what is harder a medicine degree or A-levels?

I’m a current year 3 med student - year 4 fast approaching.

I would say that being a year 13 student and med applicant is harder than being a med student. The pressure of grades, complexity of material, on top of the stress of ucas/BMAT/ucat/interviews and balancing a job and other responsibilities made it a really really tough year.

As a med student, the workload is heavy and the pace is fast, the key is keeping up - if you got behind it would be really difficult to catch up. But the material isn’t harder than A level and it actually all fits together more logically than A level. I manage to fit in my course, a social life, SU commitments and a relationship with someone in a different uni town, and while this year has been more placement heavy than the first two years I’ve been chipping away at the study and feel on top of things. Life feels less stressful and more manageable than it did in year 13, and I’m someone who has struggled with mental health over the last few years. But discipline and good time management are the key imo.

You're correct that not doing Biology at A level isn't a problem in itself, although it reduces the number of Med Schools where you can apply, as some require it.

The majority of Med Schools require Chemistry A level even though there's not a lot of Chemistry content in the degree. I read that it's because a study found that the learning style required for A level chemistry is well suited to studying medicine.

Personally, I don't think you will know for sure until you actually do the degree. There were a few times when my daughter felt like giving up, and that didn't seem that uncommon, but she's a qualified doctor now. It's a challenging degree, but I suspect you knew that already.

BTW, I edited my original post with an additional comment, in case you didn't see it.

Medicine is harder than A-levels. For starters, the workload is wayy larger. It's also not just purely an academic subject, you have to be good at written exams and practical exams. You need to know: 10s of Examinations (& findings), pathophysiology/risk factors/aetiology/management of 100s of diseases, 20+ investigations, interpreting images, procedures, history taking, anatomy (bones, nerves, blood vessels, minutae into organs & how all this relates to each other), psychology/sociology, genetics, understanding & evaluating medical research, biochemistry, immunology, pharmacology, law and even more.

Imagine having to learn about every single organ system in the body and how things go wrong. I was only at medical school for a couple of years and we had to learn: musculoskeletal stuff, rheumatology & orthopaedics, dermatology, haematology, respiratory medicine, cardiology, renal, gastro, endocrinology, obs & gynae++ more.

I concede to this only: If you're studying Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry & learning STEP 1-3, you have a SLIGHT point. Higher level maths subjects (idk about the physics - i'm told it's difficult) are probably conceptually more difficult than medicine. There isn't anything in medicine like hard further maths questions. However, the workload in medicine is very high:

In a normal week: I had to be places 5days/week, write 3-6 pages of PBL, making presentation of my PBL topic, practice examinations on my friends/in hospital, go through 10 lectures (up to 70 slides)/week, make disease profiles, learn tons of anatomy and research stuff I didn't understand. I am probably forgetting stuff

This not including things like annual analytical review of medical literature, examined presentations, logbooks, exam revision, OSCE prep, uni medical society stuff.

So no, A-levels are not harder than medicine. You have much more free time during A-levels.

@utilitymaker hi! Thank you for your reply! Wow that definitely seems like a lot of different components! I don't do further maths or physics, so I'm not too sure, but I agree the volume of information would definitely be higher in med school.

That seems like a lot to do in just one week, do you think this varies a lot between the different medical schools?

I already have like no free-time during A-levels, so I'm not sure if I could do med school then haha.

You mention you were at med school for a couple of years, may I ask what you are currently doing and if you have pursued a different degree? If you don't want to say, then that's fine too

@utilitymaker hi! Thank you for your reply! Wow that definitely seems like a lot of different components! I don't do further maths or physics, so I'm not too sure, but I agree the volume of information would definitely be higher in med school.

That seems like a lot to do in just one week, do you think this varies a lot between the different medical schools?

I already have like no free-time during A-levels, so I'm not sure if I could do med school then haha.

You mention you were at med school for a couple of years, may I ask what you are currently doing and if you have pursued a different degree? If you don't want to say, then that's fine too

They’re very different, so you can’t compare directly. And as @ecolier points out Medicine is 5 years AND includes things you have to ‘learn’ in a very different way like histories, introducing yourself etc.

In general I’d say the main difference is that it’s a lot harder to get through a medicine degree without being fairly organised and doing some work With exams coming up, me and my friends are all swapping revision timetables, delegating who’ll make notes and do mini-tutorials on what topics, planning practical exam sessions, harassing older years for notes etc. This is all before we start exam leave and actual revision.

We’ve also just been on placement so you have to learn how to balance placement and what you can learn there, with the book learning you need to do as well for exams.

For A levels I literally just planned to do a past paper a day, and some people did basically nothing and did fine. With medicine the choice is little and often throughout the year or Death Revision in April

Medicine is also way more fun You don’t get let loose in a hospital during your A levels

It is a lot of components. However in terms of modules (usually 1 per specialty/body system), you only do 3 - 5 a year at my med school.
I think all medical schools are busy - expect to have way more contact hours compared to your peers on other courses. It is easily manageable if you do the reading each week. It's difficult to cram for medicine as there's so much information, and certain things you have to practice e.g. interpreting images, examinations, history taking, procedures.
My medical school had PBL so I had to do a lot of self directed learning & was required submit an essay and/or disease profiles + presentation every week! At a PBL med school your learning is dependant on your PBL group - you can submit crappy PBLs if you're really busy with other stuff... however it can catch up to you.

I'd suggest learning about the different course structures. I had NON-RECORDED spotty lectures as "you can't be expected to be spoonfed at university" and lots of PBL. imo I would have liked a traditional course structure better as the first 3 years seem to be based around lectures - as opposed to being chucked in a hospital in year 1.

And yes, I'm currently applying for a History & Politics degree (waiting for offers) - I came to despise medicine so I decided to leave last December.

Don't worry about the workload, at the end of the day, it's not exactly rocket science - it's fairly easy to understand, it's just very high volume. If you like medicine and find it fascinating (like many of my peers), you will do well. It's important to revise in a smart way, in US med schools they call certain topics "high yield" - essentially stuff you must learn as it is commonly examined and clinically relevant. Stick to high yield info, come for the rest later. I hated medicine but I still managed to pass my exams lol.

If you list every single learning component of a medicine degree to an18 year old it will sound scary. If you listed every single learning component of 12 x GCSE subjects to an 11 year old it would probably sound equally as scary.

I'm not saying it's not challenging, but as I said before it's probably wise to look at different course structures and what suits you best. My daughter avoided applying to any PBL based courses mentioned in the last reply, and applied to places which allowed more time for self directed learning.

Of course I haven't been a medical student myself but I do know that @becausethenight who responded earlier has a reputation for very good, well balanced advice, and @AnnaBananana seemed to make some very good points too

That's a good point and I didn't really think of it like that. It's a bit like when I looked at an A-level maths paper back in the summer of Y11 and wondered how on Earth I would be able to do that, but look where I am now!

Thank you, yes I think avoiding PBL courses would be a good idea for me and I think self-directed learning is definitely more suited for me. May I ask what unis your daughter applied to or any she would recommend in particular?

Thank you, yes they have both definitely made some good points!

My daughter studied at Leicester but applied 7 years ago, since when I know the course structure has changed.

A few pointers when you're deciding where to apply though:

As you aren't taking Biology A level then narrow down your list of possibilities by excluding those who have it as a mandatory requirement by using the downloadable PDF table in this link. You can also check that you meet all the other minimum entry requirements for each Med School. https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/making-an-application/entry-requirements

Ignore Leaugue Tables or any talk of particular Uni's being more prestiguous. The League Tables don't use any criteria which measures the quality of teaching or how prepared for their medical career graduates are when they leave. The standards set for medical degrees are defined by the GMC and where you study makes no difference whatsoever, either during the course or when you're applying for NHS training post graduation.

You need to apply to your strengths. Medical schools use different criteria for deciding who they interview and it varies a lot. Many applicants each year fail to get a single interview because they haven't applied strategically, whereas if they had applied elsewhere they would have been interviewed. For example there's one Med school which only interviews applicants who have 9 x A* GCSEs, whereas others will require only their minimum GCSE requirements to be met, and then interview based entirely on your UCAT aptitude test result. When you reach application time and have your UCAT and/or BMAT results you can get very good advice here https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7102578

A lot of applicants choices will have already been narrowed down because of the relative strengths of their GCSE's, A levels, UCAT performance, maybe even the level of work experience. If you have perfect GCSE's, great A level grades and a high UCAT score then you may be in the fortunate position of still having a full choice. At this point you can then move on to consider other factors such as your Uni preference based on gut instinct, course structure, distance from home etc

With regard the earlier discussion about PBL. If you search the internet you will find several lists of Medical Schools which are described as having PBL based course structures. Just a note of caution here that this can be misleading. Lots of Med schools use PBL as a small part of a more integrated course structure, whereas others use it quite extensively. If you're not in favour of PBL then you would probably need to check individual Uni websites to understand the extent its used. Also it is often described as self directed learning, but it's group based rather than individual study time.
Here's one link with a list https://www.uniadmissions.co.uk/application-guides/problem-based-learning-medical-school/

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Congrats to your daughter for having completing med school by the way! Thank you so much for the links I will definitely look at those to see where I can apply!

I did well in my GCSEs (8 9s and 2 8s) and I also did well in my mocks for A-level, so I think I should apply to places that value academic grades more than UCAT. I haven't obviously done my UCAT yet, so I don't really know how I've done, but I normally suck at aptitude tests, so I'm unsure as to how this is going to go.

I will take a look at when they talk about PBL thank you and I should probably take a deeper dive into whether I would definitely not like PBL. Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it and have a lovely day

We have case based learning which is related to the topic we’re currently on. So if we were looking at the cardiovascular system, our anatomy teaching would be on that system, our skills sessions would be on CV examinations, we would be looking at diseases and conditions affecting that system, pharmacology sessions would look at the appropriate drugs and treatments and we’d have case studies running, working in small groups looking at patients and situations.

It’s easy to say ‘I don’t like PBL’ if you’ve got no experience of it, which is the situation of most A level students. Most unis use a mixture of teaching methods, not one exclusively.

….At the end of the day, actually getting an interview and hopefully an offer is the main priority. If you have the luxury of picking your favourite course structure that's just a bonus. Successful applicants will just adapt to the teaching methods anyway.

Good luck with your upcoming exams! It sounds as though there is a good sense of community in medical school from the points you have made which sounds nice! That does sound like lots of organisation!

Probably taking it in small chunks is best and cramming does sound like a terrible idea haha, but I couldn't do nothing for my A-levels then I would definitely fail haha

I do like the sound of being let loose in a hospital

Over and above that, I like that my course has a range of different teaching methods as there’s a LOT to absorb and the variation keeps my brain moving.

Exactly…. I didn’t apply to oxford/Cambridge because I knew that the system of late patient contact and weekly essays wouldn’t suit how I learn or my priorities

Joke man

That all sounds sensible.

It's also worth noting that some Med Schools use a combination of GCSE and UCAT. For Leicester, for example, it looks like you score the full academic points, which would mean you only need an average UCAT score to achieve an interview. In fact, if you're taking a gap year and already have achieved A levels, they will tell you what decile UCAT score you require for a guaranteed interview.

Medify is a good practice tool for UCAT. The official line is that you can't improve your UCAT score through practice, but I know quite a few people who have done. Apart from anything else it makes you more familiar with the format of questions, your timing etc. There are a number of sites which have free questions you can familiarise yourself with, for more intensive practice expect to pay around £50 for a month's access. That's something for next year though.

On PBL, I guess it is self directed but it's self directed on a topic not of your choosing, and you're working in groups, which could be a positive or negative dependent on the composition of the group. My daughter preferred just the half day contact time so she could concentrate her individual study time where she needed it most. I think you're right though that you should find out more about it.