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University of Cambridge

Cambridge

Churchill College (Cambridge) Students and Applicants

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Reply 380

EM(Lin)

Jakko247

Is it the childrens fault that their parents couldn't afford a bill which to put it lightly, represents a close comparison with their phone number? :smile:

That has nothing to do with how seriously they take their studies. You don't have to be at a private school to do this, surely?!

University of Cambridge

Cambridge

Reply 381

Revolution is my Name

Jakko247

Is it the childrens fault that their parents couldn't afford a bill which to put it lightly, represents a close comparison with their phone number? :smile:

You can still take your education seriously without going to a private school. It's harder, but it's a long long way from impossible.

Reply 382

Rubgish

Jakko247

Is it the childrens fault that their parents couldn't afford a bill which to put it lightly, represents a close comparison with their phone number? :smile:

Exactly which private school costs over £100,000? I just had a look at Eton and thats £30,000 a year.

Reply 383

aislinn=]

andy892

Just because you're being educated in a state school (however bad it is), it does not mean you still can't achieve those grades. It may, however, mean you would need to work harder off your own back to achieve the grades...

I agree, my best friend had a pretty good social life and achieved 9a*s 2as at gcse and 4as last year and last year she spent most of her time either in a club or with her bf or at work
some people are just naturally gifted, not saying she didn't work hard because she did but you don't have to be a social recluse or have daddy to pay for your education to acieve this =]

Reply 384

twinsforever

Jakko247

Is it the childrens fault that their parents couldn't afford a bill which to put it lightly, represents a close comparison with their phone number? :smile:

You dont need to pay for a good education. Are we forgetting there are good comprehensives out there? And what about grammar schools? They are still state schools but encourage their students to do well in exams.
Yes, there are bad comprehensives but there are also believe it or not bad private schools as well! Not comparable but also not the stereotypical private school producing students with all A*s at GCSE. In the end, alot of it comes down to ability.

Reply 385

lefneosan

I cant see why anyone would want to go to Churchill anyway. Its all modern and eugh

Reply 386

Jakko247

Rubgish

Exactly which private school costs over £100,000? I just had a look at Eton and thats £30,000 a year.

Hmm children go to school for 1 year do they?

Reply 387

EM(Lin)

twinsforever

This.

Although I think the idea of private schools exculsively (or even mostly) turning out students with loads of A*s is greatly exaggerated.

Reply 388

MathsHamster

Jakko247

Supposedly you were given the time, environment/atmosphere and means to excel at such the crutial age (14-16) to gain 9A*s.
Now somebody who had a rough time for whatever reasons at this delicate time is now stopped from going to a university 4 years later.... I'd say that was elitist.

I got 13 A*s actually. And I lost 3 family members during that crucial period.
Somebody who did have a rough time for whatever reasons would be perfectly able to email the university explaining this, and to remedy the situation at A level. Universities are more flexible than they make out and somebody who showed truly exceptional ability would probably still get an interview provided they had good AS grades.
As many people have said, it is elitist in terms of intelligence. And why shouldn't it be? Churchill want their statistics to reflect well on them, and you get good exam results by starting with the cleverest students.
Trinity college defended their use of the A* grade this year by working out all their previous applicants' (for the last 5 years or so) UMS grades. Nearly all of them would have got at least 1 A* had the exam system included them then, and the ones who didn't were the students who were struggling with their course. This suggests that students who don't do as well in exams in school for whatever reason, struggle at a demanding university course. Whether they did badly because they were failed by their environment or because of their intelligence doesn't matter. Even a really bright student who didn't do well at school because of the rubbish teaching, badly behaved classes etc. would probably not cope at university. Churchill are unwilling to take this risk.
Are you trying to say that Churchill is elitist in terms of class? We have all agreed with you that it is elitist in terms of intelligence. In what other way is it elitist? Many working- or lower middle-class students do get in. But for those who have been failed by the poor school they were forced to attend, Cambridge cannot remedy their situation.

Reply 389

Jakko247

EM(Lin)

This.

Although I think the idea of private schools exculsively (or even mostly) turning out students with loads of A*s is greatly exaggerated.

I don't.
If it's the case in grammar schools, then it will be even moreso in private/public schools. If it wasn't then they would be a waste of money.

Reply 390

ysbera

lefneosan

I cant see why anyone would want to go to Churchill anyway. Its all modern and eugh

Don't we live in the 21st century. Where almost everything is modern anyways?

Reply 391

Lacewing

fumblewomble

It depends on what kind of class we're talking about. I'm talking about the very worst schools where it's a struggle to get the students turning up to class and sitting quietly at their desks so that teaching can happen

These kinds of difficulties will not be helped by hooking some bright kids back into the state sector.

Reply 392

The1truebelieber

Jakko247

I don't.
If it's the case in grammar schools, then it will be even moreso in private/public schools. If it wasn't then they would be a waste of money.

They're not. The quality of those pupils that attend them is far higher.

You're incredibly ignorant and you refuse to listen to the experience of people who have been there and done that.

Reply 393

TheMeister

=gabriel=

Well it's hard to say where to draw the line...Churchill decided to draw it at 9 which might seem like a lot to some people but the admissions tutors must have a reason for it. If people with this or higher no. of A*'s consistently deliver in the Tripos, it makes a lot of sense from the College's perspective.

Yes, but surely they can compare themselves with other colleges (St. John's for instance) who churn out equally as good law students after Year 3, despite them having lower entry qualifications. It seems they take this position as a symbolic move, to represent their elitism, as opposed to genuinely sorting the chaff from the wheat.

Reply 394

ParadigmShift

I can't believe this thread is still going. OP, just accept you're in the wrong here; Churchill are only being elitist in terms of intelligence.

Reply 395

Revolution is my Name

twinsforever

Are we forgetting there are good comprehensives out there? And what about grammar schools? They are still state schools but encourage their students to do well in exams..

I think that's just reinforcing the OP's point though, because the vast majority of us are just sent to the nearest State school, and you're sort of implying, by saying that you need to go to a good school in order to get good results, that those people are effectively doomed and have no chance of getting good results.

Reply 396

Lacewing

There needs to be a concerted effort to improve the quality of state school education by looking at the reasons students are successful across all educational institutions. This should be the focus instead of polarising the debate between state/private education.

Reply 397

EM(Lin)

Jakko247

I don't.
If it's the case in grammar schools, then it will be even moreso in private/public schools. If it wasn't then they would be a waste of money.

Do you not think the student is in some way responsible for their grades? You can go to a private school, not do any work, and get poor grades. You can go to a state school and... you can see where I'm going with this.

Tell me, have you ever actually visited a private school? Do you know anyone who goes to one? ANYONE, regardless of their school, who gets all A*s at GCSE and 90% plus at A Level has some level of academic ability. I don't want to get into a debate about whether that ability is in passing exams or whatever, but you get my point.

Reply 398

ily_em

=gabriel=

They didn't even draw the line at nine -- people with 5 or more can apply. It just so happens that people with 9A* have turned out to be better over all of the application process (interview, tests, written work etc).

Reply 399

MathsHamster

Jakko247

I don't.
If it's the case in grammar schools, then it will be even moreso in private/public schools. If it wasn't then they would be a waste of money.

They are not a waste of money when you consider that some kids who would normally only be expected to get a handful of mediocre GCSEs get mainly As and Bs. That does not look amazing but for that particular kid it could well be a miracle that would not have happened at a state school. The ones who get straight A*s at private schools are the ones who are bright enough to get mainly As and A*s at state schools.
Also, private schools' high exam results are also because many of them are selective and therefore have very few kids in the bottom 30% or so of ability. State schools have to take these children and their averages are brought down, so their crop of A*s does not seem so great when you compare them to the whole year. The high percentage of A*s at private school is more to do with them taking the cleverest kids.