President Trump is right again!

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It is an open gesture of disrespect to go down on one knee when any national anthem is played, in the US people are free to express that feeling without being dragged into a dungeon and that is what is happening. One of the things that make America great, you can spit on it and live to tell the tale with a high level of media adherence and sympathy even. Sections of it.

It is hard to envisage any nation's President endorsing such acts, it means those people are ashamed of being citizens of that country in no uncertain terms. He has his own style but I totally agree with the principle he upholds.

Many black players have enough respect for the anthem to stand on both feet so you don't have to be white to agree with the President. These practices are socially counter-productive, they cause more division that unity. In that dressing-room, there is a split already.

As others already said, it is a form of protest. Why should they be restricted because of potentially causing a "divide". If you stand for something you must also be able to take the repercussions that not everyone will agree.
Again, no one saw him outrightly condemning the far right without condemning the far left as well. He chooses what he sees as right and you can't expect him not to, he's human.

Reply 21

AntiAntiFa

You know America needs a president more like Putin

Trump is totally opposite to Putin

Trump has a big mouth, doesn't think or act presidential

Gets upset and holds a grudge against anyone thats says bad things about him

Trump takes orders from AIPAC while Putin clearly wants peace and stability in the Middle East

Please anyone who thinks Putin has influence over Trump is an idiot. If anything they should be wishing Trump had good relations with Russia, so they could talk some sense to him. But that would probably get him impeached for treason.

Yeah that's the way politics in America works. Jimmy Carter even said it.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 22

username1799249

Original post by zhog

It is hard to envisage any nation's President endorsing such acts, it means those people are ashamed of being citizens of that country in no uncertain terms. He has his own style but I totally agree with the principle he upholds.

I find it rather sad that some uphold as "righteous citizens" those who perform the "correct" etiquette when confronted with a country's national anthem yet turn a blind eye when that same person is seen punching someone else in the face.

To me, a true citizen is respectful, caring and thoughtful to those around them. What they choose to do whilst a national anthem is playing is irrelevant. It is how you behave as a citizen in every-day-life that counts.

Reply 23

Drewski

Original post by zhog

Do you understand why it may be to an american war veteran, for instance? They don't all read the NYT in the US, flag and anthem still hold much sway with most of them and things like this end up polarizing public opinion for no gain whatsoever. That's precisely what is happening in changing rooms between black players right now, we don't even have to hear from one to know. Rejoice.

Do you understand how offensive it is to assume that the serviceman or woman - who has gone off and been taught that they're fighting for the right to free speech - doesn't like free speech?

Reply 24

username1738683

Original post by Drewski

Do you understand how offensive it is to assume that the serviceman or woman - who has gone off and been taught that they're fighting for the right to free speech - doesn't like free speech?

I do but it is not a given that they agree with everything spoken, it is not that simple. It would be very naive to assume no war veteran is put off by this type of free speech, some of them will be asking themselves why they bothered. And you know it, of course.

Reply 25

Drewski

Original post by zhog

And plenty won't. Why bother singling them out? It's entirely redundant.

Reply 26

username1738683

Original post by ByEeek

To me, a true citizen is respectful, caring and thoughtful to those around them. What they choose to do whilst a national anthem is playing is irrelevant. It is how you behave as a citizen in every-day-life that counts.

There is nothing respectful in this, whether these guys are being careful and thoughtful to the paying public around them I don't know. I'd resent paying good money to go watch a show and having to be subjected to politics, especially of the type I might not care much for. I have no idea what they behave like in their lives other than that and couldn't care less.

Reply 27

zezno

Trump on White supremacists/nazis: "Very fine people"

Trump on Black athletes peacefully protesting: "Sons of b*tches"

This is the logic of the right-wing, only advocate for free speech and rights when it suits them

Poor right-wing snowflakes

Reply 28

username1738683

Original post by Retired_Messiah

Oh no. Changing rooms might have people with different opinions in them. How on earth will we cope?

Were I the manager and I'd ban politics from them. Players don't get paid for that.

Reply 29

username1738683

Original post by Boredom101

Why should they be restricted because of potentially causing a "divide".

They don't have to be restricted any more than we have to agree with their stance or see any positives about it, if you can explain what those positives are it will lend more weight to your sympathetic position. And that of most media, all watching every word in case they fail to lend their support to the protesters and someone notices. So what good is this going to do?

Reply 30

Drewski

Original post by zhog

I'd resent paying good money to go watch a show and having to be subjected to politics

And yet, you're perfectly happy for an unashamedly political act to take place every single time. Why?

Reply 31

username1799249

Original post by zhog

Were I the manager and I'd ban politics from them. Players don't get paid for that.

Agreed. So you have to wonder just how bad things are getting that sports pkayers are making a stand.

From my brief knowledge of these sort of things, it starts with peaceful protest, then it becomes violent protest, then it becomes civil war. I think we under estimate how Trump is dividing America with his devisive rhetoric.

Reply 32

username1738683

Original post by Drewski

And yet, you're perfectly happy for an unashamedly political act to take place every single time. Why?

You mean the playing of the anthem? I'm perfectly happy for it, if that is what most people in any country want. A whole history behind it, not aware of mass contestation among americans. What makes you so unhappy about it?

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 33

username3441700

Original post by zhog

They clearly feel like they aren't being treated fairly in social aspects and they don't feel well represented by their President. However some of the racist people in the country find it very easy to support Trump and he doesn't feel the need to outrightly go against them yet his VP and his daughter outrightly condemned them.
Just as much as the media didn't show everyone kneeling. Is the same as how the media didn't show all the white supremacist protestors at the University of Virginia marches earlier on in the year.
Yes divide will be caused but the real question you need to ask yourself is when has America EVER been united?

Reply 34

username1738683

Original post by Boredom101

They clearly feel like they aren't being treated fairly in social aspects and they don't feel well represented by their President.

Who's they, it can't be the protesters. They're quite well off and don't need any representation from Trump. Whatever that may mean.

Yes divide will be caused but the real question you need to ask yourself is when has America EVER been united?

That may be the real question for you but for me it is more when is America GOING TO BE united. Since we both agree 'divide will be caused'...

Reply 35

username1738683

Original post by ByEeek

Agreed. So you have to wonder just how bad things are getting that sports pkayers are making a stand.

Again, not bad for them. Where does their standing in social matters come from, they can pursue their opinions elsewhere. Like the ballot box, for starters. What is so bad, everyone can find some. Plenty of it in our country, are we going to start seeing sports people making political stands on the ground? England players going down on one knee because housing lists are quite long? I really hope not, were one of them to do so in protest against immigration policies and the Guardian would have their heads for disrespecting both God and Queen.

From my brief knowledge of these sort of things, it starts with peaceful protest, then it becomes violent protest, then it becomes civil war. I think we under estimate how Trump is dividing America with his devisive rhetoric.

In this instance... he didn't start it. It is quite divisive to make a stand against your own anthem and there are very few countries in the world where that would be tolerated. That it is in the US probably demonstrates how free people really are.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 36

username3441700

Original post by zhog

Who's they, it can't be the protesters. They're quite well off and don't need any representation from Trump. Whatever that may mean.

NFL isn't their whole life, they leave the NFL they go back to living a normal life and losing their fame. Trump represents the country. America uses a representative democracy. For them, going down on one knee is protesting that America is being fair rn. Trump who claims that he loves America, the same Trump who told McCain that he needs to do more for the veterans whilst he dodged Vietnam War drafts 4 times, this is the same Trump that failed to condemn racist behaviour is the one that is the President of their country. So its not just black people but I have also seen a WWII veteran that clearly disagree's with the idea that people are condemning the NFL players for silent protest.

That may be the real question for you but for me it is more WHEN is America going to be united. Since we both agree 'divide will be caused'...

Fair enough, that's a good question to ask. However you specified that more division was being caused than unity which is why I asked you when have they ever been united in the first place.

Reply 37

username471863

Radical patriotic extremists who want to ostracise anyone who they perceive as having insulted their flag or national anthem. They turn into angry birds when that happens and will threaten you with death, violence and even place a bounty on your head.

Patriotism and religion = two sides of the same coin.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 38

Retired_Messiah

Original post by zhog

Were I the manager and I'd ban politics from them. Players don't get paid for that.

They don't get paid for lots of things. Should we stop them going to the toilet too? Bigging up how fit their wives/girlfriends are? No? Hm.

Reply 39

anarchism101

Original post by zhog

I
It is hard to envisage any nation's President endorsing such acts

There's quite a range of possibilities between endorsing someone, and publicly insulting them and demanding they be fired. Things Trump could have done instead, and which I suspect many if not most Western democratic leaders would have done one of, include:

i) Not commenting at all.
ii) Making a non-committal comment about Kaepernick and co. being entitled to their opinion and nothing more.
iii) Giving a negative response, but one much more diplomatically phrased, e.g. "I'm disappointed Colin Kaepernick chose not to stand for the anthem, but he has the right to make that choice" or something like that.