

ForeverIsMyName

JonathanH

They may exist today, that doesn't change the fact that they are not a "nation" or "people"

I thought the point was that they are a nation and/or people? That seems to me to be what muddies the waters a little bit here, because the people who describe themselves as Palestinians do identify with each other and that's what makes them a nation (King '06).

Reply 15

Longshoredrift80

By that definition of "nation" or "people" any group can declare themselves one and then claim the privileges of having such a status (such as the right to self-determination, etc.). That seems absurd to me, groups should have more of a basis for "nationhood" than identifying with each other over some issue at some point in time. The fact is, the "palestinians" are a construct of the 1960s - there is no historical, genetic or social basis for it - it's simply a way to gain a better grounding in the battle against Israel.

Reply 16

ForeverIsMyName

But people don't necessarily identify with each other in order to battle against Israel; there are undoubtedly men and women who genuinely feel as though they are Palestinian (With variable merits to that claim) and although they may have been conditioned to feel that way with new-found Palestinian nationalism, it doesn't take away from the fact that they feel that way and genuinely identify with each other. The social basis of identification has arrived perhaps because they have been conditioned to think this way, who knows. Either way, Israel can't afford not to pay attention to this idea.

Anyways, off to get absolutely ****in battered. In a bit.

Reply 17

lamenter

Wow let me see. The whole Palestinian thing was created to use it has a weapon against the Israelis? Hmm are you going to tell me next that there were no Arabs in Palestine until the jews came? :rolleyes:

Reply 18

Longshoredrift80

The whole "palestinian" thing was invented for that reason, you're catching on. There was no "palestinian" nation or people prior to the 1960s. The term "palestinian" had actually been used to refer to Mandatory Jews. Inventing a "palestinian" people to lay claim to the territories (and even to Israel proper) undoubtedly strengthened the Arab position in their fight against Israel's existence, as was the aim. Perhaps, instead of simply rejecting the argument, you'd like to present some evidence to back-up your position that there is some ancient nation of "palestinians". I'm thinking you won't be able to.

Reply 19

*titanium*

parkerpen

These South Africans do though? Surely having lived through apartheid they are in a position to compare the two

Just because the Palestinians are poor its an apartheid? back in 1948 everyone was poor, Jews put their effort in to building a country, the Palestinians never did this, they stayed refugges because where as Israel took on over half a milion Jewish refugees thrown out or arab countries, the arab league baned arab countries from taking on palestinan refugess because it releaves Israel of them.

Firstly The Gaza and westbank are controled by the Palestinian authority, if you check Geniva convention, a country cna not be occupyers unless they control the region.

yeah its ok i know you will decide not to belive it since its confident not to and you will bring up the fact that Israle used ot be occupiers, well does this mean Britian operated Apartide due to the fact that the colonies such as India and Sudan that it used to own where much poorer then Britian?

Do you want to know what the situation is of Palestinans in Lebanon that got there before it was illegal for arab countries to take them on? No they where not kicked out, simply banned from getting Lebanese citizenship, banned from owning land or a buissnes baned from using the countries free health service banned from a lot of jobs such as being doctors, teachers, engineers and about 60 other jobs. That is not aparthide since apartheid was the abuse of the many by the few, but still this discrimonation with in their countries go on with in Lebanon and to a lesser agree Jordan and Saudi Arabia, but Israle get slamed for trying to reduce terrorist attacks, the 30,000 since the year 2000, and the 'illegal aparthide wall' and Israleis activities has reduced Israeli deaths by almost 90%.