US College Shooting - 10 Reported Dead

All you've done is launch an attack here on the points made as opposed to actually debating or discussing the points at hand. That's because you can't actually discuss them because you haven't a leg to stand on. The reality is that several countries with higher gun ownership rates than other countries also have lower intentional homicides related to firearms. Furthermore, they also have less gang affiliated crime and most certainly do not have a situation whereby organised gangs such as MS13, the Bloods and the Crips hold down entire districts in certain parts of states in America. It is a product of an ill society focused on money and when you marginalise people and push them into poverty they will turn to gangs for a sense of belonging. When you marginalise those with mental health issues they will also act out to be heard because society for the most part has ignored them. Others commit the crimes because they think its cool or because they want to do so, and you'll always get these bad eggs in society. It's really boring listening to self righteous twits like Piers Morgan bang on about gun control when the reality is even if stricter gun regulations came into force the situation would only get worse because a larger criminal market will emerge to swallow up what is now a legal market share. Anyone who would rather see more illegal guns on the streets, often altered to become untraceable, is deluded beyond belief..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/1/chris-harper-mercer-identified-umpqua-community-co/

white

Well this college was a "Gun Free Zone". Even water pistols are forbidden.

I don't think their policy worked.

Also holy **** what the hell are you talking about? A culture focused on money?

What the ****? And "entire districts of states controlled by the Bloods and Crips" oh my god is that what you guys actually think goes on over here oh my god I'm pissing that is too ****ing good

If there were no guns in America ---> crazy people can't guns and slaughter people. It's that simple.

And no, the black market could in no way replace the massive legal gun trade in the US, that would be a huge undertaking. We actually have police in this country believe it or not that would enforce these regulations. In addition, most countries that have enacted sweeping gun control measures have caused guns/ammunition prices to skyrocket on the black market. Supply and demand bitch.

How do you propose we solve the problem of 10,000 Americans dying annually from gun violence, then?

Also holy **** what the hell are you talking about? A culture focused on money?

What the ****? And "entire districts of states controlled by the Bloods and Crips" oh my god is that what you guys actually think goes on over here

Raoul Moat got access to a gun and still killed people. There have been others in the UK who've obtained guns and killed people. If there is a will, there is a way. The UK has many problems of its own with knife related crime and glass related attacks in nightclubs. Banning something does not make it go away. It just creates an illegal market. If you had actually done your history in school you'd have realised this as the same thing happened with prohibition, which is why later on alcohol was legalised again. It is far better in all regards to have something on the legal market than the illegal market. You're incredibly naive if you believe that banning guns or strict gun control is actually going to alter the way of life in America. For a start, the introduction of such measures would only prove to be a catalyst for a resistance in southern American states whereby people are very passionate about gun ownership. Well done on adding fuel to the flames.



Incorrect. The illegal arms trade in America is already big enough as it is and with America's location its very easy to smuggle anything from guns to drugs into the country. People who partake in those activities will take a multi million pound hit by customs if it means getting in millions more of drugs elsewhere. They purposely get caught to distract the authorities and this has been going on for many decades, even before the likes of Pablo Escobar came onto the scene. You may very well have police but that doesn't stop someone with the will to commit such a crime from doing it.

All you've done here is show that you don't actually understand how macroeconomics works. Supply and demand is of course a major factor but a country like America, whereby guns are part of the culture, will have a high demand and the supply will follow. Do you honestly believe that gang members in places like California are purchasing their guns from Walmart? No, they are getting them via illegal measures and for the most part these weapons are untraceable. A lot of these gang members are not idiots and actually if they chose another path could probably be very successful people. A lot of criminals are a step ahead of the authorities on every move.



An alteration in culture and the way society is. It will take generations of education about dealing with things such as mental illness and working towards a more equal society that doesn't marginalise people.



Yes. It's the truth. You have an intrinsically capitalist way of thinking and money mostly dictates most of your social policy. Healthcare is dictated by money as one example. University access is dictated by money and therefore students are crippled with incredibly inflated fees. You seem to be unable to accept the flaws of your own nation.



Nowhere have you actually rebuffed any of the points put forward. You just claim it doesn't happen and bury your head in the sand, much like Obama will do after telling everyone the US needs to do more. You have a culture whereby something happens, people pretend to care for a moment and then the American pursuit of happiness continues on. It's a pretty warped way of being and the more Americanised the UK becomes the worse it gets as well.

Even an American can admit that you worship money.

[video="youtube;dapocWEfczQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dapocWEfczQ[/video]

without the guns, these people would not have resorted to becoming killers.

And that's where I fundamentally disagree with you. Without the guns these people would have committed crimes in another way whether its via stabbing people, explosive devices or hit and runs in areas with high civilians. There's still also the risk that they could have obtained a gun on the illegal market. The problem is not the guns. The problem is that people in society are being driven to a point whereby they think doing such a thing is warranted. For some its a cry for help. For others its a mission to be recognised and fulfil their narcissistic outlook. The country needs to change its entire culture and mindset. Blaming access to guns is a gross oversimplification of a much deeper rooted problem.

You can't say that banning guns isn't an option just because people still have access to guns. If guns are banned in America, people will still be able to get guns - however the number of people getting guns will still be substantially reduced.

The shooting incidences like Santa Barbra, Columbine, the journalist shooting and yesterday's all probably happened because of the easy access to guns. These are fairly normal individuals, leading normal lives. However some things have happened to them which made them snap, and the fact that they always have that 'option' of going on a killing spree at the back of their mind is the reason they did the things they did. It is ridiculously easy to get a gun. And these individuals weren't psychopaths looking for guns, they were fairly normal people who used guns as a last resort. They would not have done what they did if they didn't have the security of being able to just go and buy a gun like that. Although the Santa Barbra shootings involved stabbings first, these stabbings only occurred because the killer had premeditated a rampage with a gun, without the guns, these people would not have resorted to becoming killers.

They are not normal individuals. They have killed killed a lot of people, that is not normal.

Why have we not see the same behaviour from people in the UK who own firearms?

The last massacre with firearms in the UK was in 2010, before that it was 1996 and before that was in 1987.

Banning guns in the US isn't an option because of the Constitution. It would cause massive civil unrest and I doubt it would even get passed as law.

I'm talking prior to this. For example, the Santa Barbra shooter became a killer through a mix of social segregation AND the fact that the weaponry to deliver his rampage was so readily available. The availability of guns therefore encourages people who could be killers to become killers. We are all killers to an extent by evolution, some people more so, but the fact that guns are so easily acquirable means that those who could become killers do. Whereas in the UK those who could become killers 99% of the time don't because they have no means to deliver it - although there are knives and other weapons, they do not offer the same security as having a firearm - little physical strength is needed for this and you can control large groups of people - such characteristics are not embedded into melee weapons like knives.

And that's where I fundamentally disagree with you. Without the guns these people would have committed crimes in another way whether its via stabbing people, explosive devices or hit and runs in areas with high civilians. There's still also the risk that they could have obtained a gun on the illegal market. The problem is not the guns. The problem is that people in society are being driven to a point whereby they think doing such a thing is warranted. For some its a cry for help. For others its a mission to be recognised and fulfil their narcissistic outlook. The country needs to change its entire culture and mindset. Blaming access to guns is a gross oversimplification of a much deeper rooted problem.

I don't think so, because firearms offer a unique array of traits that other weapons (apart from bombs, perhaps) do not. You can control large groups of people, you can kill however many people corresponding to the number of bullets you have, video games readily enhance the experience of what it is like using firearms, they are also unlikely to be met with physical resistance. These are unique to guns, and committing crimes with knives would not be the same. I cannot imagine anyone like the Santa Barbra shooter going on that massacre with just a knife because he knows he would have been overwhelmed - although he stabbed three roommates, this was because he had the guns as well and therefore had means to kill more people.

I'm talking prior to this. For example, the Santa Barbra shooter became a killer through a mix of social segregation AND the fact that the weaponry to deliver his rampage was so readily available. The availability of guns therefore encourages people who could be killers to become killers. We are all killers to an extent by evolution, some people more so, but the fact that guns are so easily acquirable means that those who could become killers do. Whereas in the UK those who could become killers 99% of the time don't because they have no means to deliver it - although there are knives and other weapons, they do not offer the same security as having a firearm - little physical strength is needed for this and you can control large groups of people - such characteristics are not embedded into melee weapons like knives.

It was indeed. I saw the thread and thought it was just another edgy troll as normal.

you actually browse /r9k/ ?