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Should we learn to speak Esperanto?

Esperanto is an easy to learn language (with only 16 rules). It was invented in 1887 with the intention of becoming a universal language, so you would learn your own native language first then Esperanto second and everyone else in the world would do the same, so everyone would have a common language.

I think Esperanto would be beneficial as a universal language because unlike English it's easy to learn and doesn't have the same colonising history behind it.

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I've often thought that it would have been good if Esperanto had kicked off, but it didn't, so there's not much point in learning it now.

Latin was once the universal language - it still is if you consider scientific names for things, plus Latin masses are still held around the world (albeit much more selectively than they used to be).
no i think that Volapük should be compulsory
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
I've often thought that it would have been good if Esperanto had kicked off, but it didn't, so there's not much point in learning it now.

Latin was once the universal language - it still is if you consider scientific names for things, plus Latin masses are still held around the world (albeit much more selectively than they used to be).

I suppose the problem with latin would be it’s a very difficult language to learn and new words for new inventions like computers tvs ect. Haven’t really been agreed on.
So I would go for Esperanto the second option but only for those reasons. It’s a shame it never really caught on.
Original post by the bear
no i think that Volapük should be compulsory


How come?
Original post by Stressed_0ut
How come?


Pük bal neföro saidon
There are some "native" speakers of Esperanto (children whose parent's raised them to speak Esperanto as a first language). I don't think the number of "rules" or not has much influence on whether a language is easy to learn - Esperanto's grammar and vocabulary is primarily derived from Indo-European languages (especially the European branch) and so while likely "easy" to learn for IE language family speakers, may be more challenging for those whose L1 is a language from another language group (e.g. Arabic, Chinese, Swahili, etc) which have fewer features and vocabulary in common for learning as an L2.

Also practically speaking as a modern language Esperanto doesn't "add" much value as an L2 compared to learning a mainstream European language, particularly for those not from a background speaking an IE family language, since there's nowhere that speaking Esperanto is really going to be a useful skill. And unlike ancient languages, there isn't much of an Esperanto culture/corpus that makes it worthwhile to study for the purpose of reading those texts. So it's very much something to do for the sake of doing - perfectly reasonable, but as noted there's no real impetus to do so and since it hasn't already happened, it probably won't.

Finally, you could make arguments for learning any number of languages first - I'd contend Sanskrit would be the best option in the IE family since it's so well defined and codified, and the structure by and large makes a great deal of logical sense (plus, all the cases lay the groundwork for studying any other inflected IE language - there are also a number of cognates with modern European languages too, both from where the words developed independently from the Proto-Indo-European origins, and where the word was brought in as a loanword from Sanskrit or a later Indic language) :tongue:
Original post by the bear
Pük bal neföro saidon


One language is never enough?
sorry I have to be honest and admit I have no clue what you just wrote.

I suppose with volapük although it was intended to be a universal language it’s harder to learn than Esperanto and it excludes many other widely spoken languages (like Spanish, French and Italian) because it is a germanic language.
Original post by artful_lounger
There are some "native" speakers of Esperanto (children whose parent's raised them to speak Esperanto as a first language). I don't think the number of "rules" or not has much influence on whether a language is easy to learn - Esperanto's grammar and vocabulary is primarily derived from Indo-European languages (especially the European branch) and so while likely "easy" to learn for IE language family speakers, may be more challenging for those whose L1 is a language from another language group (e.g. Arabic, Chinese, Swahili, etc) which have fewer features and vocabulary in common for learning as an L2.

Also practically speaking as a modern language Esperanto doesn't "add" much value as an L2 compared to learning a mainstream European language, particularly for those not from a background speaking an IE family language, since there's nowhere that speaking Esperanto is really going to be a useful skill. And unlike ancient languages, there isn't much of an Esperanto culture/corpus that makes it worthwhile to study for the purpose of reading those texts. So it's very much something to do for the sake of doing - perfectly reasonable, but as noted there's no real impetus to do so and since it hasn't already happened, it probably won't.

Finally, you could make arguments for learning any number of languages first - I'd contend Sanskrit would be the best option in the IE family since it's so well defined and codified, and the structure by and large makes a great deal of logical sense (plus, all the cases lay the groundwork for studying any other inflected IE language - there are also a number of cognates with modern European languages too, both from where the words developed independently from the Proto-Indo-European origins, and where the word was brought in as a loanword from Sanskrit or a later Indic language) :tongue:

I wonder if because there are so many different types of alphabets in the world. Would it be possible to learn to speak Esperanto but write it down phonetically in your native alphabet. So you can still speak and pronounce it whilst it doesn’t discriminate against your alphabet, plus it’s easier for you to learn and other Esperanto speakers will be able to understand your pronunciations
Reply 9
bring back Skt
Esperwhato? Perfectly content with English, cheers.
Original post by Stressed_0ut
I wonder if because there are so many different types of alphabets in the world. Would it be possible to learn to speak Esperanto but write it down phonetically in your native alphabet. So you can still speak and pronounce it whilst it doesn’t discriminate against your alphabet, plus it’s easier for you to learn and other Esperanto speakers will be able to understand your pronunciations

The thing is, not all other scripts are alphabets - Sanskrit for example has a syllabary - and also not all languages feature or distinguish between all phonetic values (which is why you have e.g. [L] and [R] being confused by many Japanese native speakers when learning English, because the two sounds are not well distinguished in Japanese). Also in the case of Japanese and Chinese (maybe also Korean) logographic scripts where a single character can be a syllable (as with Sanskrit) or even multiple syllables in some cases. Also fundamentally script =/= language. Sanskrit is written typically (historically) in Devanagari script, but that script can also be used to write e.g. Pali or Hindi, and Sanskrit can also be (and was) written in other scripts (particularly in South East Asia, and possibly Central Asia).

Of course one can, in theory, write any language in any given script provided you have a suitable transliteration system set up - you can write Sanskrit in Roman script (i.e. "English" script) using one of several different transliteration formats. However not all scripts will "natively" have ways to represent all phonetic values in a given language - Roman script can compensate for this in some respects with diacritics that aren't normally used in many/any of the languages that normally use that script, other scripts may or may not be able to do that.

So it's important to understand the difference between language and writing, and that written language and spoken language are different in some respects (usually linguists consider spoken language to have primacy over written language, although I think some historical linguists have argued against that as a purely descriptivist approach to spoken language may not always capture certain features of the language which are still considered important in written form?).

Also even that aside, it's not just about the phonetic inventory of Esperanto vs other languages - the fundamental grammar of the languages may be very different and one or the other may have grammatical features not present in others. Esperanto is I gather mildly inflected - some languages are heavily inflected while others are purely synthetic. While in the European language regime the more synthetic languages like English and French may be able to "compensate" by having shared vocabulary and other grammatical features, other world languages don't have that luxury necessarily!
(edited 1 year ago)
I don't see the point. No country or territory speaks the language, so it has no real use :dontknow:
Original post by rosy_posy
I don't see the point. No country or territory speaks the language, so it has no real use :dontknow:


To be fair no country or territory speaks e.g. Sumerian, but it's still of cultural and academic interest to a number of groups of people. However in the case of Esperanto as I noted, it doesn't have much of a corpus of works to study - I imagine there probably are SOME texts written in Esperanto, I can't say whether they're of any interest to historians/literary critics/philologists/etc for any reason except that they were written in Esperanto though.
Original post by Stressed_0ut
...because unlike English it's easy to learn and doesn't have the same colonising history behind it.


What in earth does that mean? 'colonising history'?
Original post by Reality Check
What in earth does that mean? 'colonising history'?


I assume they mean colonialist implications behind the spread of the language and adoption of it as a widespread language. However this is true of basically any widespread world language - Spanish, Portuguese, English, Arabic, even historically Latin, Sanskrit etc all were a result of that.

OP has sort of missed that almost necessarily imposing any language upon other groups itself does have colonialist implications - invariably it benefits one group to have everyone speaking the same language more than another (also in this case, Esperanto being almost purely constructed on the basis of European language forms, very much just continues that programme).

The only way to avoid that would be to encourage purely native/indigenous languages/dialects, but that then runs contrary to the aim of trying to create any kind of universal language, and even having mutually intelligible indigenous languages/dialects in a region isn't always likely!
Original post by gjd800
bring back Skt


PRSOM :biggrin:
Original post by artful_lounger
I assume they mean colonialist implications behind the spread of the language and adoption of it as a widespread language. However this is true of basically any widespread world language - Spanish, Portuguese, English, Arabic, even historically Latin, Sanskrit etc all were a result of that.

OP has sort of missed that almost necessarily imposing any language upon other groups itself does have colonialist implications - invariably it benefits one group to have everyone speaking the same language more than another (also in this case, Esperanto being almost purely constructed on the basis of European language forms, very much just continues that programme).

The only way to avoid that would be to encourage purely native/indigenous languages/dialects, but that then runs contrary to the aim of trying to create any kind of universal language, and even having mutually intelligible indigenous languages/dialects in a region isn't always likely!

Yes, quite. :smile: PRSOM
No. English already exists as a universal language. We don’t need to fix something that isn’t broken.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Stressed_0ut
One language is never enough?
sorry I have to be honest and admit I have no clue what you just wrote.

:congrats:
that is exactly right ! clearly Volapük is accessible to anyone of normal ability :h:

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