No, how stupid you are,

Firstly atheism - lack of belief OR disbelief OR belief there is no...

So if it's a "LACK OF BELIEF" then either it's TOTAL i.e. you discount any possibility
OR it'd PARTIAL in which case you accept possibility.
if you claim it's NEITHER of the above then it's just a meaningless statement
you might as well be using oxymoronic language like "I disbelievingly believe"
SCIENTIFICALLY THAT WOULD MEAN NOTHING

So if it's only partial you might as well not argue, but if it's a TOTAL then let's follow the logic trail shall we.

because if you trace back making the assumption that atheism is fact. I.E. what came before that, what came before that, then you, as an atheist are left with 2 possible outcomes.

After you keep going what comes before that and what comes before that infinitely then

EITHER you reach a point which is PRECEDED by nothing in which case as an atheist you have no other option than to think "Existence just magically appeared from nothing" HAHAHA that's great science

OR keep tracing back infinitely and never reach an end in which case you think "existence was magically there all along" HAHAHA that's great science

See so that's as stupid as believing magic unicorns can appear from nowhere

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 991

jane matthews

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

1) The matter and energy that creates the universe was present in the singularity.

2) When the initial expansion cooled, "bits" of matter were able to stick together to form atoms.

3) Thus the simplest element, hydrogen, was in abundance.

4) Hydrogen was then compressed by gravity to form stars.

5) Stars fuse hydrogen to produce helium.

6) As the star's life draws to its end and it begins to run out of hydrogen, it will begin fusing helium and helium to form other heavier elements up to iron.

7) All the elements heavier than iron are formed in supernovas, when stars die.

8) So all of these elements, heavy and light, are flung out into space by exploding stars which then get compressed by gravity to form planets.

Atheism- lack of belief, disbelief or belief there is no...

So to say having a LACK OF BELIEF makes no claims is false because
EITHER you believe there was some possibility of a creator in which case it's pointless arguing against it. i.e PARTIAL lack of belief

OR you think there is NO POSSIBILITY i.e. TOTAL lack of belief
if you are going to sit there and say oh its neither of the above then either its PARTIAL and you just can't admit it or it's a meaningless statement which is as stupid as using oxymoronic language e.g. "oh I disbelieving believe in" BS because it is SCIENTIFICALLY MEANINGLESS

So if it's TOTAL then lets follow the logic trail

Okay so then what comes before your "stage 1"and before that and before that and before that. going back infinitely

DO you think it was PRECEDED by nothing i.e. "It just magically appeared" HAHAHAH that's really good science there.

Or you think it was "magically just there all along HAHAHA that's really good science .

This is as STUPID as thinking magic unicorns appear from nowhere

Also I note you used the lottery as analogy to say everything came down to chance, this is stupid, lazy fallacious and over simplistic.
You could adjust that argument to a man buys 10 lottery tickets every week for 10 years and winse every single time did he have a method or was it just chance. HAHA so when the same analogy proves your own argument wrong you will come up with some excuse why it's invalid

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 992

Tsar101

I would like to say that transcendental experience is the only validation for the existence of God. This is something that is very hard to obtain and there is no perfect medicine that I can give you to show you how to attain this experience. I understand why some of you don't believe in God and that is mainly because you have not experienced such things and the world(I should say cultures) tries to force religion upon you using only words of his existence. But to really understand where theists come from you need to experience the spirit to really taste the existence of God. For me personally, it was the teachings of Swami Vivekananda that guided me to experience the spirit of God. But I don't know if it will work for you because everybody is different and thus requires different levels of guidance in their lives.

I am speaking from the perspective of a Hindu alone. But I hope friends of other religions agree with me :smile:

You have to seek and know for yourselves!

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 993

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by jane matthews

Atheism- lack of belief, disbelief or belief there is no...

Most atheists are agnostic atheists who lack belief rather than have an active disbelief.

So to say having a LACK OF BELIEF makes no claims is false because
EITHER you believe there was some possibility of a creator in which case it's pointless arguing against it. i.e PARTIAL lack of belief

It's not false. By definition, agnostic atheists lack belief in God because they see no evidence for his existence. Most of these same atheists will happily convert to theism if someone provides proof for their extraordinary assertions. To date no one has been able to.

OR you think there is NO POSSIBILITY i.e. TOTAL lack of belief
if you are going to sit there and say oh its neither of the above then either its PARTIAL and you just can't admit it or it's a meaningless statement which is as stupid as using oxymoronic language e.g. "oh I disbelieving believe in" BS because it is SCIENTIFICALLY MEANINGLESS

You clearly need to learn the different between agnostic atheists and gnostic atheists.

So if it's TOTAL then lets follow the logic trail

See above.

Okay so then what comes before your "stage 1"and before that and before that and before that. going back infinitely

As far as we know time originated in the Big Bang so asking what came before doesn't even make sense as "before" is a preposition dependent on time.

DO you think it was PRECEDED by nothing i.e. "It just magically appeared" HAHAHAH that's really good science there.

I never said it popped out of nothing. I will ask you again because you're avoiding the question, what did your god create the universe from?

Or you think it was "magically just there all along HAHAHA that's really good science .

It may well have been there all along. We know matter and energy cannot be created so this a far more plausible position than believing an intelligent, magical spirit has always existed.

This is as STUPID as thinking magic unicorns appear from nowhere

Appearing out of nothing and being eternal are different positions, it appears you're confusing the two.

Also I note you used the lottery as analogy to say everything came down to chance, this is stupid, lazy fallacious and over simplistic.
You could adjust that argument to a man buys 10 lottery tickets every week for 10 years and winse every single time did he have a method or was it just chance. HAHA so when the same analogy proves your own argument wrong you will come up with some excuse why it's invalid

I didn't say everything is down to chance. Pretty much everything we make is obviously constructed, but the point is that there's no evidence the universe was built. So your extrapolation from man-made things to the cosmos is fallacious and naive.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 994

RogerOxon

Original post by jane matthews

So to say having a LACK OF BELIEF makes no claims is false

The indoctrination is strong in this one. I suggest that you spend more time thinking than ranting.

Original post by jane matthews

This is as STUPID as thinking magic unicorns appear from nowhere

Are you mocking those that believe in magic unicorns?! I'm sure that I saw a book about them somewhere ..

Original post by jane matthews

You could adjust that argument to a man buys 10 lottery tickets every week for 10 years and winse every single time did he have a method or was it just chance. HAHA so when the same analogy proves your own argument wrong you will come up with some excuse why it's invalid

How did you come up with that as having the same probability? You made it up, didn't you?!

How many planets have there been since the beginning of the Universe? If you're trying to have a discussion, back you claims up with facts. I know that religion has conditioned you to *know* or *feel* what is right, but that won't cut it here.

Reply 995

RogerOxon

Original post by jane matthews

This is as STUPID as thinking magic unicorns appear from nowhere

Or a god ..

Reply 996

RogerOxon

Original post by jane matthews

Actually you are wrong you can't prove time began with the universe that's based on NO EVIDENCE AT ALL

I didn't say that I could, did I? You really need to read what people write before going off on one.

You were listing possible scenarios, and I merely added one. You don't have to be able to understand it, or think it probable, for it to be possible. The beginning of the Universe had some extreme conditions, where our typical Earth experience is known to be useless. For example, time dilation - you wouldn't expect that from your day to day experience on Earth.

Original post by jane matthews

But since YOU are suggesting "what if NOTHING PRECEDED the universe." I.E. you believe it "just appeared magically from nowhere" with no evidence how scientific.

If time began with the Universe, then the concept of something preceding it wouldn't make sense.

Original post by jane matthews

Can magic gorillas also appear from nowhere or just unicorns?

Can you prove that they can't? If your invisible friend is logical (without evidence), why aren't all the others?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 997

jane matthews

Original post by RogerOxon

The indoctrination is strong in this one. I suggest that you spend more time thinking than ranting.

Are you mocking those that believe in magic unicorns?! I'm sure that I saw a book about them somewhere ..

How did you come up with that as having the same probability? You made it up, didn't you?!

How many planets have there been since the beginning of the Universe? If you're trying to have a discussion, back you claims up with facts. I know that religion has conditioned you to *know* or *feel* what is right, but that won't cut it here.

You are clearly emotionally invested in Atheism this because you are indoctrinated. I never said If am religious YOU are just telling yourself that.

What Roger thinks is true is based on if it supports roger's indoctrination or not.
Firstly I know you have been indoctrinated, and conditioned to think your emotions dictate objective truth, however that won't cut it with me.

When you say how did I come up with the probability IT WAS YOU who mentioned the lottery before me and used the odds of winning it once or twice- how did YOU come to that probability YOU MADE IT UP DIDN'T YOU HAHA

Also I didn't say they were the numbers I said (((IF))) they were would you still put it down to chance. This threatened YOUR INDOCTRINATION because, you knew that it would have been daft to put it down to chance yet you didn't want to accept that. But you couldn't bring yourself to admit that at those numbers you accept it wasn't.

So, basically you are saying we can make up whatever numbers as long as they support YOUR INDOCTRINATION
Also I didn't say whether planets were there at the beginning of the universe

Also saying "LACK OF BELIEF" "LACK OF BELIEF" BS unobjective unscientific language for the purposes of this dicussion .One could say "I have a lack of £10 Billion in the bank" saying this doesn't actually say what you have it's just a pointless statement.

if you can't outright say "I, Roger believe there isn't" then your just talking rubbish
EITHER
1.You believe there is
2. you believe there isn't
3. You aren't sure if you believe there is or isn't

So first make up your mind and say "I don't believe" then trace back existence for infinity and you will find
EITHER you get to a point where NOTHING PRECEDES IT i.e. you think "there was absolutely nothing then existence just magically appeared"

OR you think that "something was magically there all along"

WHY are you hiding behind "LACK OF BELIEF" why can't you Outright say "I Believe there isn't" Are you unsure??
The word atheism- can be "lack of belief" "disbelief" or "belief there is no" why not pick the other 2 are you unsure??

Also YOU SAID I use earthly experience to guide my thinking. HAHA do you think you've got "Unearthly experience" HAHA pure nonsense.
ALSO you said NOTHING PRECEDED the universe
what joke first there was nothing then it just appeared ye that's great science

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 998

RogerOxon

Original post by jane matthews

ALSO you said NOTHING PRECEDED the universe

No, I didn't. I said that time *could* have started with the Universe, so the *concept* of something preceding it *may* be invalid. Please learn to read!

Reply 999

jane matthews

Original post by RogerOxon

You don't have to be able to understand it, or think it probable, for it to be possible.

It's a shame you can't apply that to your own arguments isn't it.
you are indoctrinated and conditioned think what Roger "feels" is objective truth but that won't cut it here.

Original post by RogerOxon

I didn't say that I could, did I? You really need to read what people write before going off on one.

And I didn't say that you said you could. Merely stated that you couldn't.
So actually you need to learn to read before telling me.

Original post by RogerOxon

How did you come up with that as having the same probability? You made it up, didn't you?!

IT WAS YOU who mentioned the lottery before me and used the odds of winning it once or twice- how did YOU come to that probability YOU MADE IT UP DIDN'T YOU HAHA

Also I didn't say they were the numbers I said (((IF))) they were would you still put it down to chance. This threatened YOUR INDOCTRINATION because, you knew that it would have been daft to put it down to chance yet you didn't want to accept that. But you couldn't bring yourself to admit that at those numbers you accept it wasn't.

So, you can make up whatever numbers as long as they support YOUR INDOCTRINATION

Original post by RogerOxon

You were listing possible scenarios, and I merely added one. If time began with the Universe, then the concept of something preceding it wouldn't make sense.

You didn't add one at all.
Because the scenario you just put falls squarely into the category of NOTHING PRECEDING which is one of the ones I listed.
So again, learn to read before telling me.

(edited 7 years ago)