Should immigrants vote in the EU referendum?
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Original post by Howard
I fail to understand why you feel that some British citizens should not be allowed to vote.
I've never been in favour of creating different classes of citizenship like you are suggesting - and certainly not on racial grounds. I'm multi-national myself; holding citizenship of the UK, US, and Canada. I take my right to vote very seriously. I would not be happy to be told that I am only a second class Canadian citizen (because I wasn't born in Canada) so shouldn't have the right to vote in this month's Federal elections. I'm a law abiding Canadian citizen (and I actually earned my citizenship rather than being born with it)
Just to set the record straight though, I didn't actually say that I felt that people serving time shouldn't be able to vote anyway. I don't have a strong personal opinion on that one way or another.
I've never been in favour of creating different classes of citizenship like you are suggesting - and certainly not on racial grounds. I'm multi-national myself; holding citizenship of the UK, US, and Canada. I take my right to vote very seriously. I would not be happy to be told that I am only a second class Canadian citizen (because I wasn't born in Canada) so shouldn't have the right to vote in this month's Federal elections. I'm a law abiding Canadian citizen (and I actually earned my citizenship rather than being born with it)
Just to set the record straight though, I didn't actually say that I felt that people serving time shouldn't be able to vote anyway. I don't have a strong personal opinion on that one way or another.
As an extreme example.
A man born a raised in Iraq, who has resided in England for 5 years, speaks no English and can trace his ancestry to the Middle East for the past thousand years, but was granted a British passport, should not be voting on the autonomy of the UK in my opinion.
First and second generation immigrants imposed on a racially homogenous society undemocratically, should not be voting on the future of the society. Otherwise the first thing any political party would/could do when elected is import new voters every election and they would hold office indefinitely. It would stop being a democracy.
Why even bother importing voters at this point, why not just post out passports to foreign countries and open polling stations in Russia every election, it makes a farcical of the democratic process.
Original post by Ace123
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/109868
Currently EU immigrants are not allowed to vote in the EU referendum however Commonwealth immigrants as well as immigrants from Malta, Cyprus & the Republic of Ireland can vote. Is this a fix of the vote as immigrants particularly those from EU nations are very likely to vote to stay giving the In campaign hundreds of thousands of votes automatically.
For example Republic of Ireland in their same sex referendum only allow Irish citizens to vote & only in person so even Irish ex pats have to physically be in Ireland to vote
Should immigrants be allowed to vote in the EU referendum?
Currently EU immigrants are not allowed to vote in the EU referendum however Commonwealth immigrants as well as immigrants from Malta, Cyprus & the Republic of Ireland can vote. Is this a fix of the vote as immigrants particularly those from EU nations are very likely to vote to stay giving the In campaign hundreds of thousands of votes automatically.
For example Republic of Ireland in their same sex referendum only allow Irish citizens to vote & only in person so even Irish ex pats have to physically be in Ireland to vote
Should immigrants be allowed to vote in the EU referendum?
Got a uk passport you can vote, don't? You can't. Simple
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Original post by paul514
but it isn't simple because the government are not limiting the vote to British citizens
Original post by RodgertheRabbit
First and second generation immigrants imposed on a racially homogeneous society undemocratically, should not be voting on the future of the society.
So, someone born here, educated here, married and raised their children here, whose parents were born here, raised and educated here, whose grandparents were invited to come here to work 60 years ago and did so and paid their taxes - these people should not be entitled to vote?
When the Windrush came here in 1948 from Jamaica it contained many men who had been servicemen who fought for us in the Second World War who were invited to come here to work. Many stayed, married and raised a family. So you're saying someone who served alongside (or as a member of) the British armed forces and chose to settle here is so unworthy that even their grandchildren should not be entitled to an opinion?
What if someone has just one grandparent who was an immigrant? Are they excluded?
Original post by Ace123
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/109868
Currently EU immigrants are not allowed to vote in the EU referendum however Commonwealth immigrants as well as immigrants from Malta, Cyprus & the Republic of Ireland can vote. Is this a fix of the vote as immigrants particularly those from EU nations are very likely to vote to stay giving the In campaign hundreds of thousands of votes automatically.
For example Republic of Ireland in their same sex referendum only allow Irish citizens to vote & only in person so even Irish ex pats have to physically be in Ireland to vote
Should immigrants be allowed to vote in the EU referendum?
Currently EU immigrants are not allowed to vote in the EU referendum however Commonwealth immigrants as well as immigrants from Malta, Cyprus & the Republic of Ireland can vote. Is this a fix of the vote as immigrants particularly those from EU nations are very likely to vote to stay giving the In campaign hundreds of thousands of votes automatically.
For example Republic of Ireland in their same sex referendum only allow Irish citizens to vote & only in person so even Irish ex pats have to physically be in Ireland to vote
Should immigrants be allowed to vote in the EU referendum?
The difference between normal voting and the refereundum on same sex marriage was that the vote was a change to our constitution so it made sense that only those living in Ireland and were citizens were allowed to vote. Though my understanding was that if you were living in Ireland and were registered to vote then you could vote, regardless of citizenship.
Original post by Gears265
Personally I don't think they should as they have a biased interest on the matter, EU migrants that is
Personally I don't think they should as they have a biased interest on the matter, EU migrants that is
As does anyone who votes whether yay or nay
Original post by TheTechN1304
No. Should English people have been allowed to vote in the Scottish referendum? This is an issue for British people to vote on about the future of their country, not for some immigrant who might only be here 5 years to decide the fate of a country which they aren't even from...
Scotland did it on residency so yes, 400,000 English people voted.
The alternative was to let 800,000 Scots living In England like myself vote though.
Original post by Ace123
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/109868
Currently EU immigrants are not allowed to vote in the EU referendum however Commonwealth immigrants as well as immigrants from Malta, Cyprus & the Republic of Ireland can vote. Is this a fix of the vote as immigrants particularly those from EU nations are very likely to vote to stay giving the In campaign hundreds of thousands of votes automatically.
For example Republic of Ireland in their same sex referendum only allow Irish citizens to vote & only in person so even Irish ex pats have to physically be in Ireland to vote
Should immigrants be allowed to vote in the EU referendum?
Currently EU immigrants are not allowed to vote in the EU referendum however Commonwealth immigrants as well as immigrants from Malta, Cyprus & the Republic of Ireland can vote. Is this a fix of the vote as immigrants particularly those from EU nations are very likely to vote to stay giving the In campaign hundreds of thousands of votes automatically.
For example Republic of Ireland in their same sex referendum only allow Irish citizens to vote & only in person so even Irish ex pats have to physically be in Ireland to vote
Should immigrants be allowed to vote in the EU referendum?
I don't care. Referendums are an awful ideal unless they deliver a very strong result for one side.
Whether you do it by passport and let 2 million Brits in Europe vote or by residency and let the immigrants vote, you ain't getting a strong enough result for either side.
Original post by billydisco
Its interesting you say that. England has always had more in common with N Ireland than the socialist Wales and Scotland.
Wales votes with England politically for the most part and was a region of England for 300 years.
Original post by RodgertheRabbit
No, not the entire country. Just the Irish who live in the UK. For example Northern Irish persons have dual nationality, northern Ireland is part of the UK so they can vote.
I think that's how it works.
This also applies to the Irish residing in the other parts of the UK I think. To be fair, they were in the UK first lol. Consider them to the UK what the Native Americans are to the USA
I think that's how it works.
This also applies to the Irish residing in the other parts of the UK I think. To be fair, they were in the UK first lol. Consider them to the UK what the Native Americans are to the USA
This isn't true at all, Irish people or 'Celtic people' were not the first people to live in the British Isles and are migrants from the mainland just like the other ancient groups of Britons. There is archaeological evidence that pre-dates Celtic civilisation.
My family is mostly Irish, Welsh and German but I live in England, well Wales currently actually. Surely I am equally Welsh as I am English or Irish? No one is truly 'Scottish' or 'Irish' or 'English', those slight ethnic distinctions faded long ago in most communities. All this micro-nationalism is what is tearing this country apart, we are all British.
Original post by Roofas
This isn't true at all, Irish people or 'Celtic people' were not the first people to live in the British Isles and are migrants from the mainland just like the other ancient groups of Britons. There is archaeological evidence that pre-dates Celtic civilisation.
My family is mostly Irish, Welsh and German but I live in England, well Wales currently actually. Surely I am equally Welsh as I am English or Irish? No one is truly 'Scottish' or 'Irish' or 'English', those slight ethnic distinctions faded long ago in most communities. All this micro-nationalism is what is tearing this country apart, we are all British.
My family is mostly Irish, Welsh and German but I live in England, well Wales currently actually. Surely I am equally Welsh as I am English or Irish? No one is truly 'Scottish' or 'Irish' or 'English', those slight ethnic distinctions faded long ago in most communities. All this micro-nationalism is what is tearing this country apart, we are all British.
You really have lost the plot a little, if everyone is British then the word itself is obscured into meaninglessness. What does saying British mean then without further context if everyone is British.
An example we hear all to often by the left wing media outlets that push this nonsense; A British Asian man from Pakistan....... what does this even mean. Can we also have a Chinese European from Russia. It's word games to attack national identity, and these 'micro-nationalities' pertain to very real and measurable differences within demographics.
The idiosyncratic traits that lead to sub categorisation of all flora and fauna is what makes them unique and worth the sub categorisation in the first place.
Consider if we applied this logic to anything other than humans to see how politically bias the train of thought is.
The direct lineage of dogs, cats and horses is important. As is in flowers, to suggest it doesn't or shouldn't apply to humans is farcical. that we have somehow evolved beyond sub categorisation because it doesn't make us feel comfortable. Would you to go to the local dog home to adopt a K9 and they tried to give you a wolf I would think it matters, were you to grow marijuana in place of daffodils in your garden it would matter.
What you are eluding to is racial/ethnic borders, there is no defined line were one ends and another begins. But there are still patterns are averages between the demographics based on locale that show the differences are there and should be recognised and respected.
Original post by Simes
So, someone born here, educated here, married and raised their children here, whose parents were born here, raised and educated here, whose grandparents were invited to come here to work 60 years ago and did so and paid their taxes - these people should not be entitled to vote?
When the Windrush came here in 1948 from Jamaica it contained many men who had been servicemen who fought for us in the Second World War who were invited to come here to work. Many stayed, married and raised a family. So you're saying someone who served alongside (or as a member of) the British armed forces and chose to settle here is so unworthy that even their grandchildren should not be entitled to an opinion?
What if someone has just one grandparent who was an immigrant? Are they excluded?
When the Windrush came here in 1948 from Jamaica it contained many men who had been servicemen who fought for us in the Second World War who were invited to come here to work. Many stayed, married and raised a family. So you're saying someone who served alongside (or as a member of) the British armed forces and chose to settle here is so unworthy that even their grandchildren should not be entitled to an opinion?
What if someone has just one grandparent who was an immigrant? Are they excluded?
They fought a Nazi regime that would have wiped them from the face of the earth, it was in their interest to fight. We do not owe the Russians anything for fighting to save their own lives and we do not owe some Afro-Caribbean for fighting to save his own life. If anything they owe us for allowing them to fight along side us, for putting a gun in their hand when Hitler came. Lest they have to fight with sticks and stones.
And no, in my opinion, it doesn't give them the right to vote on our autonomy, nor does paying taxes. they can have an opinion just like I can have mine. And my opinion is that nobody voted to bring them here, they weren't invited, and uninvited guests don't get to sell the house.
They have 1 generation here, 60 years. Our ancestry spans thousands in these isles.
(edited 8 years ago)
They are being brought here in order to keep Britain in the EU.
Original post by RodgertheRabbit
A man born a raised in Iraq, who has resided in England for 5 years, speaks no English and can trace his ancestry to the Middle East for the past thousand years, but was granted a British passport, should not be voting on the autonomy of the UK in my opinion.
Why not? Doesn't matter where you've come from, only where you're going - and if you're a resident of the uk, holding British citizenship then you're a Brit and have the right to a vote.
First and second generation immigrants imposed on a racially homogenous society undemocratically, should not be voting on the future of the society. Otherwise the first thing any political party would/could do when elected is import new voters every election and they would hold office indefinitely. It would stop being a democracy.
How are they here undemocratically (even if we assume that's not just a nonsensical collection of words) - with the EU (who aren't allowed to vote) the British people elected a government who took us in - that's democracy. For residents of the commonwealth - fair enough, they didn't join democratically - and that's our fault because we sailed the seas and stuck flags in every beach we landed on, but we took over that territory just as the English took over Wales by invading - would you say then that the welsh don't deserve the vote?
Also, most parties will declare a stance on border control and people will vote for the government, and any immigration policy will be voted on, so they couldn't import people undemocratically.
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Original post by RodgertheRabbit
They have 1 generation here, 60 years. Our ancestry spans thousands in these isles.
The Vikings are more recent still So everyone in Yorkshire can bugger off.
What about the Angles? They've only been about 1½ millennia.
The Romans buggered off of the own accord so we don't need to worry about them. Would they be a good place to draw the line? Only people who fought the Roman invasions can vote?
What colour is your hair, citizen? What colour are your eyes?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by RodgertheRabbit
This also applies to the Irish residing in the other parts of the UK I think. To be fair, they were in the UK first lol. Consider them to the UK what the Native Americans are to the USA
This also applies to the Irish residing in the other parts of the UK I think. To be fair, they were in the UK first lol. Consider them to the UK what the Native Americans are to the USA
LOL!
The Irish are Celts. The Celts didn't start showing up in Britain (from central Europe) until about 500BC. Britain was populated long before that (Stone Henge, for example, was built at least 1500 and possibly 2500 years before the Celts arrived)
Original post by Howard
LOL!
The Irish are Celts. The Celts didn't start showing up in Britain (from central Europe) until about 500BC. Britain was populated long before that (Stone Henge, for example, was built at least 1500 and possibly 2500 years before the Celts arrived)
The Irish are Celts. The Celts didn't start showing up in Britain (from central Europe) until about 500BC. Britain was populated long before that (Stone Henge, for example, was built at least 1500 and possibly 2500 years before the Celts arrived)
Britons were here before the Celts? You sure about that? I was under the imprison Briton was named after a roman Goddess of the sea as they invaded the Gaelic/Celtic lands of what is now the UK .
Britons are the cultural meeting point, I maybe wrong though. Would be interested in knowing what you know though.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Why not? Doesn't matter where you've come from, only where you're going - and if you're a resident of the uk, holding British citizenship then you're a Brit and have the right to a vote.
How are they here undemocratically (even if we assume that's not just a nonsensical collection of words) - with the EU (who aren't allowed to vote) the British people elected a government who took us in - that's democracy. For residents of the commonwealth - fair enough, they didn't join democratically - and that's our fault because we sailed the seas and stuck flags in every beach we landed on, but we took over that territory just as the English took over Wales by invading - would you say then that the welsh don't deserve the vote?
Also, most parties will declare a stance on border control and people will vote for the government, and any immigration policy will be voted on, so they couldn't import people undemocratically.
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How are they here undemocratically (even if we assume that's not just a nonsensical collection of words) - with the EU (who aren't allowed to vote) the British people elected a government who took us in - that's democracy. For residents of the commonwealth - fair enough, they didn't join democratically - and that's our fault because we sailed the seas and stuck flags in every beach we landed on, but we took over that territory just as the English took over Wales by invading - would you say then that the welsh don't deserve the vote?
Also, most parties will declare a stance on border control and people will vote for the government, and any immigration policy will be voted on, so they couldn't import people undemocratically.
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The British people elected a government to best represent their interests, democracy is flawed in this respect. If every village town and city took a vote nobody would have voted Afro-Arabs in to their street or as their neighbours. It was imposed upon them by a select few, granted they voted them in to make important decisions. But the will of the people is obvious.
Wherever these people are moved to natives flee, they aren't wanted. Immigration is the number 1 issue among the majority of the voting public yet it increases every year. This is not a functional democracy, the people did not invite them in, they are unwelcome guests and should not be voting on the autonomy of the nation.
Unwelcome guests don not get to vote on selling the house.
The poll doesn't make a clear enough distinction between immigrants who have British citizenship and those who don't; nor does it provide a 'not sure/don't know' option. So I'm not voting in it and nor should anybody else with strong views on the matter.
Original post by Simes
The Normans haven't been here a thousand years. So they can bugger off.
The Vikings are more recent still So everyone in Yorkshire can bugger off.
What about the Angles? They've only been about 1½ millennia.
The Romans buggered off of the own accord so we don't need to worry about them. Would they be a good place to draw the line? Only people who fought the Roman invasions can vote?
What colour is your hair, citizen? What colour are your eyes?
The Vikings are more recent still So everyone in Yorkshire can bugger off.
What about the Angles? They've only been about 1½ millennia.
The Romans buggered off of the own accord so we don't need to worry about them. Would they be a good place to draw the line? Only people who fought the Roman invasions can vote?
What colour is your hair, citizen? What colour are your eyes?
lol, I'm a patriotic pagan. Come on be fair, why should Africans or Arabs be voting on the autonomy of the UK , which is what it comes down to. Can anyone be a Briton, sorta obscures the meaning.
So if anyone can vote, why not just open polling stations in every country across the world. Arabs and Africans have been here for 1 generation, about 60 years. Nobody voted on it, and people are protesting about. If the government can just import voters it undermines the idea of democracy.
Original post by RodgertheRabbit
The British people elected a government to best represent their interests, democracy is flawed in this respect. If every village town and city took a vote nobody would have voted Afro-Arabs in to their street or as their neighbours. It was imposed upon them by a select few, granted they voted them in to make important decisions. But the will of the people is obvious.
What you're describing is direct democracy and it's completely unfeasible on a national scale. But that you didn't get to vote on each policy doesn't make the policies undemocratic - They've been introduced exactly as democracy allows.
Wherever these people are moved to natives flee, they aren't wanted. Immigration is the number 1 issue among the majority of the voting public yet it increases every year. This is not a functional democracy, the people did not invite them in, they are unwelcome guests and should not be voting on the autonomy of the nation.
Unwelcome guests don not get to vote on selling the house.
They're not guests if they're citizens of the uk, and white flight is nowhere near as big a thing as you're suggesting.
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