The Student Room Group

State pretend incompetence

Does anyone have an insight as to why LibDem states pretend to be politically incompetent and as a result, use this feigned incompetence as an excuse to privatise public institutions, or at least, hire the private sector to 'fix' the public sector? For example, the PFI scheme in the UK isn't working as expected; the privatisation of Thames, energy, and Rail, all of which have resulted in increased cost of living with low efficiency.
Reply 1
Original post by LegalTom
Does anyone have an insight as to why LibDem states pretend to be politically incompetent and as a result, use this feigned incompetence as an excuse to privatise public institutions, or at least, hire the private sector to 'fix' the public sector? For example, the PFI scheme in the UK isn't working as expected; the privatisation of Thames, energy, and Rail, all of which have resulted in increased cost of living with low efficiency.

I don't think there is any pretence. But equally the idea of privatisation does have some weight. In theory, (and note I say in theory) the idea of capitalism is that economic competition drives efficiency and cost savings. We see this in the technology and automotive word perfectly. Lots of companies competing for customers and in doing so innovating new better and cheaper products to entice them to spend their money. Perfect.

Except in the service world and specifically in health, who wants to go with the cheapest bidder? Also, it has been seen time and again the poor procurement in government sees private companies taking the p1ss and over charging whilst offering a bargain basement service in order to maximise profit.

As for utilities - well that is an utter disaster. No competition and no incentive to provide a good service but people have to pay whether they like it or not. They are the ultimate monopolies. Same with rail. Train companies consistently put on poor services with absolutely no come back from passengers of regulators. They are in a world of their own.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Lib Dems though.
Reply 2
Original post by hotpud
I don't think there is any pretence. But equally the idea of privatisation does have some weight. In theory, (and note I say in theory) the idea of capitalism is that economic competition drives efficiency and cost savings. We see this in the technology and automotive word perfectly. Lots of companies competing for customers and in doing so innovating new better and cheaper products to entice them to spend their money. Perfect.

Except in the service world and specifically in health, who wants to go with the cheapest bidder? Also, it has been seen time and again the poor procurement in government sees private companies taking the p1ss and over charging whilst offering a bargain basement service in order to maximise profit.

As for utilities - well that is an utter disaster. No competition and no incentive to provide a good service but people have to pay whether they like it or not. They are the ultimate monopolies. Same with rail. Train companies consistently put on poor services with absolutely no come back from passengers of regulators. They are in a world of their own.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Lib Dems though.

It's important to note the distinction here between privatisation and marketisation.

In things like rail and water what we have seen is privatisation but under a franchise model which means that marketisation is miniminal. Rail franchises do require an auction and committment to funding new stock and the like but in water for example, there appears to be almost no competition due to the structure imposed upon the sector by the state.

I tend to think that utilities statement is broad brush in two areas though..

1) Broadband - While Openreach receives critisism for its links to BT and i'd suggest that a part nationalised transmitter would be best, mobile broadband is arguably a substantial private success and even amongst non-mobile broadband, the sector appears to function pretty well. I'd say the sector should get 7/10.

2) Energy - As much as people hate on the energy sector, there is nothing about the inflationary shock that would not have occured in a non-privatised model. Energy is basically seperated into three with production, wholesale transmission and retail. This broadly works pretty well normally with good levels of compeition in the retail sector and auctions for production rights rarely coming up short at any scale that would worry us.

The reason we were exposed during the current current crisis is essentially that we chose to be a net importer of energy to outsource our climate emmisions. Had government held auctions and provided the required tax incentives, we could have been in a position to avoid this.

My pet annoyance with energy is National Grid which owned by Transco is a private monopoly albeit which one which tries to do its job unlike the water sector.

It gets a 5/10. Not the worst model but ideally i would part nationalise the National Grid and develop a much firmer energy strategy. I'd keep the current structure though.

..

I should add that i want to see the current water franchises torn up and the energy market structure replicated here. We should hold auctions to supply desalination or reservoirs, we should have a 51% publicly owned National Grid Water (or British Grid Water ideally of course) and then we should have retail compeition with every household being metered.

Rail, i am somewhat undecided as to the optimum structure.
Reply 3
Original post by hotpud
I don't think there is any pretence. But equally the idea of privatisation does have some weight. In theory, (and note I say in theory) the idea of capitalism is that economic competition drives efficiency and cost savings. We see this in the technology and automotive word perfectly. Lots of companies competing for customers and in doing so innovating new better and cheaper products to entice them to spend their money. Perfect.

Except in the service world and specifically in health, who wants to go with the cheapest bidder? Also, it has been seen time and again the poor procurement in government sees private companies taking the p1ss and over charging whilst offering a bargain basement service in order to maximise profit.

As for utilities - well that is an utter disaster. No competition and no incentive to provide a good service but people have to pay whether they like it or not. They are the ultimate monopolies. Same with rail. Train companies consistently put on poor services with absolutely no come back from passengers of regulators. They are in a world of their own.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Lib Dems though.

By Lib dems I mean nations that are liberal and democratic in the west - implying that they adopt liberal economic principles.

Also, I understand the efficiency of the market when it comes to entrepreneurship: the incentive to innovate a product or method is heavily down to demand and the fear of death by obsoletion. However, when it comes to service-based institutions whose functions is driven by public needs, the market is inefficient because of monopsonies!

The state has the capability to-develop talents and adequately invest in these institutions, but it instead weaponises its incompetence and licenses out - partially/fully - the ownership of these institutions to the private sector(happens because of the chumminess between the plutocrats and money hungry private sector)leading to inefficiencies!

The public sector has intentionally decided to beincompetent for the interests of the private sector!The NHS is currently headed that way!!!
(edited 3 months ago)
Reply 4
Original post by Rakas21
It's important to note the distinction here between privatisation and marketisation.

In things like rail and water what we have seen is privatisation but under a franchise model which means that marketisation is miniminal. Rail franchises do require an auction and committment to funding new stock and the like but in water for example, there appears to be almost no competition due to the structure imposed upon the sector by the state.

I tend to think that utilities statement is broad brush in two areas though..

1) Broadband - While Openreach receives critisism for its links to BT and i'd suggest that a part nationalised transmitter would be best, mobile broadband is arguably a substantial private success and even amongst non-mobile broadband, the sector appears to function pretty well. I'd say the sector should get 7/10.

2) Energy - As much as people hate on the energy sector, there is nothing about the inflationary shock that would not have occured in a non-privatised model. Energy is basically seperated into three with production, wholesale transmission and retail. This broadly works pretty well normally with good levels of compeition in the retail sector and auctions for production rights rarely coming up short at any scale that would worry us.

The reason we were exposed during the current current crisis is essentially that we chose to be a net importer of energy to outsource our climate emmisions. Had government held auctions and provided the required tax incentives, we could have been in a position to avoid this.

My pet annoyance with energy is National Grid which owned by Transco is a private monopoly albeit which one which tries to do its job unlike the water sector.

It gets a 5/10. Not the worst model but ideally i would part nationalise the National Grid and develop a much firmer energy strategy. I'd keep the current structure though.

..

I should add that i want to see the current water franchises torn up and the energy market structure replicated here. We should hold auctions to supply desalination or reservoirs, we should have a 51% publicly owned National Grid Water (or British Grid Water ideally of course) and then we should have retail compeition with every household being metered.

Rail, i am somewhat undecided as to the optimum structure.

Rail franchises do require an auction and committment to funding new stock

Indeed. But what happens is rail companies bid for the franchise then find loopholes to cancel trains whilst still pocketing the lucrative subsidies because it is written in the contract. During the train strikes, the government is paying the franchises compensation for loss of earnings. You couldn't make it up!

1) Broadband
Agreed. But there is a reasonable level playing field which allows competitors to compete based on service, speed or reliability. And the price differences are significant.

2) Energy
Is a total joke and is not competitive at all. The concept of different suppliers makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It pretty much comes from the same place, is delivered along the same pipes / cables at a fixed cost. The only thing companies can compete on is customer service and that is marginal at best. The only place where companies sometimes get better deals is if they effectively gamble on the market but there is no efficiency gains that cause a reduction in costs.

The current situation where the government has had to step in to fix the price of energy shows how broken the energy market it and the fact we have a ridiculous framework where cheap energy produced by renewables and nuclear is sold expensive at oil and gas prices shows just how ridiculous the whole system is. If the market is to work, I want to be able to choose to buy only renewable energy from such a windfarm. I can't do that for lots of good reasons. Just nationalise the lot and charge a cost price. Why do the energy companies who are polluting this earth have to make billions in profit. It is obscene.

Water
Pointless. There is no competition and all that has happened is privatisation has allowed companies to borrow many, which to be fair and rightly so, public bodies can not do. Except instead of reinvest that money back into the network, they have given it to shareholders. So now we have heavily indebted water companies presiding over crumbling infrastructure and have resumed our noble title last owned in the 80s and early 90s as "The dirty man of Europe". I fondly remember swimming in the sea at Filey as a kid and seeing a turd floating past.

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