President Trump is right again!
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Original post by anarchism101
There's quite a range of possibilities between endorsing (did you mean condemning?) someone, and publicly insulting them and demanding they be fired. Things Trump could have done instead, and which I suspect many if not most Western democratic leaders would have done one of, include:
i) Not commenting at all.
i) Not commenting at all.
As if that public display in front of millions didn't matter to anything? Indifference is the worst form of insult anyway... No.
ii) Making a non-committal comment about Kaepernick and co. being entitled to their opinion and nothing more.
He wasn't talking about K, he didn't even say anything about his situation before. No.
iii) Giving a negative response, but one much more diplomatically phrased, e.g. "I'm disappointed Colin Kaepernick chose not to stand for the anthem, but he has the right to make that choice" or something like that.
He didn't get in by being diplomatic, his opponents keep making the same mistake atheists do with religious people: condemning him for not being what they want him to be is like criticizing the Church for being religious. Which atheists routinely do, as much as Trumpophobes.
I don't like him or dislike him, it's a running commentary. It's for americans to judge him and dismiss or re-elect, we fret over their presidents as if they were ours. At least give him enough rope...
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by zhog
As if that public display in front of millions didn't matter to anything?
So why does that mean Trump needed to comment?
He wasn't talking about K, he didn't even say anything about his situation before. No.
I wasn't talking about Kaepernick specifically, he was just the first one that came into my head for the purpose of an example.
He didn't get in by being diplomatic, his opponents keep making the same mistake atheists do with religious people: condemning him for not being what they want him to be is like criticizing the Church for being religious. Which atheists routinely do, as much as Trumpophobes.
It's not about what people want him to be, it's about what his job is. Being a head of state of a liberal democratic country means an obligation to be diplomatic at certain times, it's part of the job.
Trump was as usual, addressing his base.
For some reason Americans get very worked up about saluting the flag and respecting the national anthem in a way we don't. He knows that, and knows how annoyed Republicans are about the antics of these posturing tossers.
NFL players are even less popular than Premier League stars here. Similarly ridiculously overpaid they don't get involved with wannabe WAGs so much ( or it doesn't hit the media).
No they get involved in drive by shootings, or drug busts or illegal dog fights. Most of them are from the hood. The ghetto.
The idea that anyone is going to listen to their political opinions is laughable.
For some reason Americans get very worked up about saluting the flag and respecting the national anthem in a way we don't. He knows that, and knows how annoyed Republicans are about the antics of these posturing tossers.
NFL players are even less popular than Premier League stars here. Similarly ridiculously overpaid they don't get involved with wannabe WAGs so much ( or it doesn't hit the media).
No they get involved in drive by shootings, or drug busts or illegal dog fights. Most of them are from the hood. The ghetto.
The idea that anyone is going to listen to their political opinions is laughable.
Original post by astutehirstute
For some reason Americans get very worked up about saluting the flag and respecting the national anthem in a way we don't. He knows that, and knows how annoyed Republicans are about the antics of these posturing tossers.
For some reason Americans get very worked up about saluting the flag and respecting the national anthem in a way we don't. He knows that, and knows how annoyed Republicans are about the antics of these posturing tossers.
Let's stop making it sound like it's an american thing or that it is in any way controversial for a president to urge people to find another way of airing their feelings. Of course all Trumpophobes come out in a rash, they would if he had said nothing too. Failing to lend his support.
Original post by astutehirstute
Trump was as usual, addressing his base.
For some reason Americans get very worked up about saluting the flag and respecting the national anthem in a way we don't. He knows that, and knows how annoyed Republicans are about the antics of these posturing tossers.
NFL players are even less popular than Premier League stars here. Similarly ridiculously overpaid they don't get involved with wannabe WAGs so much ( or it doesn't hit the media).
No they get involved in drive by shootings, or drug busts or illegal dog fights. Most of them are from the hood. The ghetto.
The idea that anyone is going to listen to their political opinions is laughable.
For some reason Americans get very worked up about saluting the flag and respecting the national anthem in a way we don't. He knows that, and knows how annoyed Republicans are about the antics of these posturing tossers.
NFL players are even less popular than Premier League stars here. Similarly ridiculously overpaid they don't get involved with wannabe WAGs so much ( or it doesn't hit the media).
No they get involved in drive by shootings, or drug busts or illegal dog fights. Most of them are from the hood. The ghetto.
The idea that anyone is going to listen to their political opinions is laughable.
It seems strange that Trump supporters have gone on about the left clamping down on free speech/free expression while at the same time supporting a president saying someone should be fired for exercising their right of free speech.
Original post by Nerry
who gives a **** what Flump thinks?
More people than we could count, can't go anywhere these days without bumping into one. Started talking to a stranger about the Beatles at the caff the other day, took him five minutes to start going on about Trump. Attended a dinner-party, what do you think of what Trump said or failed to say, blah, blah, blah... Went on holiday abroad and even the natives were at it!
Two distinct issues are driving the national debate: Believing players should stand during National Anthem and the question of whether it's appropriate for a president to make an issue of it.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/26/politics/trump-nfl-comments-mccain-sessions-private-dinner/index.html
It's still raging, we now hear a former war-veteran player stood behind in the tunnel because he was actually offended by the whole thing but didn't want to spoil the party. The QB in the same team says he wanted to stand up for the anthem too but felt it was better not. Some people in the crowd booed. The NFL are actually walking a tighter rope here than Trump.
(edited 6 years ago)
"My thoughts are it's extremely unfortunate that the events have come out the way that they have," Hennings said. "I totally believe the league, the owners and the players have been played as pawns on both sides of the political fence to continue to divide an already divided nation.
"Who is making out more on this? It's the political parties, not the people who want to watch sports and athletics as an escape, to cheer on their team and to not deal with what they are inundated with on social media day in and day out.
The league-wide protests were sparked by President Trump, who called for NFL owners to fire players who decline to stand for the anthem in a rally in Alabama on Friday evening, then doubled down on that stance on Twitter in the following hours.
"Who is making out more on this? It's the political parties, not the people who want to watch sports and athletics as an escape, to cheer on their team and to not deal with what they are inundated with on social media day in and day out.
The league-wide protests were sparked by President Trump, who called for NFL owners to fire players who decline to stand for the anthem in a rally in Alabama on Friday evening, then doubled down on that stance on Twitter in the following hours.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2017/09/25/played-pawns-air-force-vet-former-cowboys-chad-hennings-believes-happened-nfl-weekend
Original post by Bornblue
It seems strange that Trump supporters have gone on about the left clamping down on free speech/free expression while at the same time supporting a president saying someone should be fired for exercising their right of free speech.
It is not a question of what you are FREE to do, but of what it is SEEMLY to do.
And a shared sense of what is seemly is vital to keeping any society functioning and, ultimately, free.
These players have a right to take a knee, just as you have the right to shout "fcuck!" at your grandmother's funeral. But exercising that right diminishes both you and her memory.
What about NFL's hypocrisy? They've gone from 'disgust' at Kaepernick's actions and making him damaged goods for any team to pick and... look at them now.
In case anyone is interested, here's what Obama had to say at the time:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/28/politics/obama-colin-kaepernick-nfl-national-anthem-presidential-town-hall-cnn/index.html
In case anyone is interested, here's what Obama had to say at the time:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/28/politics/obama-colin-kaepernick-nfl-national-anthem-presidential-town-hall-cnn/index.html
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by zhog
What about NFL's hypocrisy? They've gone from 'disgust' at Kaepernick's actions and making him damaged goods for any team to pick and... look at them now.
The NFL is craven. They are a big, capitalist corporation, in effect, and only care about the bottom line.
Kaepernick tarnished the brand so became persona non grata (as a QB he is good enough to be a starter in a handful of teams and a back up throughout the NFL). Now, since his protest has gained traction with the players (70% of whom are black) they are worried about a strike (surprisingly common in professional American sport). And if not an outright strike, troubles. No players, no product.
But they are caught between a rock and a hard place. NFL supporters don't tend to be BLM lefties. Its bedrock support is redneck working class white males. The Trump base. Why do you think the Donald spoke out in the first place?
TV ratings are in decline, whether this is linked to this campaign is hotly debated, the lefties vehemently dispute it, as you would expect. But that the campaign is unpopular with consumers of the NFL is indisputable. Listen to the boos at the stadiums, the vitriol of the right wing talk radio hosts. Read social media.
So it is hard for the corporate NFL, it is lose lose. But they are still cowardly, all the same.
Original post by ByEeek
Agreed. So you have to wonder just how bad things are getting that sports pkayers are making a stand.
From my brief knowledge of these sort of things, it starts with peaceful protest, then it becomes violent protest, then it becomes civil war. I think we under estimate how Trump is dividing America with his devisive rhetoric.
From my brief knowledge of these sort of things, it starts with peaceful protest, then it becomes violent protest, then it becomes civil war. I think we under estimate how Trump is dividing America with his devisive rhetoric.
It all started because a **** player was about to lose his job and wanted the media onside.
Original post by zhog
Who's they, it can't be the protesters. They're quite well off and don't need any representation from Trump. Whatever that may mean.
That may be the real question for you but for me it is more when is America GOING TO BE united. Since we both agree 'divide will be caused'...
That may be the real question for you but for me it is more when is America GOING TO BE united. Since we both agree 'divide will be caused'...
At least 1 of them does believe that, they accused the police of racial profiling after a shooting at a casino full of black people, the police let dozens of black people out and detained the person who was acting suspiciously and seemed to be hiding from them yet it’s apparently racial profiling.
Original post by generallee
The NFL is craven. They are a big, capitalist corporation, in effect, and only care about the bottom line.
Kaepernick tarnished the brand so became persona non grata (as a QB he is good enough to be a starter in a handful of teams and a back up throughout the NFL). Now, since his protest has gained traction with the players (70% of whom are black) they are worried about a strike (surprisingly common in professional American sport). And if not an outright strike, troubles. No players, no product.
But they are caught between a rock and a hard place. NFL supporters don't tend to be BLM lefties. Its bedrock support is redneck working class white males. The Trump base. Why do you think the Donald spoke out in the first place?
TV ratings are in decline, whether this is linked to this campaign is hotly debated, the lefties vehemently dispute it, as you would expect. But that the campaign is unpopular with consumers of the NFL is indisputable. Listen to the boos at the stadiums, the vitriol of the right wing talk radio hosts. Read social media.
So it is hard for the corporate NFL, it is lose lose. But they are still cowardly, all the same.
Kaepernick tarnished the brand so became persona non grata (as a QB he is good enough to be a starter in a handful of teams and a back up throughout the NFL). Now, since his protest has gained traction with the players (70% of whom are black) they are worried about a strike (surprisingly common in professional American sport). And if not an outright strike, troubles. No players, no product.
But they are caught between a rock and a hard place. NFL supporters don't tend to be BLM lefties. Its bedrock support is redneck working class white males. The Trump base. Why do you think the Donald spoke out in the first place?
TV ratings are in decline, whether this is linked to this campaign is hotly debated, the lefties vehemently dispute it, as you would expect. But that the campaign is unpopular with consumers of the NFL is indisputable. Listen to the boos at the stadiums, the vitriol of the right wing talk radio hosts. Read social media.
So it is hard for the corporate NFL, it is lose lose. But they are still cowardly, all the same.
As someone who has watched the nfl for years let me tell you he isn’t good enough to be a starter, he was only successful because he was on the best team at the time in the nfl, the time for a qb with his skillset has passed.
There are plenty of people who have been good enough to be a backup but aren’t because they attract the wrong kind of media attention like kaepernick.
Original post by zhog
in the US, flag still hold much sway
You do realise that it is used to sell everything from beer to guns to porn, and is emblazoned on just about every trinket and piece of clothing you can imagine, including underwear.
Makes me laugh/cry that making a peaceful, silent protest about racial discrimination is "disrespecting the flag", but wedging it up between your bumcheeks isn't! *smh*
Also notice that Trump didn't accuse the Charlottesville Nazis who carried the Stars and Stripes of "disrespecting the flag".
Original post by joecphillips
As someone who has watched the nfl for years let me tell you he isn’t good enough to be a starter, he was only successful because he was on the best team at the time in the nfl, the time for a qb with his skillset has passed.
There are plenty of people who have been good enough to be a backup but aren’t because they attract the wrong kind of media attention like kaepernick.
There are plenty of people who have been good enough to be a backup but aren’t because they attract the wrong kind of media attention like kaepernick.
I said a handful of teams. He is talented enough to start for the Browns, Rams or Jets, I would argue. At his best wouldn't he be a big improvement?
I agree, though, that the NFL is unbelievably competitive, especially at Quarterback. So Franchises are not going to take on anyone with his kind of baggage, even as a back up.
He was never going to be a great, a Hall of Famer. Or even an above average starter. Maybe that is why he started this protest to get the fame his (comparative) lack of talent denied him?
He got that, but having half of America think you are a total cnunt is a double edged sword to say the least.
He will never play in the NFL again. Or get a coaching or TV job, either. He is finished in the sport.
That is what happens when you make yourself so hated. Hope he thinks it was worth it.
Original post by QE2
Makes me laugh/cry that making a peaceful, silent protest about racial discrimination is "disrespecting the flag", but wedging it up between your bumcheeks isn't! *smh*
Makes me laugh/cry that making a peaceful, silent protest about racial discrimination is "disrespecting the flag", but wedging it up between your bumcheeks isn't! *smh*
I've got a pair of Star Spangled Banner boxers, as it goes. Tommy Hilfiger. Got them in a pack of three, and they look quite fetching on me, though I say it myself.
I suppose you could argue that covering them with skiddies is a tad disrespectful, but then I am not American.
The BLM nutters, and their cheerleaders in the Democratic Party don't get how they have been played by Trump here, this is the bit that mystifies me.
He has managed to engineer it so that to be for them is to be in favour of disrespecting the flag, the country and its war dead.
And to be for Trump is to be in favour of patriotism and the American way. It is like, how is this a battle they could ever win?? Thick as mince...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-boasts-nfls-top-selling-jersey-and-theres-nothing-wrong-with-that/#52a4c658235f
He has managed to engineer it so that to be for them is to be in favour of disrespecting the flag, the country and its war dead.
And to be for Trump is to be in favour of patriotism and the American way. It is like, how is this a battle they could ever win?? Thick as mince...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-boasts-nfls-top-selling-jersey-and-theres-nothing-wrong-with-that/#52a4c658235f
Original post by astutehirstute
The BLM nutters, and their cheerleaders in the Democratic Party don't get how they have been played by Trump here, this is the bit that mystifies me.
He has managed to engineer it so that to be for them is to be in favour of disrespecting the flag, the country and its war dead.
And to be for Trump is to be in favour of patriotism and the American way. It is like, how is this a battle they could ever win?? Thick as mince...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-boasts-nfls-top-selling-jersey-and-theres-nothing-wrong-with-that/#52a4c658235f
He has managed to engineer it so that to be for them is to be in favour of disrespecting the flag, the country and its war dead.
And to be for Trump is to be in favour of patriotism and the American way. It is like, how is this a battle they could ever win?? Thick as mince...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-boasts-nfls-top-selling-jersey-and-theres-nothing-wrong-with-that/#52a4c658235f
If there's political calculation involved in this (and frankly, I'm not sure there is), it's preaching to the choir. People who already cared still care and people who didn't care still don't care. It's simply further solidified both groups' opinions about Trump.
Also worth noting that there does seem to be something of a gap between agreement and approval of Trump here. Some early polling seems to suggest that even groups who were set against the anthem protests and were essentially completely on the same page as Trump were noticeably less enthusiastic about his intervention itself.
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