The most prestigious college at Oxford University?
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Original post by Stiffy Byng
I mean what follows kindly. You keep repeating the same points. You do not appear to listen to well informed advice.
Your looks will have zero influence on the Oxford admissions process.
You will not be offered a place at Oxford simply because of your ethnicity.
All or most college Oxford libraries are open 24/7. Many colleges at Oxford offer three years of accomodation. Many colleges have gyms.
As a mature student, you might consider Harris Manchester College.
Learning at Oxford involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
Practising law involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
My daughter did the IB in 2023 and scored 44, with a mix of 7s and 6s. She studied history, English, French, maths, physics, and chemistry. She scored 33 in the LNAT. She had two interviews at her chosen college. She says that the interviews were challenging. One involved discussing a statute, the other a case.
Good luck with your studies.
Your looks will have zero influence on the Oxford admissions process.
You will not be offered a place at Oxford simply because of your ethnicity.
All or most college Oxford libraries are open 24/7. Many colleges at Oxford offer three years of accomodation. Many colleges have gyms.
As a mature student, you might consider Harris Manchester College.
Learning at Oxford involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
Practising law involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
My daughter did the IB in 2023 and scored 44, with a mix of 7s and 6s. She studied history, English, French, maths, physics, and chemistry. She scored 33 in the LNAT. She had two interviews at her chosen college. She says that the interviews were challenging. One involved discussing a statute, the other a case.
Good luck with your studies.
Original post by gjd800
Your posts here have been excellent, but I fear that you are wasting your time with this poster.
Thanks!
"You can lead a horse to water. You cannot make it drink".
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by Stiffy Byng
I mean what follows kindly. You keep repeating the same points. You do not appear to listen to well informed advice.
Your looks will have zero influence on the Oxford admissions process.
You will not be offered a place at Oxford simply because of your ethnicity.
All or most Oxford college libraries are open 24/7. Many colleges at Oxford offer three years of accommodation. Many Oxford colleges have gyms.
As a mature student, you might consider Harris Manchester College.
Learning at Oxford involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
Practising law involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
My daughter did the IB in 2023 and scored 44, with a mix of 7s and 6s. She studied history, English, French, maths, physics, and chemistry. She scored 33 in the LNAT. She had two interviews at her chosen college. She says that the interviews were challenging. One involved discussing a statute, the other a case.
Good luck with your studies.
Your looks will have zero influence on the Oxford admissions process.
You will not be offered a place at Oxford simply because of your ethnicity.
All or most Oxford college libraries are open 24/7. Many colleges at Oxford offer three years of accommodation. Many Oxford colleges have gyms.
As a mature student, you might consider Harris Manchester College.
Learning at Oxford involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
Practising law involves reading (LOTS of reading), writing, talking, and, importantly, listening.
My daughter did the IB in 2023 and scored 44, with a mix of 7s and 6s. She studied history, English, French, maths, physics, and chemistry. She scored 33 in the LNAT. She had two interviews at her chosen college. She says that the interviews were challenging. One involved discussing a statute, the other a case.
Good luck with your studies.
St. John's College, Oxford University is one of the wealthiest colleges at Oxford University and therefore they have the lowest priced accommodation, the lowest cost of food and drink and they also have every book you could want to read in their 3 libraries. As well as 2 gyms on site and accommodation is also on-site. That's why, I am attracted to the college but mainly because they are one of the most academic colleges at Oxford University.
I am not bothered if I don't get in, as there are also offers possible from LSE, UCL, KCL and SOAS here in London.
I have been reading Criminal Law, Tort Law and Constitutional Law eBooks, and you're totally right, there is so much reading. But I don't mind devoting endless hours to reading in the libraries of Oxford University or London either.
Wow...I wonder if your daughter used Arbitio for the LNAT to achieve such a high score? LNAT Preparation Online | Practice Tests and Essays | Arbitio
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by gjd800
Your posts here have been excellent, but I fear that you are wasting your time with this poster.
I am not trying to make you do anything. Nor am I merely pointing out that there are colleges other than St John's.
I have offered some pointers based on relevant experience and reliable sources of information. It's up to you what to make of advice. I again encourage you to be a good listener, and to be realistic in your expectations of what does and does not make a good candidate for admission to the UK's leading universities. At Oxford, the academic potential to do well within the tutorial system of teaching is probably the key factor.
My daughter did not use Arbitio to prepare for the LNAT.
PS: Stiffy Byng is the name of a female character in the works of PG Wodehouse.
I have offered some pointers based on relevant experience and reliable sources of information. It's up to you what to make of advice. I again encourage you to be a good listener, and to be realistic in your expectations of what does and does not make a good candidate for admission to the UK's leading universities. At Oxford, the academic potential to do well within the tutorial system of teaching is probably the key factor.
My daughter did not use Arbitio to prepare for the LNAT.
PS: Stiffy Byng is the name of a female character in the works of PG Wodehouse.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by Stiffy Byng
I am not trying to make you do anything. Nor am I merely pointing out that there are colleges other than St John's.
I have offered some pointers based on relevant experience and reliable sources of information. It's up to you what to make of advice. I again encourage you to be a good listener, and to be realistic in your expectations of what does and does not make a good candidate for admission to the UK's leading universities. At Oxford, the academic potential to do well within the tutorial system of teaching is probably the key factor.
My daughter did not use Arbitio to prepare for the LNAT.
PS: Stiffy Byng is the name of a female character in the works of PG Wodehouse.
I have offered some pointers based on relevant experience and reliable sources of information. It's up to you what to make of advice. I again encourage you to be a good listener, and to be realistic in your expectations of what does and does not make a good candidate for admission to the UK's leading universities. At Oxford, the academic potential to do well within the tutorial system of teaching is probably the key factor.
My daughter did not use Arbitio to prepare for the LNAT.
PS: Stiffy Byng is the name of a female character in the works of PG Wodehouse.
I have found some old textbooks from the year 2000 on eBay, for Maths and Further Maths with very hard review exercise questions and will be solving them in hope of 2A star grades. The grade boundaries are not too high for A grades, but I might also achieve an A star in one of the languages or Chemistry as well. But, all said and done, AAA is the Oxford offer for Law and they demand a very high LNAT score to be shortlisted for interview.
Thanks so much for your advice. I might meet you in a Barrister's Chambers, like Matrix Chambers or Essex Court Chambers when I shadow a barrister for 2 to 3 days.
lol PS: You have to sit A-Level Maths first i.e. in one year, as the timetable even shows the Further Maths papers are before the Maths papers. That's why, I am sitting A-Level Maths only in June 2025 next year. It is not too difficult with the outstanding resources available, from the online solutionbanks and videos on YouTube to colour textbooks.
(edited 1 month ago)
I am not at Matrix or at Essex Court. I was for many years busy at one of the biggest sets of chambers in London. I have recently moved to a somewhat smaller set of chambers, for a more relaxed pace of life, as I am no longer a young person. I hope that you have an enjoyable time visiting chambers.
My suggestion to you is to read widely in many subjects. A good lawyer ought, I suggest, to be a well informed person, and not just know the law. The ability to apply critical reasoning is important for all subjects at Oxford, and at all good universities. Reading The Economist, the Weekend FT, and the London Review of Books may assist in preparation for university. If you can afford it, a subscription to the London Library would be a good idea. It has a huge collection of books and journals, open book stacks, a relaxed lending policy, and a lovely reading room.
https://www.londonlibrary.co.uk/
Do you need to take so many exams? Oxford does not insist on four or five A levels. Three good A levels are sufficient. Oxford Dons look at the overall picture, based on all the information which they have about a candidate's academic potential. It's up to you which college you apply to (remembering, as discussed above, that you might end up at another college), but have you considered and discounted Harris Manchester College? The Fellows of that college have special experience in assessing the applications of mature students.
St John's is of course a great college. I have happy memories of sitting in a beautiful room there in my final year, attending specialist seminars led by Keith Thomas, who is possibly the greatest living historian. He was at St John's then, before he moved to be the President of Corpus.
One of the pleasures of the undergraduate experience at Oxford is that a student is likely to be taught at more than one college. I had most of my tutorials at Wadham, but I was also taught at Pembroke, All Souls, Magdalen, St John's, and St Hugh's.
As before, I wish you luck in your studies.
My suggestion to you is to read widely in many subjects. A good lawyer ought, I suggest, to be a well informed person, and not just know the law. The ability to apply critical reasoning is important for all subjects at Oxford, and at all good universities. Reading The Economist, the Weekend FT, and the London Review of Books may assist in preparation for university. If you can afford it, a subscription to the London Library would be a good idea. It has a huge collection of books and journals, open book stacks, a relaxed lending policy, and a lovely reading room.
https://www.londonlibrary.co.uk/
Do you need to take so many exams? Oxford does not insist on four or five A levels. Three good A levels are sufficient. Oxford Dons look at the overall picture, based on all the information which they have about a candidate's academic potential. It's up to you which college you apply to (remembering, as discussed above, that you might end up at another college), but have you considered and discounted Harris Manchester College? The Fellows of that college have special experience in assessing the applications of mature students.
St John's is of course a great college. I have happy memories of sitting in a beautiful room there in my final year, attending specialist seminars led by Keith Thomas, who is possibly the greatest living historian. He was at St John's then, before he moved to be the President of Corpus.
One of the pleasures of the undergraduate experience at Oxford is that a student is likely to be taught at more than one college. I had most of my tutorials at Wadham, but I was also taught at Pembroke, All Souls, Magdalen, St John's, and St Hugh's.
As before, I wish you luck in your studies.
Original post by thegeek888
The most prestigious college at Oxford University?
Merton? Magdalen? Christchurch?
Merton? Magdalen? Christchurch?
But if we are going to REALLY push on this.... then All Souls would have to be the 'most prestigious' college based on the fact it's the most difficult to get into....fact.
For those unfamilar with All Souls College, it is a college which has no undergraduate or postgraduate students. It awards Prize Fellowships to graduates by competitive examination, and also elects as Fellows eminent scholars in many fields. All Souls has very fine buildings, and a beautiful library, which can be used by students with an introduction from their college.
The Fellows engage in research and writing, and some also teach members of other colleges. Some Prize Fellows become career academics. Some do things such as practise at the Bar, join the Civil Service, and so on.
The list of past and present Fellows of All Souls is illustrious. So too is the list of big names who took the Prize Fellowship exam but did not obtain a Fellowship.
The Fellows engage in research and writing, and some also teach members of other colleges. Some Prize Fellows become career academics. Some do things such as practise at the Bar, join the Civil Service, and so on.
The list of past and present Fellows of All Souls is illustrious. So too is the list of big names who took the Prize Fellowship exam but did not obtain a Fellowship.
(edited 1 month ago)
By the way, thegeek888, obtaining a work experience place or, later, a mini pupillage at the leading sets of chambers are competitive processes. Many apply for such opportunities, and there are not many places available.
Thereafter, obtaining a pupillage at any set of chambers is difficult. Obtaining a pupillage at a top set is super-difficult.
The destination is worth getting to, but the road is long and hard. It is not all work and no play, but there is a lot of work.
Thereafter, obtaining a pupillage at any set of chambers is difficult. Obtaining a pupillage at a top set is super-difficult.
The destination is worth getting to, but the road is long and hard. It is not all work and no play, but there is a lot of work.
Original post by thegeek888
St. John's has never received any Law applicants from British-Pakistani's (a heavily under-represented group at Oxford University) in many years. Also, they have only had one Muslim student every so often. So there is a strong chance of being offered a place.
Also, I am using Arbitio online LNAT Preparation Online | Practice Tests and Essays | Arbitio for LNAT preparation and will get a minimum of 28 score. 🙂
I am a mature student too, and will be in my mid 30s by the time I start university.
I know you get 2 colleges interviewing you at Oxford University, but I know St. John's College, Oxford University will be keen to offer me a place. I have already been in touch with the admissions tutor Sarah, and she has been upbeat. 😉
About 40% of applicants for Law at St. John's College, Oxford University are allocated a different college. Last year they received 77 applicants for 8 places. 😧 So there are roughly 10 applicants per place.
Also, I don't want to practice a as barrister for long once qualified. I am much more interested in doing International Business in China and USA as well as the Middle East.
Also, I am using Arbitio online LNAT Preparation Online | Practice Tests and Essays | Arbitio for LNAT preparation and will get a minimum of 28 score. 🙂
I am a mature student too, and will be in my mid 30s by the time I start university.
I know you get 2 colleges interviewing you at Oxford University, but I know St. John's College, Oxford University will be keen to offer me a place. I have already been in touch with the admissions tutor Sarah, and she has been upbeat. 😉
About 40% of applicants for Law at St. John's College, Oxford University are allocated a different college. Last year they received 77 applicants for 8 places. 😧 So there are roughly 10 applicants per place.
Also, I don't want to practice a as barrister for long once qualified. I am much more interested in doing International Business in China and USA as well as the Middle East.
However, I note you state being a mature student and if my calculations are correct would be in your late 30s by the time you enrol at Oxford, assuming you got an offer. This in my view makes the conversation about college prestige and the fixation on it all the more bizarre (not wishing to sound harsh). I studied at both Oxford and Cambridge, at a postgrad college at the former, and postgrad at a mature college for the latter. Here are my thoughts and experiences:
•
When I initially made enquiries about doing an undergraduate degree as a mature student at some of the 'posher' Cambridge colleges like Trinity and St John's, they were receptive. However they were quick to point out that as a mature student, they were 'most likely' to pass my application on to one of the mature colleges.
•
Whilst in theory any college would be happy to receive your application, that mature colleges (Hughes Hall, Newnham, St Edmund's, Wolfson at Cambridge, and Harris Manchester at Oxford), are more specifically set up and geared towards accommodating the needs of mature students at both the academic and pastoral level. It is therefore not unusual for tutors at other colleges to direct strong mature applicants towards said colleges, knowing that their chances of receiving an interview and offer would be higher, and also freeing up a spot for them to take on a school-leaver student. It's not so much age-discrimination but more to also boost the chances of admission for strong applicants. As a mature student you have the pick of all the colleges including the mature colleges (and the single sex ones if you identify as a woman).
•
When being admitted to a college what is also considered is how you will contribute to the academic life of the college (i.e. your grades, ability to graduate with a good grade) but also what will you get out of life at said college. Your extra-curriculars are not taken into account, unlike in say US admissions. BUT it is worth considering whether as a mature student in your late 30s, you would 'fit in' at a colleges whose undergraduate population will on average be in the region of 20 years younger than you at that stage, particularly if you are living in college etc. This may not seem like a big issue now but it can affect one's engagement with college life and especially if social activities at said college are geared towards a certain demographic that you sadly don't fall under. For example at my colleges at Cambridge (where I was a full-time postgrad), and Oxford (part-time postgrad), there would be more activities geared towards families, quieter affairs, fewer bops and raucous drinking events (though we had some of those too).
•
It is worth pointing out that at the postgrad level and as a part-timer student life is very different and college life isn't as impactful as say as an undergraduate (I wasn't living in college at Oxford, had my private place and would work in London during the week, come back to Oxford on weekends etc.). But the reality is as a mature student in your late 30s your needs both academically and pastorally will be very different to that of someone who is just coming up to Oxford or Cambridge for the first time at 18.
So what's the point I'm trying to make here. Well firstly, the prestige of your college has absolutely no bearing here whether on the quality of the degree you receive or your career prospects upon graduation. Yes some colleges are more famous, iconinc and grander than others, that comes with history and wealth. But it is also important to look at the context of your application and what you have to offer to the university and college academically and in turn what do they have to offer to you. Hence should you proceed with your application to either Oxford or Cambridge (I wouldn't at all discount Cambridge in any of this), there is a high chance that even if you applied to say a St John's at Oxford, or a Trinity at Cambridge, and your profile was strong enough to merit at least an interview, that your application might be forwarded to one of the mature colleges.
I read a post not long ago here by an Anon mature student who received an offer to do an undergraduate course at St Edmund's Cambridge, and they wished to decline it to go to Durham instead because they felt St Edmund's was a "less prestigious college", than going to Durham. With all due respect to Durham (and other non-Oxbridge universities, in the UK), this is a silly thing to say. You are applying to Oxbridge for a reason and well let me end by saying this: sure the colleges I went to were far from my first choices and I had a set image of wanting to go to the 'iconic' colleges. That didn't happen for a multitude of reasons (i.e. receiving offers late in the cycle). But you know what years later, that doesn't matter. I still get to say I graduated from both Oxford and Cambridge, it's had no negative impact on my career trajectory and I made friends with fellow students and academics alike across the universities and colleges. If you want to go for St John's then of course you should. But don't be hung up on it because of some notion of prestige.
Final point: I would rather have received an offer and graduated from 'the least prestigious' Oxford or Cambridge college, than have not at all. Why? What do you call an person who graduated from the perceived 'least prestigious' Oxbridge college? An Oxbridge graduate.
End.
Original post by thegeek888
I will be asking to shadow unpaid a barrister at Matrix Chambers, Pump Court Tax Chambers and Doughty Chambers. 😉
You obviously don't know much about Arbitio? However, Arbitio is known to get scores of 28 on average, which is good enough for all universities requiring the LNAT. Furthermore, the admissions process at Oxford University Law faculty uses the LNAT scores to filter out applicants and invite for interview.
Arbitio also helps you with the UCAS Personal Statement, so it is well worth £275 and has 20 exemplar essays and about 20 mock LNAT tests as well.
Also, I am going to be paying for the "Oxford Intro to Law" Online course. As well as shadow at least 1 barrister at a chambers near Chancery Lane. Also, Virtual Work Experience with Slaughter & May, White & Case and Allen & Overy. 🙂
I'm not too concerned about Oxford University, as I could get accepted by one or two of my other choices of LSE, UCL, KCL or SOAS. 😉
Lastly, the Annual Oxford Admissions Statistics 2023 Report on PAGE 24: University of Oxford Admissions Report
Shows that only 88 students admitted were either British Pakistani or British Bangladeshi, so all in all there might be between 30 to 50 or so British Pakistanis out of 3,500 Oxford University students at Undergraduate level. So there is a high chance of being accepted, also many colleges have no British-Pakistanis at their college or have not had a single British-Pakistani applicant in more than decade or two decades or more. So, as long as my LNAT is high, UCAS A-Level grades are A*A*A or more as well as a 'stellar' UCAS Personal Statement with work experience at a barristers chambers and solicitors, I have a great chance of being accepted when I apply in October 2027. 😉
One more thing I have to say: I saw a vivid dream from God Allah almighty last year in December 2023: "I was accepted by Oxford University for Law, and my Head of Centre was delighted."
You obviously don't know much about Arbitio? However, Arbitio is known to get scores of 28 on average, which is good enough for all universities requiring the LNAT. Furthermore, the admissions process at Oxford University Law faculty uses the LNAT scores to filter out applicants and invite for interview.
Arbitio also helps you with the UCAS Personal Statement, so it is well worth £275 and has 20 exemplar essays and about 20 mock LNAT tests as well.
Also, I am going to be paying for the "Oxford Intro to Law" Online course. As well as shadow at least 1 barrister at a chambers near Chancery Lane. Also, Virtual Work Experience with Slaughter & May, White & Case and Allen & Overy. 🙂
I'm not too concerned about Oxford University, as I could get accepted by one or two of my other choices of LSE, UCL, KCL or SOAS. 😉
Lastly, the Annual Oxford Admissions Statistics 2023 Report on PAGE 24: University of Oxford Admissions Report
Shows that only 88 students admitted were either British Pakistani or British Bangladeshi, so all in all there might be between 30 to 50 or so British Pakistanis out of 3,500 Oxford University students at Undergraduate level. So there is a high chance of being accepted, also many colleges have no British-Pakistanis at their college or have not had a single British-Pakistani applicant in more than decade or two decades or more. So, as long as my LNAT is high, UCAS A-Level grades are A*A*A or more as well as a 'stellar' UCAS Personal Statement with work experience at a barristers chambers and solicitors, I have a great chance of being accepted when I apply in October 2027. 😉
One more thing I have to say: I saw a vivid dream from God Allah almighty last year in December 2023: "I was accepted by Oxford University for Law, and my Head of Centre was delighted."
Yet you went to all the trouble of creating and engaging in this thread? You seem to lack an understanding or an insight into how Oxbridge admissions seems to work here. Plenty of people with 'the grades' and high test scores get rejected. It's impossible for you to say at this stage or for anyone including tutors what your chances of admission would be when they don't even have the gathered field to look at, your complete application and with all due respect, you haven't even sat your A-Levels or the LNAT yet.
Oxford should, must, and will do more to improve on diversity but that doesn't equate to you receiving an offer of study by virtue of being the only or one of few British-Pakistani applicants in said cycle. I haven't looked at the stats and frankly I don't have time to do that. But if you were under the impression that your ethnicity was somehow going to get you in the door then I think maybe you have a misunderstanding of what exactly is involved here.
Also "paying for" these admissions services aren't exactly going to make or break your applications. A lot of these resources are available for free online and even the universities have gone to lengths to publishing similar materials to level up the playing field.
I can't tell whether you're either highly motivated, self-confident, obnoxious or perhaps all of the above.
I am trying to kind, and so I suggest that the OP comes across as well intentioned but also naive, prone to over confidence, and apparently reluctant to listen to advice which does not affirm his preconceptions.
OP, I and others here are trying to help you. Please consider the sound advice above about the irrelevance of perceived prestige amongst colleges.
Please note also that even the poorer and less famous colleges still have resources for students to do well and to have fun.
Lastly, to add to sensible comments made above, I make the point that an Oxbridge college is not just some kind of miniature university. A college is not a pay as you go degree shop. A college is a self-governing academic community. The relationship between college and student is a two-way street.
OP, I and others here are trying to help you. Please consider the sound advice above about the irrelevance of perceived prestige amongst colleges.
Please note also that even the poorer and less famous colleges still have resources for students to do well and to have fun.
Lastly, to add to sensible comments made above, I make the point that an Oxbridge college is not just some kind of miniature university. A college is not a pay as you go degree shop. A college is a self-governing academic community. The relationship between college and student is a two-way street.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
I am trying to kind, and so I suggest that the OP comes across as well intentioned but also naive, prone to over confidence, and apparently reluctant to listen to advice which does not affirm his preconceptions.
OP, I and others here are trying to help you. Please consider the sound advice above about the irrelevance of perceived prestige amongst colleges.
Please note also that even the poorer and less famous colleges still have resources for students to do well and to have fun.
Lastly, to add to sensible comments made above, I make the point that an Oxbridge college is not just some kind of miniature university. A college is not a pay as you go degree shop. A college is a self-governing academic community. The relationship between college and student is a two-way street.
OP, I and others here are trying to help you. Please consider the sound advice above about the irrelevance of perceived prestige amongst colleges.
Please note also that even the poorer and less famous colleges still have resources for students to do well and to have fun.
Lastly, to add to sensible comments made above, I make the point that an Oxbridge college is not just some kind of miniature university. A college is not a pay as you go degree shop. A college is a self-governing academic community. The relationship between college and student is a two-way street.
HOWEVER, if you want to boost your chances of receiving an offer from a college that you applied to as your first-choice then perhaps you might want to apply to a college that might be perceived as less oversubscribed (i.e. so that you have some degree of control/say in where you ended up being placed).
But again some of the previous points ring true about college being a two-way street. Admissions tutors have a responsibility to admit students whom they not only believe will thrive academically at the college, but will get the most out of their time there (and indeed at Oxford in general). It benefits neither party to admit somebody who will simply not fit into the college based on those factors.
(edited 1 month ago)
One final point: applying to a "less prestigious" or less oversubscribed college doesn't mean they are easier to get into academically or that their academic standards for admission are somehow lower. They might be 'easier' to get into as a first-choice e.g. Harris Manchester vs Magdalen, but if you were academically a weaker candidate, then applying to HMC or a St Hugh's (sorry had to pick a random college), isn't going to mean you're getting an offer ahead of someone who is an outstanding candidate but that say Magdalen or Merton couldn't accommodate.
Original post by thegeek888
St. John's has never received any Law applicants from British-Pakistani's (a heavily under-represented group at Oxford University) in many years. Also, they have only had one Muslim student every so often. So there is a strong chance of being offered a place.
Also, I am using Arbitio online LNAT Preparation Online | Practice Tests and Essays | Arbitio for LNAT preparation and will get a minimum of 28 score. 🙂
I am a mature student too, and will be in my mid 30s by the time I start university.
I know you get 2 colleges interviewing you at Oxford University, but I know St. John's College, Oxford University will be keen to offer me a place. I have already been in touch with the admissions tutor Sarah, and she has been upbeat. 😉
About 40% of applicants for Law at St. John's College, Oxford University are allocated a different college. Last year they received 77 applicants for 8 places. 😧 So there are roughly 10 applicants per place.
Also, I don't want to practice a as barrister for long once qualified. I am much more interested in doing International Business in China and USA as well as the Middle East.
Also, I am using Arbitio online LNAT Preparation Online | Practice Tests and Essays | Arbitio for LNAT preparation and will get a minimum of 28 score. 🙂
I am a mature student too, and will be in my mid 30s by the time I start university.
I know you get 2 colleges interviewing you at Oxford University, but I know St. John's College, Oxford University will be keen to offer me a place. I have already been in touch with the admissions tutor Sarah, and she has been upbeat. 😉
About 40% of applicants for Law at St. John's College, Oxford University are allocated a different college. Last year they received 77 applicants for 8 places. 😧 So there are roughly 10 applicants per place.
Also, I don't want to practice a as barrister for long once qualified. I am much more interested in doing International Business in China and USA as well as the Middle East.
Funny, I never realised colleges agreed to giving out offers to candidates years before they sat their exams or even applied. The fact an admissions officer has also been named in this thread as somewhat agreeing to this is also deeply concerning.
Original post by King_George_Weah
I am not a lawyer by trade so others might be better qualified to comment on that part. I'm not sure if you already posess a degree but if so then surely going for a PGDL would be a quicker, easier, and less expensive route to qualifying as a lawyer? I cannot comment on the relative prestige of PGDL programmes.
However, I note you state being a mature student and if my calculations are correct would be in your late 30s by the time you enrol at Oxford, assuming you got an offer. This in my view makes the conversation about college prestige and the fixation on it all the more bizarre (not wishing to sound harsh). I studied at both Oxford and Cambridge, at a postgrad college at the former, and postgrad at a mature college for the latter. Here are my thoughts and experiences:
So what's the point I'm trying to make here. Well firstly, the prestige of your college has absolutely no bearing here whether on the quality of the degree you receive or your career prospects upon graduation. Yes some colleges are more famous, iconinc and grander than others, that comes with history and wealth. But it is also important to look at the context of your application and what you have to offer to the university and college academically and in turn what do they have to offer to you. Hence should you proceed with your application to either Oxford or Cambridge (I wouldn't at all discount Cambridge in any of this), there is a high chance that even if you applied to say a St John's at Oxford, or a Trinity at Cambridge, and your profile was strong enough to merit at least an interview, that your application might be forwarded to one of the mature colleges.
I read a post not long ago here by an Anon mature student who received an offer to do an undergraduate course at St Edmund's Cambridge, and they wished to decline it to go to Durham instead because they felt St Edmund's was a "less prestigious college", than going to Durham. With all due respect to Durham (and other non-Oxbridge universities, in the UK), this is a silly thing to say. You are applying to Oxbridge for a reason and well let me end by saying this: sure the colleges I went to were far from my first choices and I had a set image of wanting to go to the 'iconic' colleges. That didn't happen for a multitude of reasons (i.e. receiving offers late in the cycle). But you know what years later, that doesn't matter. I still get to say I graduated from both Oxford and Cambridge, it's had no negative impact on my career trajectory and I made friends with fellow students and academics alike across the universities and colleges. If you want to go for St John's then of course you should. But don't be hung up on it because of some notion of prestige.
Final point: I would rather have received an offer and graduated from 'the least prestigious' Oxford or Cambridge college, than have not at all. Why? What do you call an person who graduated from the perceived 'least prestigious' Oxbridge college? An Oxbridge graduate.
End.
However, I note you state being a mature student and if my calculations are correct would be in your late 30s by the time you enrol at Oxford, assuming you got an offer. This in my view makes the conversation about college prestige and the fixation on it all the more bizarre (not wishing to sound harsh). I studied at both Oxford and Cambridge, at a postgrad college at the former, and postgrad at a mature college for the latter. Here are my thoughts and experiences:
•
When I initially made enquiries about doing an undergraduate degree as a mature student at some of the 'posher' Cambridge colleges like Trinity and St John's, they were receptive. However they were quick to point out that as a mature student, they were 'most likely' to pass my application on to one of the mature colleges.
•
Whilst in theory any college would be happy to receive your application, that mature colleges (Hughes Hall, Newnham, St Edmund's, Wolfson at Cambridge, and Harris Manchester at Oxford), are more specifically set up and geared towards accommodating the needs of mature students at both the academic and pastoral level. It is therefore not unusual for tutors at other colleges to direct strong mature applicants towards said colleges, knowing that their chances of receiving an interview and offer would be higher, and also freeing up a spot for them to take on a school-leaver student. It's not so much age-discrimination but more to also boost the chances of admission for strong applicants. As a mature student you have the pick of all the colleges including the mature colleges (and the single sex ones if you identify as a woman).
•
When being admitted to a college what is also considered is how you will contribute to the academic life of the college (i.e. your grades, ability to graduate with a good grade) but also what will you get out of life at said college. Your extra-curriculars are not taken into account, unlike in say US admissions. BUT it is worth considering whether as a mature student in your late 30s, you would 'fit in' at a colleges whose undergraduate population will on average be in the region of 20 years younger than you at that stage, particularly if you are living in college etc. This may not seem like a big issue now but it can affect one's engagement with college life and especially if social activities at said college are geared towards a certain demographic that you sadly don't fall under. For example at my colleges at Cambridge (where I was a full-time postgrad), and Oxford (part-time postgrad), there would be more activities geared towards families, quieter affairs, fewer bops and raucous drinking events (though we had some of those too).
•
It is worth pointing out that at the postgrad level and as a part-timer student life is very different and college life isn't as impactful as say as an undergraduate (I wasn't living in college at Oxford, had my private place and would work in London during the week, come back to Oxford on weekends etc.). But the reality is as a mature student in your late 30s your needs both academically and pastorally will be very different to that of someone who is just coming up to Oxford or Cambridge for the first time at 18.
So what's the point I'm trying to make here. Well firstly, the prestige of your college has absolutely no bearing here whether on the quality of the degree you receive or your career prospects upon graduation. Yes some colleges are more famous, iconinc and grander than others, that comes with history and wealth. But it is also important to look at the context of your application and what you have to offer to the university and college academically and in turn what do they have to offer to you. Hence should you proceed with your application to either Oxford or Cambridge (I wouldn't at all discount Cambridge in any of this), there is a high chance that even if you applied to say a St John's at Oxford, or a Trinity at Cambridge, and your profile was strong enough to merit at least an interview, that your application might be forwarded to one of the mature colleges.
I read a post not long ago here by an Anon mature student who received an offer to do an undergraduate course at St Edmund's Cambridge, and they wished to decline it to go to Durham instead because they felt St Edmund's was a "less prestigious college", than going to Durham. With all due respect to Durham (and other non-Oxbridge universities, in the UK), this is a silly thing to say. You are applying to Oxbridge for a reason and well let me end by saying this: sure the colleges I went to were far from my first choices and I had a set image of wanting to go to the 'iconic' colleges. That didn't happen for a multitude of reasons (i.e. receiving offers late in the cycle). But you know what years later, that doesn't matter. I still get to say I graduated from both Oxford and Cambridge, it's had no negative impact on my career trajectory and I made friends with fellow students and academics alike across the universities and colleges. If you want to go for St John's then of course you should. But don't be hung up on it because of some notion of prestige.
Final point: I would rather have received an offer and graduated from 'the least prestigious' Oxford or Cambridge college, than have not at all. Why? What do you call an person who graduated from the perceived 'least prestigious' Oxbridge college? An Oxbridge graduate.
End.
Original post by Anonymous #5
Right so if say I or anyone else here were to contact the college and namely Sarah Jones, undergraduate admissions officer for St John's College, and ask her if the college routinely agrees to applicants years in advance that they are "likely" to receive an offer the response would be that the college would confirm this?
Yeah, you're right- it's not the case and OP is surely taking normal, helpful, pleasant advice as some sort of golden handshake. It just doesn't happen this way.
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