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Germany's Martin Schulz wants 'United States of Europe' within five years

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It's never going to happen so therefore there isnt much point in discussing something like this. Brexitards are keen on talking about this to undermine the EU. Lets be realistic here.
Original post by Chaz254
You are just talking utter **** simply because it is against the desires of Brexiteers.


Yeah. That really isn't it.
Don't we have enough problems in Britain to worry about before we consider what one German politician thinks?
Original post by Chaz254
"Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

You have no idea what you are talking about and you look extremely stupid when you call Trump a fascist, because he is not one. Read the definition and actually learn what Fascism is before claiming Trump is a fascist. Lmao, imagine calling a US president, the leader of the free world, a fascist.


You've completely missed my point.
Original post by Chaz254


They would force all countries to join the United States of Europe and the countries who refuse will get kicked out. This would certainly destroy the EU, once and for all, since it is unlikely the Eastern European countries, or many at all honestly, within the EU will comply with this ridiculousness.


Perfectly right Sir! The man has lost his sense of reality. East of Oder, even pro-EU are getting more and more sceptical. The EU is not going towards what we expected when we voted to join in.
Forget even actual regulations. In Poland, Czechy, Slovakia, Hungary etc. will get seriously angry if this plan comes to reality.
You may introduce even communism in economics and people will not give a toss about it, because they are too incompetent to see the consequences but they'll go mad if it involves name of the state they're living under, the flag and the illusion of independence.

Original post by AperfectBalance
The EU doing what Hitler couldn't


Reductio ad hitlerum here. Besides, it's going a bit different way. Merkel or Schulz are for Spinelli and Cudenhove-Kalergi, Hitler though not so far in terms of economics from them, would demand to have them being shot.
Original post by Chaz254
They would force all countries to join the United States of Europe and the countries who refuse will get kicked out.
how can you get kicked out of a club that you refuse to join ?

best
Reply 26
For a supposedly learned user base, the people commenting on this thread seem to be displaying a profound ignorance of what the EU is, what it stands for and Britain's role in it.
Original post by Chaz254
Can't even back up your claim so you come up with this 😂😂😂

Further proof that haters just use buzzwords even though they have no idea what they mean 🤣🤣🤣


Tell me what my claim is then? I'd like to see where I personally said, according to my own beliefs, that Trump is a fascist.
Reply 28
Article: "German man expresses an opinion"

OP: "Germany is attempting to conquer Europe!!!!!"

:rolleyes:
Original post by Chaz254
You're saying people are wrong for calling out those who wrongfully claim Trump is a fascist? Why would it be bad to call out people who spout **** they have no idea what they are talking about?


Nope! I'm saying that those who get angry when people say that Trump is a fascist (you) are also the ones who say that Germany is acting like it did in the 1930s/40s (also you). Practice what you preach and stop making false comparisons.
Original post by Trinculo
For anyone anti-Brexiteers who were ever in any doubt - this is the grand European vision - a confederacy under the strict control of Brussels via Berlin and Paris. All the things that historically Britain has been opposed to and that sceptics have warned about (that were dismissed by pro-EU people) have come to pass.

Just as we are leaving, they are putting together common defence policy. Now that we are leaving, they're emboldened to talk about a federal Europe.

Why would any sane person want Britain to remain in the EU?


This has always been the goal of the more ardent EU Commissionites and their friends in governments. The question is - to what extent is it shared by the citizenry - and will the latter have a say? People are not going to accept being driven into it without a vote. I think the crunch time is coming for the federal superstate project - and if that fails, as seems plausible, then the Euro will fail.

Of course, there could still be a 'Core Europa' of Germany, France, Benelux, Denmark, etc, but places like Italy and Greece have been severely damaged by the Euro and if they can't get full fiscal linkage and massive regional rebalancing, they will become completely failed states. Greece already pretty much is that.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
This has always been the goal of the more ardent EU Commissionites and their friends in governments. The question is - to what extent is it shared by the citizenry - and will the latter have a say? People are not going to accept being driven into it without a vote.


I don't recall having a vote on the first European Const- Lisbon Treaty.

It is one thing having to overcome public opposition when one can identify a discrete point at which individual nation states are being taken in to a superior federal union. If Martin Schulz's specific proposals didn't work out, however, the federalists have proven themselves very proficient at boiling frogs.

What I would do in that case, if I shared the federalists' position and aims, is seek to centralise further individual powers, gradually ratcheting up the overall authority of the central EU institutions, before eventually selling a United States of Europe Treaty as a mere rationalisation of the now present system.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
I don't recall having a vote on the first European Const- Lisbon Treaty.

It is one thing having to overcome public opposition when one can identify a discrete point at which individual nation states are being taken in to a superior federal union. If Martin Schulz's specific proposals didn't work out, however, the federalists have proven themselves very proficient at boiling frogs.

What I would do in that case, if I shared the federalists' position and aims, is seek to centralise further individual powers, gradually ratcheting up the overall authority of the central EU institutions, before eventually selling a United States of Europe Treaty as a mere rationalisation of the now present system.


You had a vote in general elections, though. Maybe you never; it would have been the 2005 election.
Original post by Chaz254
Voting in a UK general election has absolutely no relevance to EU votes. We the people don't get a say in EU affairs because unelected EU beaureucrats make all the decisions and laws.


The Treaty of Lisbon was brought into UK law by Act of Parliament. The MP representing your constituency would have voted on it. Did you not petition them? Tell him you'll sack him if he votes in favour? Or rather, did you not conceive to vote for someone not a in favour of EU integration?

Even if it were simply imposed by EU bureaucrats, passive acceptance of EU integration in general elections gives it democratic legitimacy, especially considering it was such a hot topic in all recent elections.
Not completely against it but it’s simply impossible to implement.
Original post by Chaz254
We the people don't get a say in EU affairs because unelected EU beaureucrats make all the decisions and laws.
what total nonsense

legislative decision-making power in the EU constitutional system rests with the Council (i.e. the national Governments, acting either unanimously or by qualified majority) and the European Parliament
Original post by Chaz254
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/07/martin-schulz-united-states-of-europe-germany-sdp

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/merkel-s-rival-martin-schulz-demands-a-united-states-of-europe-by-2025-as-price-of-coalition-9rg2dc57j

Of course it is Germany who want Europe to be one. They attempted (and failed) to conquer Europe in both World Wars and now they are attempting to do it again, through the EU.



They would force all countries to join the United States of Europe and the countries who refuse will get kicked out. This would certainly destroy the EU, once and for all, since it is unlikely the Eastern European countries, or many at all honestly, within the EU will comply with this ridiculousness.


How would the leader of a minor party enforce that on the other 27 members? Scaremongering again.
Original post by Chaz254
Voting in a UK general election has absolutely no relevance to EU votes. We the people don't get a say in EU affairs because unelected EU beaureucrats make all the decisions and laws.


Nonsense. You vote the government in and they go and represent us through the Council of Ministers. We also get to have people in the commission. the EU Commission dont make all the decisions. When you get to your GCSEs then I hope you learn how it really functions.
Original post by Chaz254
We weren't taught anything about the EU during GCSEs. The EU was not a current affair at the time of my GCSEs, like it certainly is now.

This will likely be a different case for you as it sounds like you are in your GCSEs, or perhaps Sixth Form at a stretch and they may teach about the EU if you did politics maybe. FYI, I'm at uni, so a few years of education above you.


Except even if I was in GCSEs then I'm correct an you are ignorant. You dont know what you are talking about. Are you studying the EU at Uni? I hope not.

The EU was not a current affair 5 years ago? Lol what planet are you on?

How come you dont understand how the commission and the distribution of power between the member states and the EU institutions work? Oooh look everyone else recognises you are speaking nonsense.... go figure.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Chaz254
They would force all countries to join the United States of Europe and the countries who refuse will get kicked out. This would certainly destroy the EU, once and for all, since it is unlikely the Eastern European countries, or many at all honestly, within the EU will comply with this ridiculousness.


Thank god, we don't need them. Just need the big old western countries plus the Nordics. Some of the others if they want are welcome, like Czech or the Baltics (they are very modern countries these days, I can only urge people to visit).

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