CNN: 'Men are desperate.'
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Original post by XcitingStuart
It was a joke... -.-
You might be surprised, but I am actually aware of at least most of preconceptions I have, so I give them no validity.
(But would that invalidate them being preconceptions then? Perhaps. So I can say I have few preconceptions. So the only part of this post that was relevant, was "It was a joke... -.-"
You take some replies far too seriously (for your own good, perhaps, as well.)
You might be surprised, but I am actually aware of at least most of preconceptions I have, so I give them no validity.
(But would that invalidate them being preconceptions then? Perhaps. So I can say I have few preconceptions. So the only part of this post that was relevant, was "It was a joke... -.-"
You take some replies far too seriously (for your own good, perhaps, as well.)
Yeah, I know.
I would say a preconception you are aware of is still a preconception; a preconception does not disappear because you rationally - or perhaps irrationally - deem it to be invalid.
Oh, and I'm zealous in relation to certain topics. So, yes, I take them seriously, often to my own detriment.
Original post by TheCitizenAct
What's next, maybe I'm a virgin?
Another point, cannot stand people using this as an insult towards anyone. Ugh.
Original post by RulesforRadicals
The problem with debating people, is that as soon as you debate them, you've implicitly given their views some level of your respect
The problem with debating people, is that as soon as you debate them, you've implicitly given their views some level of your respect
I think I'll stop now then.
Original post by TheCitizenAct
I think I'll stop now then.
Smooth.
Original post by RulesforRadicals
Smooth.
I disagree. More often I've implicitly given their views some level of my contempt.
Though they might perceive it to be respect.
I also reply to troll threads in the event that my deductions about them being a troll are wrong.
Perhaps instead of respect, I'd say attention.
Original post by XcitingStuart
I disagree. More often I've implicitly given their views some level of my contempt.
Though they might perceive it to be respect.
I also reply to troll threads in the event that my deductions about them being a troll are wrong.
Perhaps instead of respect, I'd say attention.
Though they might perceive it to be respect.
I also reply to troll threads in the event that my deductions about them being a troll are wrong.
Perhaps instead of respect, I'd say attention.
I do identify as a feminist, but if some SJW freak who posts on tumblr and has purple hair, sat me down and started calling me an agent of patriarchy, I wouldn't defend myself to explain to her why she's wrong, I would get up and leave
You don't wrestle with pigs because you both end up getting dirty and the pig enjoys it.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by RulesforRadicals
I do identify as a feminist, but if some SJW freak who posts on tumblr and has purple hair, sat me down and started calling me an agent of patriarchy, I wouldn't defend myself to explain to her why I'm wrong, I would get up and leave
You don't wrestle with pigs because you both end up getting dirty and the pig enjoys it.
You don't wrestle with pigs because you both end up getting dirty and the pig enjoys it.
I feel better knowing I've given them the chance of being educated.
Original post by XcitingStuart
I feel better knowing I've given them the chance of being educated.
They enjoy being taken seriously, much better to either ignore them or make fun of them.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Erm I don't really think that's the answer? We'd never have societal change if people just left 
'If you're not happy with western society criminalising homosexuality, leave.' That 100% would've got homosexuality decriminalised
'If you're not happy with western society criminalising homosexuality, leave.' That 100% would've got homosexuality decriminalised Original post by Bupdeeboowah
If they left then there would be any need to decriminalise homosexuality, because there wouldn't be any homosexual crimes left!
The law would still reflect homosexuality as being illegal.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
The law would still reflect homosexuality as being illegal.
Original post by StBebe
What is it that all of you gents want then?
Absolute equality. Not relative equality.
An end to the national religion known as 'outcomes trump opportunity.'
For feminists to be able to define women without incessantly comparing and contrasting them with 'men', or infantilising women while cloaking said infantilisation in 'empowerment' rhetoric. For feminists to be able to define women as women, without incessant deference to 'everything masculinity has purportedly done.'
The demise of mythological notions. Take the 'patriarchy', which act as a prejudice imposed upon all of masculinity and exists purely in the sphere of the mythological and, to be believed, requires faith of the type found in the Catholic Church.
For the entire MSM, academia, teachers, politicians, and corporations, to stop engaging in these practices, shoring up divisions between men and women, for their own nefarious purposes.
For it to stop being socially acceptable to treat masculinity like a disability, or a pathology.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Bupdeeboowah
A law which does not prohibit the activities of anyone is unlikely to be a bad one.
Except that would never be the situation. There would always be some people who live under the repression of said law. In this hypothetical world you're never going to get 100% movement.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Another point, cannot stand people using this as an insult towards anyone. Ugh.
PRSOM
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Except that would never be the situation. There would always be some people who live under the repression of said law. In this hypothetical world you're never going to get 100% movement.
It's just like one of law prohibiting people to die in the houses of Parliament - does not apply to anyone at all, and cannot really be deemed bad.
I think VInce Kelvin is genuinely trying to help men interact with women in this article; responding to a perceived need by some men. ( Heavens there are hundreds of similar articles in women's pages and magazines , trying to help women relate to men.)
You don't advance your case that men need consideration by rejecting the case that women do too.
Nor is it necessary to reject out of hand that women have been oppressed. It is not a fallacy. For hundreds of years they had very few legal rights; so e.g.couldn't own property, had to hand over all their money to their husband on marriage, lost their job if they got married or become pregnant, ( still happens), weren't allowed to get a loan, couldn't inherit titles, were legally allowed to be beaten by their husbands, weren't allowed to have higher education, had no rights to their own children if they separated from their husbands, were used as business/political pawns by their fathers, denigrated by their religion as the cause of all the evil in this world etc etc.
Women also suffered hugely just by being women. In times when there was little medical knowledge 1 in 5 women ( I think that is the statistic) would die in childbirth.
Because of all these things women over the centuries have tried to form self help networks to support each other. Just as men formed trade groups or guilds . In more recent times women continue to expect a lot of emotional support from their female friends , perhaps in a way that men don't expect to get from their male friends. This may be one of the reasons men have such a high suicide rate? Also the removal of the obstacles that kept women from entering the trades and professions previously limited to men, may have changed men's self identity as doing these jobs was part of being a man.
Of course in times when women were not allowed to do many of these jobs you are going to find that men alone did them. This is not to say however that women were inactive. Often the whole family would work in the trade, shop, of which the man was the titular head. Women would look after the children, the house, washing/ making all the clothes, caring for the sick and elderly, working in the dairy, looking after poultry, harvesting, taking over the whole running of the land, farm, estate, country when the men left to fight wars.
Where I agree with you is that of course men do need consideration and help. There is obviously a problem somewhere in how we treat / raise boys if they are not doing as well in school as girls. I do not believe that there is 'original sin' within the male sex which means that they won't be as successful as women academically, that they will commit more crime etc. I think all these things are a result of how we treat men and have not paid attention to their needs. It is still not uncommon for boys to be routinely sent outside when they make a lot of noise eg. for hours on end.( Which would not happen to girls.) The result being that whatever adult conversation there is in the house is not offered as much to the boys as to the girls.
We need to offer boys and men much more consideration to help their role within the family. This is why paternity leave is so important. Why it is so important that men share child care even if they are not living with the mother and everything should be done to make sure this is possible. Otherwise men can end up very isolated , particularly in old age.
However I also think that ,men have a lot to gain/ and have already gained from the social changes which have allowed women to get jobs, have rights too etc. Men are now allowed to be a part of the loving family in a way which was frowned upon often in the past. Few men would want to go back to the time when many men had little to do with their children and had little emotional support. I do believe that the way forward for men is to take more part in the family. The long working hours in factories/ shops etc does not help here.
You don't advance your case that men need consideration by rejecting the case that women do too.
Nor is it necessary to reject out of hand that women have been oppressed. It is not a fallacy. For hundreds of years they had very few legal rights; so e.g.couldn't own property, had to hand over all their money to their husband on marriage, lost their job if they got married or become pregnant, ( still happens), weren't allowed to get a loan, couldn't inherit titles, were legally allowed to be beaten by their husbands, weren't allowed to have higher education, had no rights to their own children if they separated from their husbands, were used as business/political pawns by their fathers, denigrated by their religion as the cause of all the evil in this world etc etc.
Women also suffered hugely just by being women. In times when there was little medical knowledge 1 in 5 women ( I think that is the statistic) would die in childbirth.
Because of all these things women over the centuries have tried to form self help networks to support each other. Just as men formed trade groups or guilds . In more recent times women continue to expect a lot of emotional support from their female friends , perhaps in a way that men don't expect to get from their male friends. This may be one of the reasons men have such a high suicide rate? Also the removal of the obstacles that kept women from entering the trades and professions previously limited to men, may have changed men's self identity as doing these jobs was part of being a man.
Of course in times when women were not allowed to do many of these jobs you are going to find that men alone did them. This is not to say however that women were inactive. Often the whole family would work in the trade, shop, of which the man was the titular head. Women would look after the children, the house, washing/ making all the clothes, caring for the sick and elderly, working in the dairy, looking after poultry, harvesting, taking over the whole running of the land, farm, estate, country when the men left to fight wars.
Where I agree with you is that of course men do need consideration and help. There is obviously a problem somewhere in how we treat / raise boys if they are not doing as well in school as girls. I do not believe that there is 'original sin' within the male sex which means that they won't be as successful as women academically, that they will commit more crime etc. I think all these things are a result of how we treat men and have not paid attention to their needs. It is still not uncommon for boys to be routinely sent outside when they make a lot of noise eg. for hours on end.( Which would not happen to girls.) The result being that whatever adult conversation there is in the house is not offered as much to the boys as to the girls.
We need to offer boys and men much more consideration to help their role within the family. This is why paternity leave is so important. Why it is so important that men share child care even if they are not living with the mother and everything should be done to make sure this is possible. Otherwise men can end up very isolated , particularly in old age.
However I also think that ,men have a lot to gain/ and have already gained from the social changes which have allowed women to get jobs, have rights too etc. Men are now allowed to be a part of the loving family in a way which was frowned upon often in the past. Few men would want to go back to the time when many men had little to do with their children and had little emotional support. I do believe that the way forward for men is to take more part in the family. The long working hours in factories/ shops etc does not help here.
Oh man, it must be so hard to be a white man in America (!)
Original post by TheCitizenAct
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/09/opinions/kelvin-helping-men-talk-to-women/
Casual, socially acceptable misandry. If you ever needed an example of how socially acceptable it is to be prejudiced towards all of masculinity, particularly white males, this is it (then again, you'll hardly struggle to find material).
Excerpts from this article published on one of the most visited websites in the world, and by one of the world's leading brands:
"Women reading this, you know how needy and desperate men can be"
Context shift: "White people reading this, you know how needy and desperate black people can be." Gender is just as arbitrary as ethnicity, right?
"Not to mention how pushy a man can rapidly become the moment you open to his advances."
Context shift: Not to mention how pushy a black man can rapidly become the moment you open to his advances.
"But who is to blame? Certainly not women, as they have already had to put up with so much male oppression through history."
Me: A common assertion (fallacy) which no-one ever clarifies. It's now a 'sacrosanct viewpoint': 'women were oppressed.' To challenge it - and it's so simplistic and naive it deserves to be challenged - is to engage in blasphemy. There's also a presumption women are somehow all connected, which, in any other context, would be deemed an outright prejudice.
"Knowing how lazy men can be, the human race would have gone extinct a long time ago if men didn't have a built-in mechanism to encourage them to mate."
Context shift: Knowing how lazy 'black men' can be...
Me: Never mind the fact men have built, literally, absolutely everything you see around you, and millions of men spend their lives working in sewers, building homes, paving roads, shipping products and disposing of your trash...lazy? Women are far, far more likely to end up in an office job than men.
"Here are three core principles that I teach my clients to become better men at all levels:"
Me: Really? Would it ever be acceptable, for anyone, to talk about how to turn women into 'better women' according to standards set by 'men'?
"That, in turn, makes it not only more pleasant and appealing to women"
Me: Do men only exist to please women?
"These misconceptions are the cause of the creepiest trait shared by many lonely men: neediness."
Me: The same lonely men who account for the statistic no-one ever talks about? i.e., men are 4x more likely to kill themselves?
Casual, socially acceptable misandry. If you ever needed an example of how socially acceptable it is to be prejudiced towards all of masculinity, particularly white males, this is it (then again, you'll hardly struggle to find material).
Excerpts from this article published on one of the most visited websites in the world, and by one of the world's leading brands:
"Women reading this, you know how needy and desperate men can be"
Context shift: "White people reading this, you know how needy and desperate black people can be." Gender is just as arbitrary as ethnicity, right?
"Not to mention how pushy a man can rapidly become the moment you open to his advances."
Context shift: Not to mention how pushy a black man can rapidly become the moment you open to his advances.
"But who is to blame? Certainly not women, as they have already had to put up with so much male oppression through history."
Me: A common assertion (fallacy) which no-one ever clarifies. It's now a 'sacrosanct viewpoint': 'women were oppressed.' To challenge it - and it's so simplistic and naive it deserves to be challenged - is to engage in blasphemy. There's also a presumption women are somehow all connected, which, in any other context, would be deemed an outright prejudice.
"Knowing how lazy men can be, the human race would have gone extinct a long time ago if men didn't have a built-in mechanism to encourage them to mate."
Context shift: Knowing how lazy 'black men' can be...
Me: Never mind the fact men have built, literally, absolutely everything you see around you, and millions of men spend their lives working in sewers, building homes, paving roads, shipping products and disposing of your trash...lazy? Women are far, far more likely to end up in an office job than men.
"Here are three core principles that I teach my clients to become better men at all levels:"
Me: Really? Would it ever be acceptable, for anyone, to talk about how to turn women into 'better women' according to standards set by 'men'?
"That, in turn, makes it not only more pleasant and appealing to women"
Me: Do men only exist to please women?
"These misconceptions are the cause of the creepiest trait shared by many lonely men: neediness."
Me: The same lonely men who account for the statistic no-one ever talks about? i.e., men are 4x more likely to kill themselves?
I love how the guy talks of "reconnecting with your masculinity", when his post reeks of beta cuckoldry and subservience to holier than thou liberal political correctness / feminism.
Original post by Silver Arrow
Oh man, it must be so hard to be a white man in America (!)
White privilege in America is literally a myth.
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