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Why do people choose to go to Oxbridge?
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warblade
I can't agree that they have neither the best facilities neither the best academic staff / researchers.
I'd quite like to see you argue that there are UK universities which, as a whole, are better than Oxford or Cambridge for research.
cpj1987
'best' is subjective.
Best is based on research carried out by various companies into student satisfaction, student-tutor ratios, research spending and quality.
You base not wanting to go to Oxford purely on stereotypical preconceptions you have , did you even visit the place and/or talk to current students.
The main obsession as you say with league tables is justified. If your paying £X amount a year why not go to somewhere where your degree instantly has extra prestige with it. Why not go to a higher ranked university? Ever seen the correlation that the higher ranked universities have better research quality, lower student/staff ratio and hence a higher percentage of graduates get 'good honours'. Seems weird to me.
shinyhappy
Lol, I love the assumptions there. True in some cases, but I can honestly say that this year I've done no more than 20 hours work a week so far, which is quite low for a science course anywhere (what with practicals etc.) Also, people do have jobs! Especially now we're living out this year, and it's more expensive. I do go to a fairly relaxed college though, so I've no doubt there's a lot more truth in what you've said, for someone at somewhere like Merton.
Yep; they are complete, over-exaggerated assumptions - but they're the assumptions I've made from my experiences; which is why I would never have considered Oxbridge myself.
I thought there was a 'no jobs' rule, whether or not it was followed; and I didn't realise that people could get by at Oxbridge with so few hours' work - but the whole 'arrogance' this is my personal experience, and was by no means supposed to be stated as fact; in case it came out that way.
Tagit
Best is based on research carried out by various companies into student satisfaction, student-tutor ratios, research spending and quality.
You base not wanting going to Oxford purely on stereotypical preconceptions you have , did you even visit the place and/or talk to current students.
The main obsession as you say with league tables is justified. If your paying £X amount a year why not go to somewhere where your degree instantly has extra prestige with it. Why not go to a higher ranked university? Ever seen the correlation that the higher ranked universities have better research quality, lower student/staff ratio and hence a higher percentage of graduates get 'good honours'. Seems weird to me.
You base not wanting going to Oxford purely on stereotypical preconceptions you have , did you even visit the place and/or talk to current students.
The main obsession as you say with league tables is justified. If your paying £X amount a year why not go to somewhere where your degree instantly has extra prestige with it. Why not go to a higher ranked university? Ever seen the correlation that the higher ranked universities have better research quality, lower student/staff ratio and hence a higher percentage of graduates get 'good honours'. Seems weird to me.
I did speak to current students, yep. And I have nothing against Oxbridge; I just know it wouldn't have been for me - I prefer a less formal environment, and don't like the collegiate system.
Agreed, you're paying, so why not go wherever you want?
generalebriety
What experience? You said you'd never consider going there. I mean, I'll take it as read that you don't study there; but if you'd never consider going there, that probably means you've never been on an open day, didn't apply and consequently didn't go for interview, and probably have never visited the universities. So what are you basing your experience on?
Whatever it is, it's a completely different experience to mine. Most of the ********s get picked off at the interview.
Whatever it is, it's a completely different experience to mine. Most of the ********s get picked off at the interview.
Yep, it is a completely different experience to yours - and is only based on the Oxbridge students I know, and the things I've heard about Oxbridge (which generally are positive; but to ME are negative because they don't suit my tastes)
cpj1987
Yep; they are complete, over-exaggerated assumptions - but they're the assumptions I've made from my experiences; which is why I would never have considered Oxbridge myself.
I didn't consider UCLan because it's full of tourism-studying paupers whose idea of intellectual achievement is getting to £8,000 on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" having succesfully microwaved their own lasagne and not spilt any on themself yet.
cpj1987
I did speak to current students, yep. And I have nothing against Oxbridge; I just know it wouldn't have been for me - I prefer a less formal environment, and don't like the collegiate system.
Agreed, you're paying, so why not go wherever you want?
Agreed, you're paying, so why not go wherever you want?
Sometimes where you want to go is pointless and a waste of your time but you are to shortsighted to see or maybe you have realised you made a mistake but are to stubborn to admit it.
You want to spend £100k on an air guitar, fine. Ignore the people who said spend £100k on Hendrix's guitar. If your happy, I'm happy
.cpj1987
Fair enough.
You were meant to point out that it's a load of rubbish.
cpj1987
Yep; they are complete, over-exaggerated assumptions - but they're the assumptions I've made from my experiences; which is why I would never have considered Oxbridge myself.
I thought there was a 'no jobs' rule, whether or not it was followed; and I didn't realise that people could get by at Oxbridge with so few hours' work - but the whole 'arrogance' this is my personal experience, and was by no means supposed to be stated as fact; in case it came out that way.
I thought there was a 'no jobs' rule, whether or not it was followed; and I didn't realise that people could get by at Oxbridge with so few hours' work - but the whole 'arrogance' this is my personal experience, and was by no means supposed to be stated as fact; in case it came out that way.
Technically (at my college) there's a no job rule in first year, after that you're advised not to get a job. The contract you sign for college accommodation included an 'and I will not get a job' clause, but when living out, obviously they cannot enforce this. To be honest, I think that you could get away with having a job all the way through, if it did not interfere with your work.
Re. Arrogance etc, yes there are arrogant people, and I've no doubt a higher proportion of them than at other unis, but (as I mentioned in the other post) I hate it when they're applied to the whole uni in general, as it's largely not true!
warblade
I can't agree that they have neither the best facilities neither the best academic staff / researchers.
I assume that you mean that you can't agree that Oxford and Cambridge have the best facilities or the best academic staff. I suggest you look up the UK university research league tables. Oxford and Cambridge consistently come out at the top. This is because they attract some of the best academics in the world (by research, publication, and academic reputation. even if they aren't necessarily the best teachers), extremely high standard undergraduates and post-graduate researchers, a very substantial amount of research funding, and are rich, so can afford first class facilities. They might not be the best at everything, but on average they come out on top. The reason, therefore, that claim is made for them is because it is supported by the evidence.
I quite often have to do selections for jobs. When I am looking at application forms, I will often shortlist Oxford/Cambridge graduates provided they meet the essential criteria for the post because I know they are very bright, probably hard-working, and usually quite sparky. They might not succeed at interview, but they have a good chance of at least getting a foot in through the door. Once they have the job, they're on a level playing field with everyone else, and it's their performance in post that counts. That being said, they often turn out to be very good employees as well.
And that is why people like to have Oxford/Cambridge on their CVs.
Why do people choose to go to Oxbridge?
Well, SOME people will be ridiculous about it (the 'I must go there or I will die' types), but they really (really) are the minority. They also generally have the least idea what the place actually entails.
Why did I choose Cambridge? Because I had good grades, so was looking for a place that asked for the highest. I do English, which virtually every university does, so I was spoilt for choice. It would have been counter-intuitive for me to pick a uni that asked for, say, BBB or below, because my grades were higher than that. And there are very few universities that actually require AAB/AAA...Oxbridge being two of them. I could only apply to one of those, and prefered Cambridge as a place.
I would have been very happy to go to my 2nd choice (Birmingham), but as luck would have it I got a Cam offer. It asked the highest grades, so I stuck that as my first choice. As luck would also have it, I genuinely believe the opportunities here are way beyond what's available at most other universities -- but I've only really come to realise that through being here, and through trying to make the most of it.
BUT, as you can see from the above, I applied to it, and then picked it, because it was a realistic option. Just as anyone else would to any other university.
The uninformed prejudices against Oxbridge are only as annoying as the uninformed prejudices for it. There are lots of myths around the universities, both for and against it. All the stereotype are questionable.
Well, SOME people will be ridiculous about it (the 'I must go there or I will die' types), but they really (really) are the minority. They also generally have the least idea what the place actually entails.
Why did I choose Cambridge? Because I had good grades, so was looking for a place that asked for the highest. I do English, which virtually every university does, so I was spoilt for choice. It would have been counter-intuitive for me to pick a uni that asked for, say, BBB or below, because my grades were higher than that. And there are very few universities that actually require AAB/AAA...Oxbridge being two of them. I could only apply to one of those, and prefered Cambridge as a place.
I would have been very happy to go to my 2nd choice (Birmingham), but as luck would have it I got a Cam offer. It asked the highest grades, so I stuck that as my first choice. As luck would also have it, I genuinely believe the opportunities here are way beyond what's available at most other universities -- but I've only really come to realise that through being here, and through trying to make the most of it.
BUT, as you can see from the above, I applied to it, and then picked it, because it was a realistic option. Just as anyone else would to any other university.
The uninformed prejudices against Oxbridge are only as annoying as the uninformed prejudices for it. There are lots of myths around the universities, both for and against it. All the stereotype are questionable.
shinyhappy
Technically (at my college) there's a no job rule in first year, after that you're advised not to get a job. The contract you sign for college accommodation included an 'and I will not get a job' clause, but when living out, obviously they cannot enforce this. To be honest, I think that you could get away with having a job all the way through, if it did not interfere with your work.
Re. Arrogance etc, yes there are arrogant people, and I've no doubt a higher proportion of them than at other unis, but (as I mentioned in the other post) I hate it when they're applied to the whole uni in general, as it's largely not true!
Re. Arrogance etc, yes there are arrogant people, and I've no doubt a higher proportion of them than at other unis, but (as I mentioned in the other post) I hate it when they're applied to the whole uni in general, as it's largely not true!
Ah, thanks for explaining that job rule better.
Yeh, obviously I'm in no way applying arrogance to the whole university in general - there are arrogant people everywhere, and I'm sure there are A LOT of great people at Oxbridge (spoken to many on this site, for a start), but I'm just saying that in the past I've met a lot of individuals who are a bit 'I'm perfect, I got into Oxbridge'.
You'll get arrogant people everywhere, but those who're arrogant and use the fact that they're at Oxbridge as an excuse, are (obviously) only people who're at/alumni of Oxbridge; and I can't stand people like that; so being around them a lot would never have been good for me.
Obviously, they've every right to be proud; but not to think they're perfect.
I met an awful lot of self satisfied people at the Bristol Open Day. Far more, in fact, than I met in a week in Oxford. So to claim that there are more arrogant people at Oxbridge than anywhere else would be %%%%%%%%%%%%%%s.
People go to Oxbridge because it is the best for them. Maybe it's best because it is acknowledged to be the highest/best in British Higher Education. Maybe it's best because their course is more suited to their wants. Maybe it's the best because it can offer accommodation for the duration of their course. There are many reasons, but the fact is people choose it because they feel it is the best.
People go to Oxbridge because it is the best for them. Maybe it's best because it is acknowledged to be the highest/best in British Higher Education. Maybe it's best because their course is more suited to their wants. Maybe it's the best because it can offer accommodation for the duration of their course. There are many reasons, but the fact is people choose it because they feel it is the best.
cpj1987
Ah, thanks for explaining that job rule better.
Yeh, obviously I'm in no way applying arrogance to the whole university in general - there are arrogant people everywhere, and I'm sure there are A LOT of great people at Oxbridge (spoken to many on this site, for a start), but I'm just saying that in the past I've met a lot of individuals who are a bit 'I'm perfect, I got into Oxbridge'.
You'll get arrogant people everywhere, but those who're arrogant and use the fact that they're at Oxbridge as an excuse, are (obviously) only people who're at/alumni of Oxbridge; and I can't stand people like that; so being around them a lot would never have been good for me.
Obviously, they've every right to be proud; but not to think they're perfect.
Yeh, obviously I'm in no way applying arrogance to the whole university in general - there are arrogant people everywhere, and I'm sure there are A LOT of great people at Oxbridge (spoken to many on this site, for a start), but I'm just saying that in the past I've met a lot of individuals who are a bit 'I'm perfect, I got into Oxbridge'.
You'll get arrogant people everywhere, but those who're arrogant and use the fact that they're at Oxbridge as an excuse, are (obviously) only people who're at/alumni of Oxbridge; and I can't stand people like that; so being around them a lot would never have been good for me.
Obviously, they've every right to be proud; but not to think they're perfect.
Fair enough really! You're absolutely right that the unis won't suit everyone, and you seem to have perfectly logical reasoning as to why you wouldn't want to come! (Not least that the choice of courses here are limited, so many people who want more modern subjects will not find it suitable.)
I just want potential applicants who may well be reading this to see a reasoned point of view from both sides of the argument, as I get very defensive of the access scheme work, which is all about getting rid of the 'Oxbridge isn't for me' mentality
cpj1987
a lot of individuals who are a bit 'I'm perfect, I got into Oxbridge'
*shudders*
Yes.
There are also people who are like that in every walk of life, really -- it's just the 'excuse' that's tagged on that changes. Has to be said that most people at Oxbridge are perfectly normal. You also have to realise that when there they would look ridiculous if they said "I'm special, I go to Oxbridge", because all the other people around them would be, like, "Yeah...and?".
It also has to be said that a lot of non-Oxbridge people pounce on anyone who says they're at one of those universities, thinking they're being arrogant just for saying it. Er...no! If you're gonna ask "What uni are you at?" or "What're you doing at the moment?", then "I'm at Cam/Ox" is a perfectly valid response! *headdesk*
This is not non-Oxbridge bashing; I'm just pointing out that it works two ways. Arrogant Oxbridgers are annoying, but so are those totally anti-Oxbridge types. Keeps the world going round, I s'pose!
shinyhappy
Fair enough really! You're absolutely right that the unis won't suit everyone, and you seem to have perfectly logical reasoning as to why you wouldn't want to come! (Not least that the choice of courses here are limited, so many people who want more modern subjects will not find it suitable.)
I just want potential applicants who may well be reading this to see a reasoned point of view from both sides of the argument, as I get very defensive of the access scheme work, which is all about getting rid of the 'Oxbridge isn't for me' mentality
I just want potential applicants who may well be reading this to see a reasoned point of view from both sides of the argument, as I get very defensive of the access scheme work, which is all about getting rid of the 'Oxbridge isn't for me' mentality
I have no idea what the access scheme work is; care to explain what it is? Sounds interesting, and I'd just like to know.
Completely understandable that you want people to see both sides; so, as a disclaimer from me because I think I came across very differently to how I expected to:
Dear all,
I'm a very strong-minded person, with very clear ideas about what I want in life. So any opinions here are my own, personal opinions only - and should not be seen as fact or stereotype. Basically, unless you only want to know MY opinion from my posts, ignore me.
epitome
You also have to realise that when there they would look ridiculous if they said "I'm special, I go to Oxbridge", because all the other people around them would be, like, "Yeah...and?".
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