USA or Europe?

I don't understand, Gordon Brown recognises China's right to power over Tibet !

Didn't Obama reaffirm relations with Brown?

No but what is possible is an independent Britain which has close ties with either the EU or the USA (which is what this thread is asking, which 'bloc' do we associate ourselves with).

I disagree - we have a well trained army and one that is technologically advanced enough to certainly make any major power hesitate to cross us - this combined with our soft power across the world which means we are likely to be supported by many commonwealth countries and the US (if they aren't the ones attacking us, but lets be honest they won't).

These states still have a similar way of life, they still have the same education system etc. We may have voting power but keeping independence would mean we have complete control over what we do. I mean say the US really pissed off Russia, who would they strike first? Britain would always be in the firing line.
Anyway I don't want to make a huge impact on Capitol Hill - British people should make an impact on Westminster.

You can't just make a statement like that, you can't deny we have our own government and our own legal system etc.

Maybe the union’s future isn't stable but the nations themselves that make up Europe will always be there therefore we can ally. And what are you talking about, seriously? Of course our isolated survival is guaranteed - in a world where trade is more important than guns we really are not under threat. Are you seriously suggesting that all smaller states must become part of a greater power? Because if we MUST secede to the US then surely Ireland must as well, and what about Australia? Surely Nepal must become part of India or China? And do you think that the people want to be citizens of the US? There would be a popular uprising; even from this thread you can see that the vast majority on TSR would prefer to be associated with Europe.

But that is the point no? We DO have the support of the US. We don’t need to become a 51st state to be allies. Even if we didn't have their support we have commonwealth nations. Plus the government recently commissioned the building of two massive air carriers which means, in terms of mobility of our war machine, we would be a lot better off.

Why would we want to? Our education system is still rescuable; in fact it’s not even that bad. Also, although this cannot be taken as fact, I was recently talking to two of my teachers - one of whom has a degree from a US university - and they both said that the HE is better in the UK in terms of undergraduate degrees which is what fundamentally propels key business people, leaders and educationists into leading a successful career here in the UK.

And oh wow our own governor? Gosh sounds wonderful... Oh no wait before hand we would have had our own cabinet, our own prime minister, our own monarch, our own traditions - things which not only set us apart from an increasingly boring and repetitive world but also attract American and Japanese tourists on a massive scale (the traditions).

Yes but the UK has just as many votes as for instance France in the European parliament. On the other hand if we had our laws from the capitol you can be sure that they will be designed to benefit the North American people primarily and not the needs of a fundamentally different nation and culture.

I thought the British press was extremely insulted by the way Brown was treated by Obama? I'm not sure exactly why Brits like Democrats so much. The "special relationship" is not nearly as important to them as it is to republicans.

I don't think Obama is quite as keen on the "special relationship" as Bush was with Britian. Obama's welcoming of Brown was hardly grand nor had much effort been put in, I mean, Obama's gift to Brown was a box of DVDs, I'm suprised he didn't try and give him a wind-up TV and DVD player to watch them on - does Obama know that the little old UK actually has electricy now?

British people scum up to Obama and act like the Americans reclaimed their soul when they elected Obama, but so far from what I can see all of what Obama has done has been supeficial and in my mind he's yet to step up to the plate. I'm starting to get the impression that quite a few Americans are disappointed in who they elected. I think the problem is the media hyped him up to something he could never live up to.

Since Obama's inauguration, his approval rating has been in quite a steady decline. His approval rating started at about 85-90% after inaugaration but it's now down to a more modest 60%, while most Americans approve, he certainly isn't viewed as a super-hero, his approval rating is on par with other US presidents.

We wouldn't be forced to 'adopt their way of life'. Just look at the US - look at the cultural differences between states like Pennsylvania and Florida, or Massachusetts and California, or Texas and Hawaii. The United States has the ability to embrace the United Kingdom and accomodate its cultural differences. Plus, it wouldn't be 'their Preisdent' - it would be our President. We'd have the right to vote as well - plus, with a population of 61 million we would have the electoral college votes of New York, Florida and Texas combined. In other words, we would have a huge impact on Capitol Hill.

I think we should be associated with the USA more. Firstly our culture is heavily influenced by the US, and lets face it USA is great - we should be their far away state, like hawii

We share a language with Australia too, but should we join them? No, because Australia suck at war and what not (no offense to any Australians)

I thought the British press was extremely insulted by the way Brown was treated by Obama? I'm not sure exactly why Brits like Democrats so much. The "special relationship" is not nearly as important to them as it is to republicans.

Sorry to be rude but that's utter crap.

Australia has always been one of the first to back us up in a war. They didn't need to do it in 1899, 1914 or 1939 but they were.

Without them the Japanese would rule pretty much all of the Pacific right now.

I would take Australia over Europe or the United States ANY day of the week.

Mainly because unlike the European states (except for Denmark or Holland) they're willing to use their army to defend themselves, and unlike American soldiers they don't shoot our troops in 'friendly fire' incidents (yeah right).

That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day and I've been awake for 23 hours now.

Obama has already confirmed the 'renewal' of the 'Special Relationship' but in any case, I think we need to adopt some kind of large-scale opt out with the EU - like Norway or Switzerland has done, and maintain a position of general isolationism in world affairs. We don't need an interventionist foreign policy just because we're British.